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some concerns about the community


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#1 hishutup

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Posted 08 April 2017 - 06:13 PM

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Mator keeps posting some good info that seems to contribute to the discussion over on the nexus but they keep deleting posts. I don't really have time to follow any sort of controversial discussion, but I'll leave this here so people can freely and openly discuss things.

 

Anyhow, I don't plan on deleting anything unless its obviously spam, so discuss this topic from the nexus to you hearts content, but please follow the STEP Community Citizenship

 

Heres some screencaps if the original topic gets deleted.

Page 1

Page 2

Page 3 from April 8th, 2017 @ 1612 PST



#2 Mator

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Posted 08 April 2017 - 06:33 PM

vdXoW.png  vdYCP.png

 

Here's the post that initially made Dark0ne decide he wanted to arbitrarily restrict all further posts I made in the thread:



Here's Dark0ne's reply:

 

 

Here's the post that I later made that they kept deleting:



Here's my reply to Hishy's post, also deleted:

 



Here's what I said to The Vampire Dante's post about deleting my posts:

 


 

 

My Motivations


Edited by Mator, 08 April 2017 - 08:24 PM.

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#3 TechAngel85

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Posted 08 April 2017 - 07:08 PM

Just looks like a big pissing match, if you ask me. :^_^: I'll post the info for them to all make up their own minds.



#4 hishutup

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Posted 08 April 2017 - 07:13 PM

I will say that something like "Needless to say, Dark0ne and Nexus Mods have been losing my respect over the past year.  Now that they've gone as far as blanket censorship against me I think it's time to take further action.",
is a comment that I can see the nexus deleting for sure.
I don't disagree with what youre saying but I definitely don't agree either.
 
If you don't agree with what service the nexus is providing then its probably time to find some place new to lurk and post your files.
The problem with doing so is the discover-ability isn't there, but things are a little but different since you have mod picker. 
Currently, I use the Nexus service is to download, track and discover mods. Mod picker adds something new to the mix that solves the discovery problem. If it allows me to discover and track all mods then I'll probably switch to only use the Nexus for downloading mods.
 
 

Just looks like a big pissing match, if you ask me. :^_^: I'll post the info for them to all make up their own minds.

I agree, but I find some humor in how the Nexus outright delete the posts rather than giving them a public warning.

I cannot recall a time where somewhere like step or reddit outright delete posts other than straight spam.

 

 

 

I work all day now, I don't have time to keep up on this stuff. The first thing I saw was how the moderation was being done and I didn't agree with it, so I started this thread for anyone and everyone to contribute to.



#5 TechAngel85

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Posted 08 April 2017 - 07:19 PM

And that's the problem. Nexus has a bit of a monopoly when it comes to mods. Likely because it is the best and most rounded platform for authors to use.

 

I will say that DarkOne has never been that "into" the community. He's a business man and runs Nexus as a business, for the most part. From what I've seen, he's never been in touch with the overall community and really only listens to a small handful of authors when it comes to community dealings. He will, nearly 100% of the time, side with the author in most dealings of disputes to avoid any legal concerns. You can't really blame him for that. He's just protecting his business.



#6 Mator

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Posted 08 April 2017 - 07:24 PM

I will say that something like "Needless to say, Dark0ne and Nexus Mods have been losing my respect over the past year.  Now that they've gone as far as blanket censorship against me I think it's time to take further action.",
is a comment that I can see the nexus deleting for sure.
I don't disagree with what youre saying but I definitely don't agree either.
 
If you don't agree with what service the nexus is providing then its probably time to find some place new to lurk and post your files.
The problem with doing so is the discover-ability isn't there, but things are a little but different since you have mod picker. 
Currently, I use the Nexus service is to download, track and discover mods. Mod picker adds something new to the mix that solves the discovery problem. If it allows me to discover and track all mods then I'll probably switch to only use the Nexus for downloading mods.

Sure, that's fine.  I'm willing to recognize that my verbiage might demonize the Nexus a bit, but that doesn't change the fact that what they're doing is questionable.

I like having my stuff available on the Nexus, not sure if I'm quite ready to pull my files.  I'm considering it though.

 

 

And that's the problem. Nexus has a bit of a monopoly when it comes to mods. Likely because it is the best and most rounded platform for authors to use.

 

I will say that DarkOne has never been that "into" the community. He's a business man and runs Nexus as a business, for the most part. From what I've seen, he's never been in touch with the overall community and really only listens to a small handful of authors when it comes to community dealings. He will, nearly 100% of the time, side with the author in most dealings of disputes to avoid any legal concerns. You can't really blame him for that. He's just protecting his business.

Agreed.  I totally recognize why he makes the decisions he makes, and how he thinks that he is making the best decisions for his business.  That said, I don't agree.  I think that "siding with the author" 100% of the time will ultimately lead to a very restrictive community, and a restrictive community is alienating both to mod users and authors.  That is ultimately bad for Nexus Mods as a business, because it leads to fewer mods and fewer people modding their games.

 

I feel like it's a common theme.  I feel like Dark0ne doesn't see the big picture of how his decisions affect Nexus Mods and the modding community as a whole.


Edited by Mator, 08 April 2017 - 07:29 PM.

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#7 hishutup

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Posted 08 April 2017 - 07:28 PM

And that's the problem. Nexus has a bit of a monopoly when it comes to mods. Likely because it is the best and most rounded platform for authors to use.

 

I will say that DarkOne has never been that "into" the community. He's a business man and runs Nexus as a business, for the most part. From what I've seen, he's never been in touch with the overall community and really only listens to a small handful of authors when it comes to community dealings. He will, nearly 100% of the time, side with the author in most dealings of disputes to avoid any legal concerns. You can't really blame him for that. He's just protecting his business.

I don't blame him either but things are regressing hard when it comes to copyright.

I don't really have the time or sources to research this sort of stuff to the extent that I'd desire.

I did see arthmoor's response and I'd like to respond to him but the internet isn't the best place to research this sort of stuff and I don't think a link to a video of an actual copyright attorney or a link to some webpage is sufficient.

Ideally, I'd ask a lawyer, but that would be a hefty fee that I cant pony up at this point in time.

 

Youtube is always dealing with this and its becoming more and more established that fair use is a thing, but these issues of the 2010s are really weird(copyright and social issues).



#8 TechAngel85

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Posted 08 April 2017 - 08:04 PM

Personally I would prefer that Bethesda (and other developers) would simply say, "you don't own your mods. we do. share them freely or don't share them at all". This would solve all the copyright issues around modding and promote an open modding community.



#9 hishutup

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Posted 08 April 2017 - 08:22 PM

I believe that would be oversteping things a little bit.

What if I make a mod by creating and editing the binary of plugins(xEdit) this method doesnt work.



#10 TechAngel85

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Posted 08 April 2017 - 09:09 PM

I believe that would be oversteping things a little bit.

What if I make a mod by creating and editing the binary of plugins(xEdit) this method doesnt work.

Well, all mods are derivative works of the base game so they could do it on those grounds alone. The only mods that this might not apply to are mods which use no vanilla assets. This mean your mod wouldn't even be able to use any records from the vanilla masters, else, even when using xEdit, the terms would still apply. They could get around this by placing in the requirement that all mods must contain the vanilla masters, else they can not be distributed. It would be fully within their rights to do this.



#11 hishutup

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Posted 08 April 2017 - 09:34 PM

Eh, I'm not too sure on that, but like I said, these are questions for actual copyright lawyers, not the internet.



#12 Mator

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Posted 08 April 2017 - 10:23 PM

Personally I would prefer that Bethesda (and other developers) would simply say, "you don't own your mods. we do. share them freely or don't share them at all". This would solve all the copyright issues around modding and promote an open modding community.

I also don't think they legally could do that (it's overstepping their legal authority).  They might have been able to get away with it had they stated it from the start, but I don't consider it likely.

What they could do, however, is add terms to the CK EULA that state that the author cannot restrict redistribution or modification of their mods (sort of like how they restrict mod authors from using mods commercially).  I still don't think they should do this, because being open is a choice that has to be made, not a rule to be enforced.


Edited by Mator, 09 April 2017 - 01:07 AM.

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#13 darthbdaman

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Posted 08 April 2017 - 10:37 PM

You're not going to get anywhere arguing with them. I've wasted far too much time at that over the past months trying.

A quick glance at Arthmoor's posts on the matter show he doesn't have an honest bone in his body (he keeps saying Mator called him a terrorist, that I said he killed puppies, etc.). The only way we win is preventing the influence of the MA forums from spreading elsewhere. The less mod authors who think it is acceptable (or better yet nessecary) to file DMCA's and spend there time trying to tear down other people's work, the better.
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#14 Kailia

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Posted 08 April 2017 - 10:55 PM

Well after seeing the replies, behavior of their moderators, I've concluded that the moment a nexus competitor surfaces, I am jumping over to them. Meantime I am just going to use Nexus to download mods. And I tend to find most of my mods through review videos and lets play videos that also have pre-start videos listing the various mods that are used. And mod authors like the one that started this whole mess, have a special place on my blacklist. Never will I download a mod from that author.

 

For the most part, Nexus has lost someone that did care for the community. But Nexus also has no other real competitors. A lot of mods aren't on Steam Workshop, and honestly, just don't work right. And the adult site I get some mods, don't carry mods like what I use. So there's literally no other options out there at the moment.


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#15 TechAngel85

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Posted 08 April 2017 - 11:01 PM

I will say it's absolutely ridiculous, imo, that anyone would go through the hassle of a take-down of any such content in the modding community. All this from a difference of opinions...pretty childish any way you look at it.


But Nexus also has no other real competitors. A lot of mods aren't on Steam Workshop, and honestly, just don't work right. And the adult site I get some mods, don't carry mods like what I use. So there's literally no other options out there at the moment.

There's Moddb and TESAlliance, but they're small fry compared to Nexus. Steam Workshop is a platform no one should ever touch, imo.




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