So does anyone believe in ghosts or aliens?

[Guest]

Yeah, I doubt people here could think I'm any more deranged than I seem now, so I'll say I believe in both. 

 

Ghosts: Probably the most controversial, but the stuff I have witnessed is mind-blowing. What would you call it? Poltergeist activity on command with multiple witnesses? Yeah that! I'm talking gravity defying crazy-ass stuff! I haven't experienced anything in years, but the last was some kind of huge mist with popping multi-coloured lights floating around the hospital waiting room. The other was a strong tobacco smell even though no one smokes in our house. Certainly not like your gas oven trying to light itself back in the day! 

   

Aliens: Why not? That is all. The universe is bloody huge. I saw a light hovering then shoot accross the sky instantly a few years ago. That's it though.

 

I do get laughed at about the ghost stories, but I just think how amazing it was to experience such things I can't explain. Anyone else, or are you the one thinking we are all psychotic? Science knows jack in reality, is my answer. So many mysteries left to solve and most won't be.

[Rebel47]

Not sure I would use the term "believe" for anything I know that anything is possible and the possibilities are endless, I myself have experienced what others could only attribute to encounters with ghosts.

 

Laughing at someone because of their beliefs is what I would call an atrocity and given enough time around people with different beliefs than you (be that aliens, ghosts or even religion) you shall learn to have an open mind and be more accepting of others.

 

That's my thinking anyway.

[EssArrBee]

Relevant XKCD: https://xkcd.com/1235/

 

Everyone probably has some unexplainable story and chalk it up to ghosts.

 

There has to be some kind of aliens out there. Problem is finding them in an infinite universe. To many stars and planets not to have life out there. Even if there is, the distances in space are way to far. 

 

Our biggest problem could be that we're isolated in our part of the universe from all the other life in the universe. That is either a good reason to be terrified about the future or a good reason to be Nihilistic about the future.

 

I think science can explain what people experience, but most people won't except the explanation anyways. Then scientists just stop working on it because no one is going to listen to them anyways. We'll just have to leave it to all the ghost hunter shows that can't produce one viable bit of evidence. 

[Guest]

Not sure I would use the term "believe" for anything I know that anything is possible and the possibilities are endless, I myself have experienced what others could only attribute to encounters with ghosts.

 

Laughing at someone because of their beliefs is what I would call an atrocity and given enough time around people with different beliefs than you (be that aliens, ghosts or even religion) you shall learn to have an open mind and be more accepting of others.

 

That's my thinking anyway.

Well I didn't actually care what people think, but it kind of annoys you a bit when that happens. I mean my house, I'd say was totally 'haunted' for a number of years, but nothing has happened recently. It's like it subsided and got bored with us because we aren't frightened. I'm kind of logical about things and check every possibility. I don't believe in those stupid shows that think they can communicate by radio or whatever else; I think they are a mockery. I don't believe in vampires, werewolves, Chuckie, or anything else like that - at least on our current world.

 

@Ess 

 

Ghosts: Who is that scientist that worked with Heisenberg and believes our energy or consciousness leaves our brains? Basically I think he theorizes that we have souls. I might be trippin' here. I'm also not going to try to document anything when I'm in the middle of pandemonium. Holy hell is it scary and awesome at the same time. Have you ever seen a picture float off a wall and land 5 feet away on a chair? I have and it's terrifying. 

 

Aliens: Yeah very sound thoughts. Do you believe in the alternative universes theory? So technically we are everything and everywhere at the same time - or not at all. Kind of a creepy theory actually.

Edited February 29, 2016 by Guest

[Aiyen]

Sparrow... you are dru... I mean crazy! 

 

Dont ever change! :D 

 

As for the question... ghosts... not so much. If there are effects like that, then I do not think it would have anything to do with what we think when we hear the word ghosts. 

 

As for aliens... I think it would be more amazing if we are alone than the opposite. 

If we are ever going to meet anyone else is a different story entirely. Relativity is a harsh mistress... both good and bad. 

Good because it prevents stuff from finding us, and bad because it prevents us from finding them. 

[MonoAccipiter]

Well, I'm not really sure what I believe in when it comes to ghosts. Not even sure I'll ever be, and I don't see how I would be able to make up my mind about it when it seems perfectly logical to me that there should be things beyond the human capacity for understanding. Being more-than-averagely interested in philosophy, I think that it's pretty strange how much a lot of science attributes to the validity of human observation. 

 

Aliens... I find it unlikely that there aren't any other life forms in such a vast universe, but I'm not too sold on them having visited Earth. Why would these extremely advanced crafts, that theoretically would have the ability to defy what we think of as the laws of physics, keep crashing all the time? Coincidences have a tendency to seem more unnerving than they really should though, and have happened all through history in several different situations. Take Poe's The Narrative of Arthur Gordon Pym of Nantucket and the events transpiring after the Mignonette sank in 1884, both stories, though only the first fictional, ending with a sailor named Richard Parker being eaten by his starving shipmates.

[Guest]

Sparrow... you are dru... I mean crazy! 

 

Dont ever change! :D 

 

As for the question... ghosts... not so much. If there are effects like that, then I do not think it would have anything to do with what we think when we hear the word ghosts. 

 

As for aliens... I think it would be more amazing if we are alone than the opposite. 

If we are ever going to meet anyone else is a different story entirely. Relativity is a harsh mistress... both good and bad. 

Good because it prevents stuff from finding us, and bad because it prevents us from finding them. 

I wish I was drunk then this phenomena would have been perfectly explainable.  I won't even go into the dead cat I saw that had a perfectly linked witness event to go with it. I'll never know how I described the colours that were not present within my vision. That shat me up.  :O_o:

 

That's a good point. It would be even more amazing if we were alone, if not a little disappointing. So you and Ess have been watching Mars Attacks too much lately? 

 

@Mono

 

That's a great stance to have on both things. I just need to get abducted and probed now and my set of experiences are complete! Seriously though, the book was much better than Life of Pi; undeniably so.

Edited February 29, 2016 by Guest

[TechAngel85]

I believe in both and will tell my stories when I'm back in front of my computer.

[z929669]

Ghosts: no way. Need to believe in God to even begin to accept the possibility ...

 

Aliens: Certainly. In an (essentially) infinite universe, there are an infinite number of stars and an infinite number of solar systems and an infinite number of 'habitable' solar systems and an infinite number of Earths ... and an infinite number of alien civilizations ...

 

... no matter how small the probability of their existence. Infinity is infinite, so probability does not even compute.

[Pretendeavor]

Aliens: I do! I'm not sure if there is a way to tell whether the universe is infinite or finite, but the chance of alien intelligent civilizations existing is relatively high considering the amount of potential 'Earths' inside habitable zones of stars like z is saying, even if only accounting for the (finite) visible universe.. look up the Drake equation if you're interested in this kind of stuff. It does lead to the question why we haven't yet found any evidence for the existence of intelligent alien civilizations (the Fermi paradox, interesting material). Intelligent here meaning having developed radio communication. To put that into perspective, we've only been able to send out signals for what.. 50-100 years? Which means signals we sent out only travelled 50-100ly max.. that isn't a lot in the whole scheme of things. I recently followed a minor course in Astrobiology and the field is pretty exciting. I also used that opportunity to ask some astronomers at our uni (not necessarily specialized in astrobiology) if they 'believed', and most of them are convinced extraterrestrial life should exist somewhere purely based on probability.

 

As for ghosts.. I don't believe in those. As long as there are gaps in our knowledge people can believe what they want to believe. Being raised as a christian and now being taught to be skeptical and critical about everything during my studies I find it hard to say what I believe and what I don't believe.. When people straight up ask me 'Do you believe in God?' I have to admit that my answer is that I don't know :s

 

However, I DO think that you should not assign supernatural properties to anything without having looked at more simple and rational explanations first. Like, we rely on our brains to 'produce' what we experience as reality, based on sensory input and compared and integrated with already stored information. This whole process can lead to 'distorted' views in many ways, simple examples being dementia and other neurodegenerative disorders. Or the effects some drugs have on our perception of the world. Or.. dreams! Also, it's very possible to form erroneous memories of events. So I think most of such experiences can be way more easily explained through some physiological or process or another, and therefore such explanations should not be readily discarded in favor of more 'mysterious' explanations. I also think people have a tendency to wánt to believe it's something more.. perhaps some manifestation of invidualism..? Not really sure how to explain this in English.

 

But by the same token you can say that we are limited by our brains in our perception of the world around us.. that thought allows for any kind of explanation and it's probably why people will never agree on subjects like these!

 

But about what MonoAccipiter says about how much science attributes to the validity of human observation.. I think that is the essention of (our) science. Every model we make, every technological development is ultimately limited by our own capabilities because of the simple fact that we created it :P I don't think science can aim at that which goes beyond our understanding. Science can aid us to push our understanding of the world to the limits, and some things that are now considered mysteries might end up within those limits and be explained, while others will forever be in the realm of 'believing'.. or maybe the human brain is the pinnacle of evolution in this particular universe (who can say?) and we will eventually be able to explain everything :P But this is going too deep for me, some philosopher can jump in and invalidate everything I said hehe

Edited March 1, 2016 by Pretendeavor

[EssArrBee]

@Ess 

 

Ghosts: Who is that scientist that worked with Heisenberg and believes our energy or consciousness leaves our brains? Basically I think he theorizes that we have souls. I might be trippin' here. I'm also not going to try to document anything when I'm in the middle of pandemonium. Holy hell is it scary and awesome at the same time. Have you ever seen a picture float off a wall and land 5 feet away on a chair? I have and it's terrifying. 

 

Aliens: Yeah very sound thoughts. Do you believe in the alternative universes theory? So technically we are everything and everywhere at the same time - or not at all. Kind of a creepy theory actually.

Actually, there are some very interesting hypothesis being put forward about the universe itself being alive. That the unknown 90% of the universe may actually be the consciousness of life in the cosmos. Not sure I really buy until I see some more convincing maths in support of it. Lots of scientist through the years have believed some really wacky stuff. Tesla believed a bunch of weird stuff. Newton was actually a religious nutbag and really into occult studies and alchemy. He even translated the Emerald Tablet of Thoth and predicted that the Earth would end after 2060. Luckily, he made most of his major discoveries in math and physics before all that started. 

 

I've gone down the alternative and parallel universe rabbit hole many times. It's a fascinating field of math and physics. I kinda like the idea that there are both universes running parallel to ours, but also there are many alternate versions of each universe that may not be parallel. I was messing with some work centered around multi-dimensional time where moving along the x-axis is what we perceive as time and the y-axis was to move through universes. Universes would be stacked in a way that each one began at each instance, so moving in the positive Y direction would mean travel back in time and the negative Y directions forward in time. I never reconciled it with SR because I couldn't figure out how to manage the effects of time dilation in more than 4 dimensions. 

 

Now here's a really trippy theory that I always found scary. Imagine you encounter a 2 dimensional species. Their entire existence is lived on a plane and they can't observe the third dimension. You observe this 2D species from the z-axis and they can't actually see you and will never know you're there as they can't exist in that dimension. Now knowing that, humans did not evolve to observe this fourth dimension and can't see it whatsoever. Now what if a species that could exist in 4D is viewing us from that fourth axis? We would never know they were there and they could be right next to us. That terrified me the first time I heard it. 

[darkside]

Very interesting topics!

[MonoAccipiter]

But about what MonoAccipiter says about how much science attributes to the validity of human observation.. I think that is the essention of (our) science. Every model we make, every technological development is ultimately limited by our own capabilities because of the simple fact that we created it :P I don't think science can aim at that which goes beyond our understanding. Science can aid us to push our understanding of the world to the limits, and some things that are now considered mysteries might end up within those limits and be explained, while others will forever be in the realm of 'believing'.. or maybe the human brain is the pinnacle of evolution in this particular universe (who can say?) and we will eventually be able to explain everything :P But this is going too deep for me, some philosopher can jump in and invalidate everything I said hehe

That's pretty much what scientific theory is all about, and why dismissing philosophy as a thing of the past, like Stephen Hawking did in one of his later books (which was rather funny, as he made a fairly elementary mistake when attempting to move onto the realm of metaphysics later on in the same book) is rather foolish. Science, and the scientific method as a whole has always been evolving, and even the idea of looking for the exception that invalidates your premise instead of looking for more proof is a rather new idea partially popularized by Karl Popper's work.

 

@EssArrBee: Wouldn't it be possible that a 4D being could cast a 3D shadow, since we cast a 2D one? Seem to remember reading about this somewhere.

 

@Z: I can't help but feel like that's a false dichotomy. I'm not religious myself, but assuming that the only other option is thinking that everything there is to know about the universe is within the grasp of human understanding seems like stretching it too far in the other end again.

[Guest]

@Tech 

 

Looking forward to it. 

 

@Z

 

I'm not religious, but you can't say there isn't a God-like entity that poops out matter to eventually form life. That's a pretty blunt and weird idea, but it's not impossble. Why does a God have to be something that adheres to religious ideology? Don't we ourselves like playing God?

 

@Pretendeaver

 

You see there is always a fine-line drawn. I mean, it is becuase we see the possibility of aliens more likely than ghosts themselves. You have to look at ghosts as something that is not 100% to our ideology. We dream up what aliens could look like, but we don't bother seeing ghosts as anything other than a floaty person with chains dragging around their feet (or similar). Isn't it possible we could do anything and be everything if we leave our bodies as energy matter? That is to say if it is energy. We can only theorize again.

 

@Ess

 

Nice, thanks. I didn't realise Newton was like that, but I knew Tesla was mad. That is very interesting how you mention the dimensions we can see, because that is very creepy indeed. It is very possible that we can only observe these things when a series of events align. When I experienced seeing that animal I mentioned above, I opened my eyes it was just there - and after I blinked it disappeared. Now it didn't move, so I assume my eyes took a snapshot of it in a frozen state. It was like looking at a black and white version of a regular animal, only partially transparent.

 

To try and debunk it, I described it to the person living in the house. They told me it was a animal they looked after (for two weeks) over 40 years ago, but it kept coming back to their house (when alive) as it liked it there. I was also told someone else saw it when staying over 20 years earlier. So yeah, I think that is a very plausible theory there in my opinion. The 2-D part reminds me of the Doctor Who episode Flatline. These beings in the 2-D plane try to study us and eventually start killing people to try and map their anatomy - so they themselves can try and exist in all axis. It's quite a crazy thing to think about all of the possibilities with.

 

Edit: Fixed quite a few text mistakes. Zzz.

Edited March 1, 2016 by Guest

[Aiyen]

If it is there you can measure it. If you can measure it you can theorize it. If you can theorize it you can prove/disprove it. 

 

Not necessarily in that order. That is the real wonder of science imo. 

 

A lot of the problems with meta physics etc. is that there is no tangible way to measure the effects postulated. 

 

All of the great discoveries tend to follow in the wake of someone figuring out how to measure something new. 

A common problem these days is that there are actually more theories than there are measurements to back them up. This is part reason why the whole gravitational wave discovery was such a huge thing.... it eliminated quite a few alternative explanations from the equation... sry had to. 

 

Those measurements, as well as those of the higgs... and whatever else is going to pop up over the new couple of years is most likely going to have some profound implications over the next decade or so. Once someone figures out what the heck to use it for. 

Also now that one know what to look for, it will make it easier to build someone more elegant.... because frankly another huge issue now is that engineering just cant keep up. But that is another story entirely. 

 

There done with the pocket philosophy for now!