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Dynamic Distant Objects LOD - DynDOLOD 2.27

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#196 dunc001

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 11:43 AM

It loads the tempoary cells that are defined in the Tamriel worldspace. AFAIK the temporary cells defined to the child worldspace with the same coordinates do not matter at this point. The temporary cells of the child worldspace are only loaded when entering the child worldspace, superseding the temporary cells of the Tamriel parent worldspace.

 

The persistent cells of all child worldspaces are always loaded together with the persistent cell of the parent worldspace. They seem to act like one and the same.

 

Crash fixes is not reporting a problem with a nif? Then maybe a deleted record or a navemesh problem. If the crash is that reproducible, you should be able to determine the coordinates of a handful of cells that attach when the CTD occurs. Find them in xEdit with CTRL+SHIFT+F cell finder, then have a look at plugins that change them. Remove those one by one. Once you found a plugin, you could have a look at the references and other records in those cells, or the overwrite cell record themselves. You get the idea.

 

Only if all that fails to find something would I consider looking at the cells in the childworldspace, however unlikely it seems. I would still check, because more often than not, these things are not always what one believes them to be...

So to extrapolate from what you are saying, presumably as I can get right to the cell boundaries in the Tamriel worldspace, if both the Tamriel and WindhelmWorld persistent cells load together they're not going to hold the error as they will have been loaded a long time before I get to within half a cells distance from the walls?  But if it is also the case that the WindhelmWorld temporary cells only load if you are inside the city, and the Tamriel temporary cells only load if you are outside the city why does the crash persist both inside and outside the city?

 

It is 100% repeatable.

 

There is no Crash Fixes mesh warning, and one of the first things I did was to run everything in meshes/architecture/windhelm through NifHealer which reported no errors.

 

I have checked different times of day and different weathers to rule them out.

 

And as far as I can tell it is every cell containing Windhelm as per the area within the red lines in the image above.  So I need to check through all of those cells presumably (both in Tamriel and WindhelmWorld?)?


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#197 dunc001

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 04:43 PM

Also, I don't know if this is significant or not but I just checked the crash fixes log and the game is crashing with an exception address of 0x0. Is that OOM and if so why only in Windhelm?
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#198 sheson

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 05:14 PM

So to extrapolate from what you are saying, presumably as I can get right to the cell boundaries in the Tamriel worldspace, if both the Tamriel and WindhelmWorld persistent cells load together they're not going to hold the error as they will have been loaded a long time before I get to within half a cells distance from the walls?  But if it is also the case that the WindhelmWorld temporary cells only load if you are inside the city, and the Tamriel temporary cells only load if you are outside the city why does the crash persist both inside and outside the city?
 
It is 100% repeatable.
 
There is no Crash Fixes mesh warning, and one of the first things I did was to run everything in meshes/architecture/windhelm through NifHealer which reported no errors.
 
I have checked different times of day and different weathers to rule them out.
 
And as far as I can tell it is every cell containing Windhelm as per the area within the red lines in the image above.  So I need to check through all of those cells presumably (both in Tamriel and WindhelmWorld?)?


Correct, the persistent cells of Tamriel and the child worlds load the moment when you enter Tamriel or any of the child worlds.

Maybe whatever the cause exists in both wordspaces, or things other than references (navmeshes maybe, I don't know much about them) are shared across child and parent world. Maybe it is about something that only loads when the area becomes active, regardless of worldspace.
I usually only deal with simple references and LOD, not with NPC, Quests etc so i can't say much about that.

If the crash is that repeatable, it could be quick to narrow down. To troubleshoot, consequently remove everything that does not cause the crash until you are only left with the thing(s) that causes it.
So, remove every mod and plugin that is not near the problematic area, while the the crash still happens, keep removing plugins changing the area one by one. If the crash goes away, enable the plugin again and remove another.

Once you are left with only vanilla DLC and one plugin and still have the crash, use xEdit to remove worldspaces, then entire cells, then the content of the last remaining cell. The 50:50 approach works well. Remove 1/2 of data. If crash went away, go back one step and remove the other half and so on.
The goal is to keep the data/record that causes the crash, until nothing else is left.
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#199 zilav

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 12:52 AM

Could be the old known corrupt spawn problem http://forums.bethso...pt-spawn-point/

You can use Alt+F3 worldspace browser in xEdit to quickly navigate using the map of a worldspace (right click on the map to focus on a cell).


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#200 dunc001

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 04:34 AM

Maybe whatever the cause exists in both wordspaces, or things other than references (navmeshes maybe, I don't know much about them) are shared across child and parent world. Maybe it is about something that only loads when the area becomes active, regardless of worldspace.
I usually only deal with simple references and LOD, not with NPC, Quests etc so i can't say much about that...

 

 

Could be the old known corrupt spawn problem http://forums.bethso...pt-spawn-point/

You can use Alt+F3 worldspace browser in xEdit to quickly navigate using the map of a worldspace (right click on the map to focus on a cell).

Thanks both for the replies.  I actually got to the issue last night (well, this morning at about 4am if truth be told!) after three days of searching!  By disabling plugins in binary fashion I narrowed it down to one large merge (42 plugins).  It was further complicated by the fact that on first load on a new game with the plugin enabled there was no crash, it was only after saving and reloading that the crash occurred so I went through the whole process several times discarding this plugin initially as it didn't seem to be the cause!  Going through every plugin in the merge and checking all the Tamriel/WindhelmWorld cells didn't reveal anything.  The merge however did also contain Snow Shader Fix - http://www.nexusmods...im/mods/51495/? - which whilst having no direct edits in Windhelm does, well, snow right!  Checking the mod OP there is mention of disappearing walls on the palace but nothing else, however checking comments reveals the answer to the riddle:

 

6xdv3Zy.png

 

So nothing to do with LOD, navmesh, NPCs or anything else I spent hours trawling through.  Just a bloody snow shader/parallax mesh incompatibility that I found almost by accident!

 

Thank you as always for the willingness to assist, much appreciated!


Edited by dunc001, 11 August 2017 - 04:36 AM.

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#201 Jabrute

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Posted 21 August 2017 - 03:24 PM

Ok, I have an odd situation, and I am looking for a hopefully easy fix. I installed "Skysight -Simply bigger trees", then I have "Skyrim bigger trees" directly below it. This makes for some massive, very realistic trees, and I use the LOD from Skysight and it matches well visually, except the LOD tree sizes are to small. I tried to read through everything to see what to do to fix it, but I am over 50 now and my brain just cant absorb all of this stuff as easy as it used to. Anyway, i was wandering if the ini files for the lod can be adjusted manually to do this? Maybe the scale size or the height/width? I could experiment, but I'd rather not spend hours tinkering with it if someone could kindly give me the easy answer to this.  Thanks much! 

 

[LOD]
Width=863.142700
Height=2556.195801
Model=Landscape\Trees\TreePineForest01.nif
Scale=1.6

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#202 sheson

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Posted 21 August 2017 - 04:32 PM

Ok, I have an odd situation, and I am looking for a hopefully easy fix. I installed "Skysight -Simply bigger trees", then I have "Skyrim bigger trees" directly below it. This makes for some massive, very realistic trees, and I use the LOD from Skysight and it matches well visually, except the LOD tree sizes are to small. I tried to read through everything to see what to do to fix it, but I am over 50 now and my brain just cant absorb all of this stuff as easy as it used to. Anyway, i was wandering if the ini files for the lod can be adjusted manually to do this? Maybe the scale size or the height/width? I could experiment, but I'd rather not spend hours tinkering with it if someone could kindly give me the easy answer to this.  Thanks much! 
 
[LOD]
Width=863.142700
Height=2556.195801
Model=Landscape\Trees\TreePineForest01.nif
Scale=1.6


The LOD trees should be about the right automatically if you installed Skysight - Simply Bigger Tree Billboards after the vanilla billboards and then generated tree LOD.

 

Skyrim bigger trees just scales the trees via values in the plugin and that scaling affects both the full model and the tree LOD when it is generated. However, the larger the scaling the more the imperfections of slightly incorrect width/height of the billboards might be noticeable.

 

If just the height needs adjusting then raise the height value. If the LOD tree appears overall small in width and height, then either raise both width/height or use scale, which will make a tree bigger in all directions.

 

While you are working on this, just generate tree LOD to test it, uncheck the static and dynamic LOD to save time.
 


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#203 Jabrute

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Posted 21 August 2017 - 07:58 PM

The LOD trees should be about the right automatically if you installed Skysight - Simply Bigger Tree Billboards after the vanilla billboards and then generated tree LOD.

 

Skyrim bigger trees just scales the trees via values in the plugin and that scaling affects both the full model and the tree LOD when it is generated. However, the larger the scaling the more the imperfections of slightly incorrect width/height of the billboards might be noticeable.

 

If just the height needs adjusting then raise the height value. If the LOD tree appears overall small in width and height, then either raise both width/height or use scale, which will make a tree bigger in all directions.

 

While you are working on this, just generate tree LOD to test it, uncheck the static and dynamic LOD to save time.
 

Thank so much!!!


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#204 sirjesto

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Posted 24 August 2017 - 08:35 AM

Hey Sheson.  We at the Legacy of the Dragonborn mod page are getting reports that DynDOLOD is crashing with the latest version of Legacy.  Is it possible that the rules for Legacy need updating for the Latest version of the mod? v19 was a large update and things have probably changed since the last time for DynDOLOD.


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#205 sheson

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Posted 24 August 2017 - 03:11 PM

Thanks for letting me know, I will do some tests and let you know what I find.


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#206 sheson

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Posted 26 August 2017 - 04:57 AM

Hey Sheson.  We at the Legacy of the Dragonborn mod page are getting reports that DynDOLOD is crashing with the latest version of Legacy.  Is it possible that the rules for Legacy need updating for the Latest version of the mod? v19 was a large update and things have probably changed since the last time for DynDOLOD.


Here is an update for Legacy of the Dragonborn 19.1.0 that ensures new LOD generated with DynDOLOD 2.26 is working correctly.

I sent the same to icecreamassassin already.

Edited by sheson, 26 August 2017 - 04:59 AM.

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#207 sirjesto

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Posted 26 August 2017 - 11:32 AM

Here is an update for Legacy of the Dragonborn 19.1.0 that ensures new LOD generated with DynDOLOD 2.26 is working correctly.

I sent the same to icecreamassassin already.

Thanks a bunch Sheson.


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