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Skyrim Realistic Overhaul (by Starac)

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#16 Roogal

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 07:55 PM

http://skyrim.nexusm...fcontentarea'); Might want to check out this. Personally I like most of the SRO textures more then HD-2k but each to there own I guess. Edit: I understand this only shows a small portion but from what I can see in the linked comparison I think SRO is better and if i ever get around to it I'll try to do more comprehensive comparison though uni is killing me at the moment.
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#17 z929669

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 10:04 PM

http://skyrim.nexusm...fcontentarea');

Might want to check out this. Personally I like most of the SRO textures more then HD-2k but each to there own I guess.

Edit: I understand this only shows a small portion but from what I can see in the linked comparison I think SRO is better and if i ever get around to it I'll try to do more comprehensive comparison though uni is killing me at the moment.

This is a very informative link to visual/performance compares. Recommend checking it out for a more comprehensive look. I will post back once I do so.

#18 frihyland

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 10:08 PM

http://skyrim.nexusm...fcontentarea');

Might want to check out this. Personally I like most of the SRO textures more then HD-2k but each to there own I guess.

Edit: I understand this only shows a small portion but from what I can see in the linked comparison I think SRO is better and if i ever get around to it I'll try to do more comprehensive comparison though uni is killing me at the moment.

Nice find, I hope he comes over to the forums and shares his insights.
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#19 z929669

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 12:35 AM

http://skyrim.nexusm...fcontentarea');

Might want to check out this. Personally I like most of the SRO textures more then HD-2k but each to there own I guess.

Edit: I understand this only shows a small portion but from what I can see in the linked comparison I think SRO is better and if i ever get around to it I'll try to do more comprehensive comparison though uni is killing me at the moment.

I checked this out pretty carefully, and here is what I can say:

EDIT: SRHD = "Skyrim HD" ;)

1. All have no more than a vanilla impact on FPS under the bench conditions, which are pretty good and using a mid range box with a high range ATI 6950 (1 Gb) ..EXCEPT SRHD-2k, which has about a 0.5% drop on average (but more FPS variance)

2. SRO is more true to original vanilla textures, and it is superior to Beth HD IMO.

3. SRHD wood textures are just a bit more realistic in terms of the walls panels (more so than vanilla and all others), which are smaller vertical and seem like bilateral log cuts, and it is very unlikely that the largest single pieces of timber would be used for this purpose, as in vanilla/SRO (one would need to section off longitudinal planes from very large tree trunks).

4. SRO/vanilla rock walls are much more realistic than SRHD (which are realistic looking, but look more like raw granite cut straight from the mountain rock). Reason is that SRO/vanilla are worn stones as one might find in creek/river beds, which are much more plausible.

5. SRO rock wall details are much better than vanilla IMO.

6. SRO road is more true to vanilla than SRHD, and I like it just a bit more.

If I had my druthers, I would want SRHD-1k wood walls, but all else 1k-SRO (adding SMIM without any textures).

#20 Roogal

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 03:35 AM

I agree with most of what you said z929669 especially about the rocks as I was thinking the same thing. No mention of HD-2k though which I thought according to the compiler was the current favorite for the next STEP revision? I surprisingly like the textures used from SMIM for the columns of the houses. I also like the look of the wider panels for the walls but your reasoning makes sense about why they are not realistic. The HD-2k tree column textures just look a bit weird too in my opinion with the horizontal lines around the columns and random axe cuts in them. As for serious hd well I think SRO is very similar if not the same base textures. I think SRO is better because it seems to have increased contrast and sharpness which is really noticable on the rocks and trees. You can notice again the sharpness increase on the wolf or bear pelt shown on the interior between these two textures. With the rocks I think the thing that spoils HD2k's rock walls is the fact that the rocks are very angular with sharp planes of cleavage. This could be believable but isn't really since the whole wall looks sanded down to a smooth plane and just doesn't look very three dimensional and hence realistic. If this was real you'd think there would be random sharp outcrops. The river rocks are less likely to have outcrops obviously cause they have been smoothed by the water and it's easy to give them the three dimensional looks because they are round via texture shadows etc.
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#21 z929669

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 10:37 AM

sorry, HD-2k = SRHD-2k (my own acronym)

#22 PatimPatam

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 06:58 PM

Hi there, i've been testing the game following TC last post, using SHD2K and with SRO only overriding landscape loose files (without folders).
Also compared "pure" SRO vs "pure" SHD both in-game and with screenshots.. here's my two cents (using 2K versions, Skyrim 1.4.26 and RCRN legacy):

- LANDSCAPE

Agree that in general SRO landscape textures are the best out there, however after finding a few rough spots while playing i decided to do a more in-depth analysis and actually compared the 50 shared textures between SRO and SHD one by one (using a DSS viewer but also testing in-game).

Checking SRO, from these 50 textures there are about 8 which in my opinion are clearly of inferior quality than the rest. They actually just look like 512 resized textures to me.
Thankfully their SHD counterparts range from good to awesome, so for me it's just a matter of NOT using the following ones from SRO:

frozenmarshlichen01
icefloes
pineforest01
reachmoss01
rivermud
rocks01
rocksedgetrim01
volcanictundradirt02
(of course both the main .dds files and the xxx_n.dds)

EXAMPLE!

SRO rocks01
Posted Image

SHD rocks01
Posted Image

(once in photobucket click to zoom in)

Also there are a few other ones which are not so bad but i still think SHD ones are better, here's the complete list that i think should be deleted (not overwrite SHD):

cavebaseground01
dirt01
dirt02
fielddirtgrass01
fieldgrass01
frozenmarshlichen01
glacierparallax
glacierslab
icefloes
mineralpoolterrace
pineforest01
pineforest02
reachgrass01
reachmoss01
rivermud
rocks01
rocksedgetrim01
volcanictundradirt02
volcanictundrarocks01

I know this may be a bit too much customization (even for a "compiler's advice" note) but it's what works best for me, and while testing in-game they actually combine very well (there isn't a "clash" of styles). I think this is a pretty special case, as we are talking about the 2 biggest texture replacers you can find and these particular textures are probably the ones that have a bigger visual impact.

- REST (DUNGEONS, CITIES, ETC)

Haven't tested them in detail, agree with TC that SRO textures mostly look like re-sharpened vanilla ones, but for me it's still an improvement, and there are LOTS! So instead of ignoring all of them i would put the SRO non-landscape textures at the beginnig of STEP 2-B1 (or at the end without override).

Would be nice if TC or someone else could test these settings (specially the LANDSCAPE bit) and let us know what he/she thinks!


Salut!
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#23 z929669

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 01:11 AM

Thanks for the insights PP. Since these are the big tex packs, I think it is worth a detailed look to find the best combo of all packs. Using WB, it should be simple to create the ideal(s) and use a BCF to produce the desired output.
FYI

Use the Compressonator (AMD) for best texture viewing/compare (IMO). This allows view of two textures side x side with diff in middle at all mip levels. I generally look at the first 2-3 mips, since I have sometimes found that top levels can be quite different from lower.

#24 Starac

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 09:11 AM

New version 1.1 is up, with also 1024 available.

I've tested it and had to notice most of the non-landscape textures *look* just upscaled and resized.

here a comparison between STEP + new full SRO 1.1 and STEP (upcoming 2.1) + only the old SRO version landscape, non other textures:

STEP 2.1 + old SRO ONLY-landscape (1024):

http://imageshack.us...3100250537.jpg/

STEP 2.1 + FULL-SRO v1.1 (1024):

http://imageshack.us...3114523540.jpg/

You draw your conclusions about the SRO 1.1 update and what to take from it :thumbsup:

Tell me what you think !

TC


First of all i want to say hello to members of this community.

Btw, i'm a creator of Skyrim Realistic Overhaul mod. And i want to give some critics and advices based on my experience and ideas. I'm gonna probably sound a little bit harsh, but that doesn't mean that i disrespect anyone.

I also want to say that i like idea behind this, to create some compilation of the best available mods.

First, I want to criticize The Compiler.
Nhf, but you sound to me like an unexperienced modder. It's true that i have used some architecture vanilla textures, but as a base, to create even better textures. You create high-res texture and blend it with vanilla, with overlay or some other blending technique. It depends what type of texture is in question. Also this requires changing of normal maps, which i also did. In this way details are increased and it is preserved original look and design of the texture. This is very important.

Why it is important to preserve original look and design. Simply because vanilla textures are created by professionals. They fit Skyrim perfectly.
One example is Markarth stone floor where in Skyrim HD this texture doesn't fit with other rock texture. In my mod it fits perfectly because design is 100% the same, while details are way better.

Vanilla textures are beautiful. Only problem is that they are low res and to much resized in some cases, because of consoles. 512x512 and 256x256 res is way to low for todays standards and PCs. If someone can drastically increase quality of vanilla textures, that's the way to go! That's my goal.

It is ok to listen some peoples ideas for this mod, but in the same time this can be bad.
Many of them aren't modders, or are inexperienced modders, or don't have any sense for this kind of art, etc. I'm saying this because modding isn't just changing textures to look different. It's much more then this.
Also i don't know how much this idea of mixing mods with similar content is good? My textures and Skyrim HD textures are pretty much different in design, color, and quality. Also SHD textures are to much different from vanilla. Some can be mixed, but very small number.

To others:
It is impossible to talk about mod looking at the screenshots. You must try it and see how textures blend, are they detailed enough, do they fit the game, how they look at different weather types, are normal maps intensive enough, etc.

Now, i hope this mod will become something big.

Thanks and respect.
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#25 Mardread

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 01:03 PM

Hello Starac, I am assuming you have read the whole thread and for that I am grateful that you have approached this the way you did. It may seem like a bash, but it is not. Your work has been a big part of the STEP community since the beginning (which really wasnt that long ago). The idea basically is to create the best environment we can for skyrim while staying close to vanilla as possible. You get the idea as your textures are very close to vanilla. While I have used a good portion of your textures from your previous update, your latest update is humongous. There are a lot of mod authors around and some of them actually do have better looking textures than some of what you have presented to us. That is an opinion though. I am pretty sure that not everyone shares that point of view and this is a consensus of thoughts on what looks appropriate in game and what blends well. While your mod does offer great value to people who want to find a one stop shop for everything, that is enough for them. For the enthusiast though, which I believe most of everyone here is, we like to go through and pick bits and pieces from every authors work and then apply them to our own games. I cannot tell you how many times I have changed mountain textures in game because they just didnt look right. Or how many times I have changed road textures because blending was wrong. You cannot use stonewalls from one texture pack and the a stonewalltop from another because they do not blend properly. The process goes on and on. It just boils down to what the individual believes to look good and then voice their opinions. I have not gone through your entire pack yet. I am actually very pleased with my last installation and do not want to change it very much. I have a list of textures though that I look for, such as the road textures. As I have said in the past to many people on the Skyrim Nexus forums, this community is just a compilation of ideas and thoughts from many members and TC's work presents those thoughts to the Skyrim player that wishes to enhance their game. It is not the definitive answer to everything and people have different opinions about what looks good to them or what content they choose to add to their games. Not everything that is presented should be used and it is ok to disagree with the project. You can add and take away what you want. I personally use UNP with a CBBE skin texture applied. I think it looks much better than XCE's characters. But that is a matter of opinion and one I am sure I share with some other folks, but not everyone. The same can be said about your textures too. I am not a modder, though I have tried in the past. I dont have the technical know how to do the job right. So I appreciate all the work that has been done by authors who care (unlike those that just add vanilla textures to their packs to make them look bigger than they actually are). There are some bad authors out there and I am sure you know a few of them.
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#26 Starac

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 02:25 PM

Hello Starac,

I am assuming you have read the whole thread and for that I am grateful that you have approached this the way you did. It may seem like a bash, but it is not. Your work has been a big part of the STEP community since the beginning (which really wasnt that long ago). The idea basically is to create the best environment we can for skyrim while staying close to vanilla as possible. You get the idea as your textures are very close to vanilla.

While I have used a good portion of your textures from your previous update, your latest update is humongous. There are a lot of mod authors around and some of them actually do have better looking textures than some of what you have presented to us. That is an opinion though. I am pretty sure that not everyone shares that point of view and this is a consensus of thoughts on what looks appropriate in game and what blends well.

While your mod does offer great value to people who want to find a one stop shop for everything, that is enough for them. For the enthusiast though, which I believe most of everyone here is, we like to go through and pick bits and pieces from every authors work and then apply them to our own games. I cannot tell you how many times I have changed mountain textures in game because they just didnt look right. Or how many times I have changed road textures because blending was wrong. You cannot use stonewalls from one texture pack and the a stonewalltop from another because they do not blend properly. The process goes on and on.

It just boils down to what the individual believes to look good and then voice their opinions.

I have not gone through your entire pack yet. I am actually very pleased with my last installation and do not want to change it very much. I have a list of textures though that I look for, such as the road textures.

As I have said in the past to many people on the Skyrim Nexus forums, this community is just a compilation of ideas and thoughts from many members and TC's work presents those thoughts to the Skyrim player that wishes to enhance their game. It is not the definitive answer to everything and people have different opinions about what looks good to them or what content they choose to add to their games. Not everything that is presented should be used and it is ok to disagree with the project. You can add and take away what you want.

I personally use UNP with a CBBE skin texture applied. I think it looks much better than XCE's characters. But that is a matter of opinion and one I am sure I share with some other folks, but not everyone. The same can be said about your textures too.

I am not a modder, though I have tried in the past. I dont have the technical know how to do the job right. So I appreciate all the work that has been done by authors who care (unlike those that just add vanilla textures to their packs to make them look bigger than they actually are). There are some bad authors out there and I am sure you know a few of them.

Now, you have said that my work isn't much better then others. And i heavily disagree, especially when you consider size of this mod. It is by far the biggest. There are some textures which i will improve. But later.
Of course, that's your opinion and i respect it. But i more respect opinion from some experienced modder, like Brumbek (SMIM author) for example. He is fascinated with this mod.

Actually what surprised me is reaction that these are just upscaled and resized vanilla textures. That's not true.
Experienced modder should notice this instantly.

Nhf, again.
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#27 z929669

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 03:13 PM

Thanks for weighing in Starac. Always good to have the mod author provide inside details that others may not be aware of. First off, I recognize SRO as being most true to vanilla AND superior to vanilla (including HD). I also agree with your approach and general philosophy. The points where I differ with your opinion are twofold: 1. Beth has done an amazing artistic job with Skyrim. But they certainly DID NOT get everything right, as some of their textures and meshes are just plain shabby or inaccurate. (this is why Brumbek and you have so many admirers ;)). SRO improves upon the vanilla style by adding better detail, but in some rare cases, an improvement on vanilla requres that a texture AND its mesh be thrown away and redeveloped from scratch (interior wood walls are a good example IMO). 2. Modders come in many flavors. Some specialize in aesthetic improvements (e.g., texture/mesh art) and others work with game behavior (e.g., scripting/programming), so I assume that you argue that the former are the only group really qualified to properly judge the work of graphics modders. I could not disagree more. The best critics of ANYTHING are often not crafters of that thing (e.g., movie/food/art critics). A good game-art critic need only have a good eye and attention to detail... nothing more. Non-modding critics can actually be better judges of final product than other modders, as the former are not biased by the understanding of the effort required to achieve the result. While effort paid is admirable, it may have no bearing on the result. Sometimes the easiest and fastest method can achieve the best result, but it may be best not to bias the critics with the methods used or this can detract from the result. Does one need to be an automotive manufacturer to judge the best-looking car? I think mixing texture packs provides a viable solution to achieving the optimal result. I also think that mod users have a lot to offer mod creators. Cheers, and thanks for the great texture pack :thumbsup:

#28 EisDrache

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 05:07 PM

Coulden't agree with you more zMan Just cuz your not a modder dosen't mean you don't know how to critique certain things like look at movie or game reviewers. Do any of them make games or movies no but they can still do very nice and proper reviews and actually mostly i woulden't trust reviews directly from other modders cuz most of them will show biased opinions favoring there work over others. No offence here Starac but like you where doing in your posts above you where trying to show biased opinions on your work. I know your just trying to back up your work and all that and i completely agree one should but to sum up what you said it looks like your saying random peoples opinions that arn't modders don't count and if your look properly they will see your mod is Superior which i have to say your mod is very good in some ways and also lacking in others as others in the forum have already stated. But what i don't think you realize is if you take the highest detail parts of all the good most ]vanilla friendly tex/mesh mods it will all look like it suits the game cuz all the detail is the same and dosen't really matter if they have changed the texture a little bit its when you have high detail and lower detail mods mixed vanilla friendly or not thats when you start to notice differences and just dosen't look right Me personally i use a mix of your mod SRO and SHD and a few others for the highest detail i can use with decent frame rate and to me and a few others my/there game still looks vanilla or so close to it that you can't even tell. But i have to say your mod is still very good and i know alot of hard work has gone in to it thanks for that and keep it up
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#29 Starac

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 09:00 AM

Thanks for weighing in Starac. Always good to have the mod author provide inside details that others may not be aware of.

First off, I recognize SRO as being most true to vanilla AND superior to vanilla (including HD). I also agree with your approach and general philosophy. The points where I differ with your opinion are twofold:

1. Beth has done an amazing artistic job with Skyrim. But they certainly DID NOT get everything right, as some of their textures and meshes are just plain shabby or inaccurate. (this is why Brumbek and you have so many admirers ;)). SRO improves upon the vanilla style by adding better detail, but in some rare cases, an improvement on vanilla requres that a texture AND its mesh be thrown away and redeveloped from scratch (interior wood walls are a good example IMO).

2. Modders come in many flavors. Some specialize in aesthetic improvements (e.g., texture/mesh art) and others work with game behavior (e.g., scripting/programming), so I assume that you argue that the former are the only group really qualified to properly judge the work of graphics modders. I could not disagree more. The best critics of ANYTHING are often not crafters of that thing (e.g., movie/food/art critics). A good game-art critic need only have a good eye and attention to detail... nothing more. Non-modding critics can actually be better judges of final product than other modders, as the former are not biased by the understanding of the effort required to achieve the result. While effort paid is admirable, it may have no bearing on the result. Sometimes the easiest and fastest method can achieve the best result, but it may be best not to bias the critics with the methods used or this can detract from the result. Does one need to be an automotive manufacturer to judge the best-looking car?

I think mixing texture packs provides a viable solution to achieving the optimal result. I also think that mod users have a lot to offer mod creators.

Cheers, and thanks for the great texture pack :thumbsup:

This is primarily console game with console textures and meshes. That's why they didn't get everything right. Don't forget this.

You can easily make better meshes to look exactly like vanilla, and put better texture on it. Your point make no sense.

You can not judge someones work if you know nothing about it. You can say i like this or that.

Some people would love to see Skyrim without snow (there was an request on Bethesda forum for this mod). They don't like snow. That's not normal.
Now, people like this one can not judge.

Some modders have put scorched/cracked land texture on the bottom of the river, or totally different type of leafs below Aspen tree. Below this tree should be Aspen leafs. This is case with Skyrim HD. And these are just some examples.
Modders like this can not judge.

You understand my point.

Concerning my mod, on Nexus forum about 98% of comments were positive. But from people who actually tried this mode.
Here i see negative comments from people who don't have this mod at all, or have installed only part of it.

I also mix other mods with mine. Isokus water textures for example. Great mod.
Also Vurts flora, except Pine barks. And of course Brumbeks SMIM. These are great mods as a whole.

Now Skyrim HD is mixed bag, average textures, some very out of place. I like some wood textures and Glaciers.
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#30 frihyland

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 01:11 PM

Thanks for the comments Starac I hope you will come back and comment on other mods such as WATER, Vurts Flora, and SMIM, Skyrim HD and any other mods you really like or hate. I intend to do a complete testing of SRO myself this week so can't comment other than to say I have loved every version so far.
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