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Skyrim Realistic Overhaul (by Starac)

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#31 MontyMM

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 01:17 PM

Could we steer away from insulting speculation about other modders inexperience or laziness? Positive and friendly discussion that respects subjective differences is the way forward, I think.
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#32 GraPhiXJuNkiE

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 01:19 PM

This is def an interesting thread. Would love to comparisons with pics as well. Also, throwing Serious HD in the mix would be great too. Interested in that one, but not sure if textures are the same as vanilla or close to vanilla...
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#33 Starac

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 01:33 PM

Could we steer away from insulting speculation about other modders inexperience or laziness? Positive and friendly discussion that respects subjective differences is the way forward, I think.

This maybe looks insulting, but from your point of view.

Thanks for the comments Starac I hope you will come back and comment on other mods such as WATER, Vurts Flora, and SMIM, Skyrim HD and any other mods you really like or hate.

I intend to do a complete testing of SRO myself this week so can't comment other than to say I have loved every version so far.


SRO is not finished yet.

Well, i can give some advices or suggestions. But this is not my mod. I have created my compilation :)
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#34 MontyMM

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 02:17 PM

[quote name=''Starac' pid='1575' dateline='1333909988']This maybe looks insulting' date=' but from your point of view.[/quote']If Nebula said your mod was a "mixed bag", because you were perhaps too inexperienced or lazy to make anything better, you wouldn't be insulted?
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#35 EisDrache

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 02:29 PM

Sorry Starac I know my punctuation sucks. Sometimes i just get carried away with typeing and just totaly forget about it. I will have to agree with you about the console thing. It just ruins the PC gameing experience. How they have to make it more noob friendly and since the consoles are always behind the times they have to use low detail textures because the consoles can't handle what the PC can not even close. I just wish it was like it was years ago when they made games for PC and then dumbed it down and lowered the quality for consoles.
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#36 stoppingby4now

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 08:26 PM

@Starc Thanks for taking the time to come over and share your thoughts. However, I would kindly ask that instead of insulting other modders and complaining about how "others" judge textures, that you start a more constructive discussion about how you would evaluate textures. I know some of the earlier comments in this thread were against images that didn't look quite right to me having used SRO for awhile now. I think that was a fluke. Regardless, there will always be those that have their own opinion on what looks good to them.

#37 Starac

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 05:40 AM



This maybe looks insulting but from your point of view.

If Nebula said your mod was a "mixed bag", because you were perhaps too inexperienced or lazy to make anything better, you wouldn't be insulted?



No, i wouldn't be insulted. It is very hard to insult me especially without something concrete.

Now, the fact is that Nebula can't say this.

And i didn't insult him. I have no reason to do this? I said MAYBE he is just this or that. Big difference.

I don't like to insult people.

@Starc
Thanks for taking the time to come over and share your thoughts. However, I would kindly ask that instead of insulting other modders and complaining about how "others" judge textures, that you start a more constructive discussion about how you would evaluate textures.

I know some of the earlier comments in this thread were against images that didn't look quite right to me having used SRO for awhile now. I think that was a fluke. Regardless, there will always be those that have their own opinion on what looks good to them.


I was already constructive. But as always some people tend to perceive my statements in a wrong way.
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#38 MontyMM

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 06:47 AM

Hmm... I might be tempted to suggest a few things, with MAYBE appended to them, safe in the knowledge that no harm will be done. I rather fear that it might not be quite so simple...
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#39 stoppingby4now

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 10:32 AM

I was already constructive. But as always some people tend to perceive my statements in a wrong way.

You did raise some good points when it comes to creating a texture pack that I have not thought about. However, if you had followed the early discussion in this thread, you would realize that the original images were being questioned as to how accurately they were portraying SRO.

In any case, your approach to being constructive could use some work. While I understand that an artist/modder probably sees things differently than most, not everyone shares the same insight. And most people here do realize that pictures are not the most accurate way to portray the greater beauty that can be had in Skyrim. But pictures are the fastest way to get first impressions, and doesn't make them any less valid.

If you want to help folks, continue to educate them, rather than criticizing them for not seeing things as you do, which is the opposite of being constructive.

#40 Starac

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 12:18 PM


I was already constructive. But as always some people tend to perceive my statements in a wrong way.

You did raise some good points when it comes to creating a texture pack that I have not thought about. However, if you had followed the early discussion in this thread, you would realize that the original images were being questioned as to how accurately they were portraying SRO.



In any case, your approach to being constructive could use some work. While I understand that an artist/modder probably sees things differently than most, not everyone shares the same insight. And most people here do realize that pictures are not the most accurate way to portray the greater beauty that can be had in Skyrim. But pictures are the fastest way to get first impressions, and doesn't make them any less valid.



If you want to help folks, continue to educate them, rather than criticizing them for not seeing things as you do, which is the opposite of being constructive.




I have already said that screens are bad example.

Now, criticizing can be helpful. In this case it is.

And look, STEP is not my mod. I don't wish to tell anyone what to put inside.
I did suggest some ideas and mods. That's it.

Mods take to much time.
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#41 z929669

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 02:08 PM

Starac,

Thanks again for contributing your insights. It may be that we are wrestling with slight language and cultural barriers here. Nevertheless, I don't think that we need say anything more about subjective opinions concerning approaches to communication. We appreciate your input and feedback and look forward to more of this from you and other mod authors. Again, your insights are appreciated.

@The Community
As long as we all can remain tolerant and avoid taking things personally, perceptions of insult or offense should be easily deflected or ignored.

Thanks for your cooperation :thumbsup:

#42 MontyMM

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 04:10 PM

I don't quite agree on this Z, but I'll do as you ask if you consider this beneficial to the project. Should Nebula ever join the discussion here, I just wanted to put on record that I wasn't comfortable with certain comments, and not impressed by fallacious arguments from authority. I'll stay off this frequency now.
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#43 Starac

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 08:27 AM

I will give you just one example with "riverbededge" texture. It is a texture with big river coast stones. This texture is very important because it fits river area perfectly. So it was imperative for me to make new much better looking texture, but to look practically the same as vanilla. This was a process of combining many photos/textures, cutting stones/materials from them, putting these materials in one texture, designing to look like vanilla, and finally painting additional details. This was texture with many layers and i have spend more then 20 hours to finish it. That's why it looks so good. Nebula texture is just seamless stock photo, and totally out of place. This can be created within 20 minutes. Now I know that it is not simple to create texture like this one, and that it takes time end energy. Because of this it is funny to read some comments from people who simply don't understand this. I hope that this will clear some things a little bit.
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#44 MontyMM

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 01:20 PM

Nope, sorry Z – not having that. @Starac At no point have I made any judgement of you, or criticized you personally, I just asked politely if you could avoid insulting speculation. I’ve worked in a number of countries, including a spell with a tribal culture, and I can assure you that the statement, “Your work is inferior, possibly because you are incompetent or lazy, or something else,” would have a remarkably consistent reaction across the cultural and linguistic spectrum. The reasons why you make this speculation are irrelevant - it is unfounded connotative rhetoric in any language. Your general argument is that you have greater knowledge and understanding in this matter than others, and therefore they cannot judge, whereas you can. That is a logical non sequitur, and is no more a matter a personal opinion than an arithmetic error. An argument from authority is inductive, and at best could be a matter of probability, yet you make deductive conclusions. That is simply incorrect. Your last response, attempting to support your argument by suggesting that I am immature and my lack of knowledge is funny, contains the same flaw as criticizing Nebula’s work by implying his personal failings. Ad Hominem; a fallacious argument. Please do note that I have still made no judgement or comment on you personally, this is purely a counter argument to the statements you have put forward. NHF.
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#45 z929669

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 02:18 PM

Nope, sorry Z – not having that.

@Starac
At no point have I made any judgement of you, or criticized you personally, I just asked politely if you could avoid insulting speculation. I’ve worked in a number of countries, including a spell with a tribal culture, and I can assure you that the statement, “Your work is inferior, possibly because you are incompetent or lazy, or something else,” would have a remarkably consistent reaction across the cultural and linguistic spectrum. The reasons why you make this speculation are irrelevant - it is unfounded connotative rhetoric in any language.

Your general argument is that you have greater knowledge and understanding in this matter than others, and therefore they cannot judge, whereas you can. That is a logical non sequitur, and is no more a matter a personal opinion than an arithmetic error. An argument from authority is inductive, and at best could be a matter of probability, yet you make deductive conclusions. That is simply incorrect.

Your last response, attempting to support your argument by suggesting that I am immature and my lack of knowledge is funny, contains the same flaw as criticizing Nebula’s work by implying his personal failings. Ad Hominem; a fallacious argument.

Please do note that I have still made no judgement or comment on you personally, this is purely a counter argument to the statements you have put forward. NHF.

No problem. There is a civil and valid dialogue that you (others?) and Starac are engaged in, so I do not wish to impose myself in any manner other than to ask that it be continued in the "General Discussion" > "Non-STEP Related" forum wherever/whenever it detracts from the topic of SRO explicitly :whistling: ... just in case this draws a bigger audience.



@ Starac,
If you wish to continue this debate, please feel free to do so on a new thread in the other forum. Otherwise, we look forward to any other input you might have regarding SRO as it evolves or in response to others on that topic.

@ The Community
Anyhone feel free to open up a doalogue in the general forum RE this topic or anything else "off topic" that does not logically fit within the context of the other available forums.

Cheers,
z



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