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BSA extractor or not BSA extractor...

ddsopt

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#1 richardo11

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Posted 02 September 2016 - 10:41 AM

Hei thanks for your work and dedication.

 

One thing i don't find clear. I suppose that changing in MO to be able to extract .BSA's (which as far i know in my years playing Skyrim many mod authors don't recommend) it is for pass their textures through DDSopt, but being that the case, many other mods, like A Matter of Time for example do not need that (I suppose that because in the guide it is not indicated)

 

So, my confusion it is that with that setting in MO (extract BSA) every time i install a mod i am asked if i want to extract the bsa, normally i say not to, but i have had a weird problem with a mod that i have not had ever a problem, AMT, the game didn't load it, even with the mod active in both MO panels.

 

I fiddle with everything to get it work and finally disabling the extractor made it for the game to recognize it.

 

Now i put back the ability to extract because i am in the Falskaar step, but i wonder if this is going to happen with other mods too, that are not that easy to identify as AMT

 

Should I extract all the bsa, disregarding if they gonna go through DDSopt or not? Or should I extract only the DDSpot"et" bsa?

 

Tx


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#2 paul666root

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Posted 02 September 2016 - 11:04 AM

extract all. If there would have been a problem by extracting one of them Neo would have posted about that.


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#3 Bivo

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Posted 02 September 2016 - 05:37 PM

extract all. If there would have been a problem by extracting one of them Neo would have posted about that.

Yey. But Arthmoor on page of your mod say "DO NOT EXTRACT YOUR BSA FILES! Doing so does nothing but cause problems and you will forfeit all expectation of support for this or any other of my mods. Skyrim is designed to load via the ESP+BSA combinations and deviating from that system is the cause of 90% of the issues that come up with mods."

For me, is better not extract anything, if a mod need a DDSOpt, i extract texture, optimizing that and reinstall the mod in BSA with texture optimized in loose files.

Plus , I do not have an SSD , and I see that since no longer extract the BSA files the game did not slow down , the fps are more regular and have reduced crash. This is my experience , of course, everyone does as he is better in your case , just evaluate.


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#4 hishutup

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Posted 02 September 2016 - 05:54 PM

Yey. But Arthmoor on page of your mod say "DO NOT EXTRACT YOUR BSA FILES! Doing so does nothing but cause problems and you will forfeit all expectation of support for this or any other of my mods. Skyrim is designed to load via the ESP+BSA combinations and deviating from that system is the cause of 90% of the issues that come up with mods."

For me, is better not extract anything, if a mod need a DDSOpt, i extract texture, optimizing that and reinstall the mod in BSA with texture optimized in loose files.

Plus , I do not have an SSD , and I see that since no longer extract the BSA files the game did not slow down , the fps are more regular and have reduced crash. This is my experience , of course, everyone does as he is better in your case , just evaluate.

Most of the issues are either user error or mods not getting completely uninstalled.

Loading BSAs is faster than loading loose by a considerable margin.

Not all mods need to be in a BSA, like No Stretching, Modern Brawl Bug Fix or even Dragon Stalking Fix because any mod that contains the files and comes after whether as loose or in a BSA, will override them.

 

When looking at what files need to overwrite what, extracting makes sense but overall its kind of whatever.



#5 Bivo

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Posted 03 September 2016 - 08:51 AM

Most of the issues are either user error or mods not getting completely uninstalled.

Loading BSAs is faster than loading loose by a considerable margin.

Not all mods need to be in a BSA, like No Stretching, Modern Brawl Bug Fix or even Dragon Stalking Fix because any mod that contains the files and comes after whether as loose or in a BSA, will override them.

 

When looking at what files need to overwrite what, extracting makes sense but overall its kind of whatever.

True, the mod you have listed, for example, it is better to extract them especially when there is an unnecessary esp. But for more complex mod or "full of scripts" mod I do not know what 's convenience. Another great modder MannyGT It tends not to unpack the BSA indeed is one thing many times useless , if not harmful . For his mod he does not recommend it. Then evaluate, if it does not create problems continue to do so. I have reduced a lot of crash and lag.


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#6 richardo11

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Posted 03 September 2016 - 11:40 AM

Reading the comments i feel like being left on my own.

I mean, when well know respected modders like Arthmoor of MannyGT have, not just different opinion but completely opposite opinions about how the game reacts with/without BSA's...

 

So. it is like. chose your way and fire up.


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#7 Bivo

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Posted 03 September 2016 - 03:04 PM

Reading the comments i feel like being left on my own.

I mean, when well know respected modders like Arthmoor of MannyGT have, not just different opinion but completely opposite opinions about how the game reacts with/without BSA's...

 

So. it is like. chose your way and fire up.

I'm sorry , maybe I'll explain bad because I do not speak English well . Both, Arthmoor and MannyGT advise not to extract the BSA for their mod , and in general for any other mod. With Manny , who is Italian like me , we talked about it on our Facebook page "Skyrim Modders Italia", and even he did not understand what advantage there would be to unpack the BSA , as Hishtup say in some cases it can be better, like in case there is an unnecessary esp , which only serves to load a few files from BSA (No Stretching, Modern Brawl Bug Fix or even Dragon Stalking Fix is the case). Try eand see if in your Skyrim the differences , in my case not extracting the BSA the game flows more smoothly and with fewer crashes


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#8 paul666root

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Posted 03 September 2016 - 03:13 PM

extracting makes deleting assets easier and not having to extract and archive them back. In SRLE there is a lot of asset removal to preserve other mods


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#9 hishutup

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Posted 03 September 2016 - 06:42 PM

extracting makes deleting assets easier and not having to extract and archive them back. In SRLE there is a lot of asset removal to preserve other mods

If they were left as a BSA and ordered properly, this is not an issue.
However, there may be one or two cases were it is best to extract.
I should note that I used to be a big "extract everything" type, now that I have a better understanding of what does what, I no longer support this idea. The only mods that I extracted are:

  • HD DLC
  • HD Patch
  • Dragon Stalking Fix(loose)
  • Horns Are Forever

There were a few plugins where I opted for the BSA version as I knew there was not going to be any serious conflicting assets, like Burn Freeze Shock Effects.
I do not have a full SRLEX install but that is what I can remember what I extracted. Also, I don't use MO's BSA method as it complicates things a little because BSAs use Mod Order to sort BSAs instead of Plugin Order. 
When Merging plugins, I use the "Build Merged BSA" option because all the files that were in the BSA go back in a BSA which is fantastic for keeping things organized.
 
Extracting for someone like Neo is a must because he has to be aware of what assets need to be overwritten or do not need to be overwritten.
However for the everyday user, not extracting is better because of the performance difference which can be quite large depending on LO. Since the people asking this sort of question are probably coming from SRLE, you should see a pretty big difference depending on your hardware. If I remember correctly, I received roughly about 40% reducing in time with BSAs not extracted with an old mechanical drive.
 
 
 

True, the mod you have listed, for example, it is better to extract them especially when there is an unnecessary esp. But for more complex mod or "full of scripts" mod I do not know what 's convenience. Another great modder MannyGT It tends not to unpack the BSA indeed is one thing many times useless , if not harmful . For his mod he does not recommend it. Then evaluate, if it does not create problems continue to do so. I have reduced a lot of crash and lag.
 

It depends on what the scripts as a file do.
Are they a modified vanilla script that is just a tiny fix? Put in BSA as there may be another that needs to overwrite it for the mod to work.
Are they a modified vanilla script that is crucial to the mods operation? It might be best to have this loose to keep it preserved.
Are they a completely new script? Probably best to have this in a BSA to keep things cleaner. If you need a hotfix for it, you can provide it loose without any issue.
 
I don't believe there is any difference virtually when a script is in a BSA verses loose. 
The method of data streaming may be different but I do not know those specifics. 
You shouldn't observe any difference when it comes to crashes unless the BSA is broken.



#10 raycrios

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Posted 08 September 2016 - 09:48 AM

I'm sorry , maybe I'll explain bad because I do not speak English well . Both, Arthmoor and MannyGT advise not to extract the BSA for their mod , and in general for any other mod. With Manny , who is Italian like me , we talked about it on our Facebook page "Skyrim Modders Italia", and even he did not understand what advantage there would be to unpack the BSA , as Hishtup say in some cases it can be better, like in case there is an unnecessary esp , which only serves to load a few files from BSA (No Stretching, Modern Brawl Bug Fix or even Dragon Stalking Fix is the case). Try eand see if in your Skyrim the differences , in my case not extracting the BSA the game flows more smoothly and with fewer crashes

I think it's a placebo. There is absolutely no ground under the statement that BSA are more stable and make game run smoother than loose files. BSA is the same as loose but just packed in a file and therefor it just loads faster. On SSD, though, the difference is minor.

In the guide it's advised to extract for simplicity I think, so user doesn't have to extract manually specific mods for which some textures or meshes needs to be removed... Also it makes it much easier this way to see what overwrite what in the MO.


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