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[WIP] Mod Picker


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#106 Mator

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Posted 14 July 2017 - 02:14 PM

1. Different packs may need different installed versions of a mod. Since all of the mods are in MO I usually add a pack name at the end of the mod name (e.g., " - STEP") to indicate which version it is. Does Mod Picker support this or some other (and perhaps better) way to have different versions of a mod or is it at least indifferent to it?

How the mods are installed in MO isn't really something Mod Picker (the websites) has any relevance to. The desktop application would be where something like this would come into practice. Currently the desktop application only installs a single version of mods, which is what most users would want, I think. Your use case is very specific, and I don't think it's something that needs to be built. Most users want to use a single mod list for a single playthrough, and the desktop application enables that.

On the site itself you can just add those mods to each pack and then specify all of the mod options for the pack + base.
 

2. I saw comments about creating Fomods. I was wondering how these would be created? Will there be a tool with UI input that allows creating or editing of Fomods; as one example supporting an "install for the xxx pack" option?

Created? I don't really understand this question. FOMODs have no significance on the Mod Picker website - everything is converted into generic "mod options" within the database, with associations set up so we can emulate how files are installed for the purpose of conflict detection. The Mod Picker Utility installs mods per the mod option selection on the mod list being set up (you can select mod options for each mod in the mod list by clicking the gear by it in edit mode).
 

3. When installing mods that include portions that will be merged (usually patch plugins but sometimes also resources) the installation might need to be different than the standard install if the patch plugins need to be put into a separate mod. Merge Plugins supports copying resources, but it doesn't seem to support making this selective by plugin. Often a patch plugin that will be merged is part of an overall mod that includes multiple plugins and resources, but typically only the patch plugins are merged. The merge in the REGS guide for "Interesting NPCs" is an example of this. It includes some patch plugins and a mod with both plugins and resources. The patch plugins were in most cases initially located along with the rest of a mod.

I don't see a question here. If patches are being merged there should be no need to "copy general assets" during the merge, so the option can be disabled for that merge.
 

4. Dreadfloop gave an example of edits to "Relighting Skyrim" for using xEdit to edit a source plugin vs. creating a patch that included only vanilla records to override onea in RS. With location mods it isn't an either/or situation. There are several examples in the REGS guide of using xEdit to remove sets of records associated with a particular location. I am not aware of any other relatively straightforward way to do this.

Again, I don't see a question here. Are you asking for a way for Mod Picker to automate the removal of certain records from certain ESP files? It's possible, but I don't see it happening any time soon. There are other priorities. Honestly, it sounds to me like what you really need to do is just distribute a modified version of the ESP file for the mod list in question. Get the required permissions from the mod author(s) and either have them add the modified ESP to the mod as a mod option OR create a separate mod with the ESP file.


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#107 Kelmych

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Posted 14 July 2017 - 03:29 PM

How the mods are installed in MO isn't really something Mod Picker (the websites) has any relevance to. The desktop application would be where something like this would come into practice. Currently the desktop application only installs a single version of mods, which is what most users would want, I think. Your use case is very specific, and I don't think it's something that needs to be built. Most users want to use a single mod list for a single playthrough, and the desktop application enables that.

I use multiple versions of a mod frequently for various reasons. When using Mod Organizer all mods are in the left pane and different profiles used for different packs, playthroughs, etc. select from these mods. I don't have multiple copies of MO, one for each pack. My concern would be if MP didn't support installing a mod as part of a pack/modlist and allowing the pack/modlist instructions for that mod to rename it. By the way, what does MP do when a mod in a pack/playlist is already installed in MO? Does it know whether the installation instructions for the mod are the same as those in the pack/modlist being installed?

On the site itself you can just add those mods to each pack and then specify all of the mod options for the pack + base.

I haven't yet found how the mod instructions work and how to add them. I'll continue to look for the description of these.
 

Created? I don't really understand this question. FOMODs have no significance on the Mod Picker website - everything is converted into generic "mod options" within the database, with associations set up so we can emulate how files are installed for the purpose of conflict detection. The Mod Picker Utility installs mods per the mod option selection on the mod list being set up (you can select mod options for each mod in the mod list by clicking the gear by it in edit mode). It wasn't clear to me how the mod instructions work as I mentioned above. Are the instructions entered manually or is there some automation that simplifies the creation of instructions?
 

I don't see a question here. If patches are being merged there should be no need to "copy general assets" during the merge, so the option can be disabled for that merge. The example merge I referenced uses plugins from several mods. For some of these mods only the plugins is used, but for others the assets are also needed. I tried to phrase it as an MP question since the mod installation instructions affect how easy it would be to create the merge after the initial installation is complete, and I don't know the capabilities of the mod installation instructions yet.
 

Again, I don't see a question here. Are you asking for a way for Mod Picker to automate the removal of certain records from certain ESP files? It's possible, but I don't see it happening any time soon. There are other priorities. Honestly, it sounds to me like what you really need to do is just distribute a modified version of the ESP file for the mod list in question. Get the required permissions from the mod author(s) and either have them add the modified ESP to the mod as a mod option OR create a separate mod with the ESP file. I just wanted to provide another example of why this would be done.



#108 Mator

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Posted 14 July 2017 - 07:47 PM

I use multiple versions of a mod frequently for various reasons. When using Mod Organizer all mods are in the left pane and different profiles used for different packs, playthroughs, etc. select from these mods. I don't have multiple copies of MO, one for each pack. My concern would be if MP didn't support installing a mod as part of a pack/modlist and allowing the pack/modlist instructions for that mod to rename it. By the way, what does MP do when a mod in a pack/playlist is already installed in MO? Does it know whether the installation instructions for the mod are the same as those in the pack/modlist being installed?

I haven't yet found how the mod instructions work and how to add them. I'll continue to look for the description of these.

Are the instructions entered manually or is there some automation that simplifies the creation of instructions?

You don't use "instructions" on Mod Picker mod lists, you simply enable the mod options as I instructed in my previous post.

What you have with your setup is unique as a pack author. Most users don't need to or want to install a mod multiple times. Currently, the Mod Picker Utility does detect whether or not the correct mod options are installed. If they aren't it will re-install the mod with the correct options.  However, it will not detect the installation of a mod if the folder name has been changed.  So you could install a mod with the utility, rename the mod in MO, then the next time you run the utility it will not detect it as being installed.  (you could have multiple installs of the same mod in this way)

 

The example merge I referenced uses plugins from several mods. For some of these mods only the plugins is used, but for others the assets are also needed. I tried to phrase it as an MP question since the mod installation instructions affect how easy it would be to create the merge after the initial installation is complete, and I don't know the capabilities of the mod installation instructions yet.

We don't currently have any way to install a particular mod's options in separate folders, but it could be built.

I'd advise you to not worry about merges at this point in time.  I'd also advise you to just not use copy general assets for merges, especially in Mod Picker mod lists, because it's never actually necessary.  It's most useful for authoring.


Edited by Mator, 14 July 2017 - 07:51 PM.

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#109 Kelmych

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Posted 15 July 2017 - 12:39 AM

I realize the questions I asked were about unusual cases vs. what happens most of the time. I just wanted to use these examples to get a better understanding of how Mod Picker works. I wasn't expecting the current MP to be able to handle all of these situations. Thanks for the answers, they were very helpful.



#110 Mator

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Posted 15 July 2017 - 02:41 PM

I realize the questions I asked were about unusual cases vs. what happens most of the time. I just wanted to use these examples to get a better understanding of how Mod Picker works. I wasn't expecting the current MP to be able to handle all of these situations. Thanks for the answers, they were very helpful.

Sure, that makes sense.  If you want you can ask more direct questions and I can give more thorough/in-depth answers.  Feel free to message me on Discord whenever.  :)


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