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Bethesda Creation Club - 3rd Party DLC


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#16 SparrowPrince

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Posted 12 June 2017 - 06:42 PM

Do you think that they will accept an idea that would seemingly require zero effort from a creator? How would a modder help with something like interactive foliage, for example? That would generate a lot of buyers I assume, but I can only see Bethesda being able to offically implement/extent verlet physics to things like foliage. Would Bethesda just go it alone and not acknowledge said creator?

 

It's clearly made to squeeze the mod market to line Zenimax's pockets, so what is stopping them from being corrupt and using it as a jump on platform for ideas? The only good thing that will possibility come (in my eyes) is extending the engine offically with new features.

 

Edit: Also, most likely this?

 

B6ZiOrQ.jpg


Edited by SparrowPrince, 12 June 2017 - 07:03 PM.

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#17 TechAngel85

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Posted 12 June 2017 - 07:39 PM

Speaking of fixing the CK, if anyone knows how to reverse engineer and decompile the code there are a few of us trying to fix the CK for modders everywhere, any help is appreciated.

 

This started on IcecreamAssassins Discord channel and continues to be debugged there when we are able.

Your input is widely appreciated in helping us find a solution for it.

I would be happy to help where I can, but my coding skills are basically non-existent. I can toss some papyrus around, but that's about it. I'm good a breaking things...errr...bug testing things. ^_^



#18 Shadriss

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Posted 12 June 2017 - 09:55 PM

I'm good a breaking things...errr...bug testing things. ^_^

What's the difference?

 

On topic, though - I have to echo Mator a bit about being very... skeptical. On the other hand, this at least appears to be much more thought out, and has at least a chance of working as intended. The requirements are going to prevent a good deal of the mod-theft that occurred the first time around (though, of course, it may still happen somehow), and at least by making it go through some kind of QA process (though TBH, Beth's QA process may not be the best judging by the release versions of thier games...) with Bethesda, it somewhat justifies their cut on any 3rd party content... certainly more than last time around.

 

Cautiously optimistic is probably the watch word on this one - at least until we see it in action this time.


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#19 TechAngel85

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Posted 12 June 2017 - 10:43 PM

The one thing that I haven't seen anyone mention (here), is that these mods will most likely forever be behind a paywall and never be allowed to be released for free. This is just my speculation, of course, but I seriously doubt Bethesda will allow the mods to be freely distributed by the author's choice like they did the last time. Else, where's the benefit for them of putting in their time and effort of curating? They would essentially be cutting their own profit by allowing such a thing to take place. Therefore, we're likely seeing the first of Bethesda actually taking control of some mod content. I'm very interested to see what the contract for the club members will include. Hopefully someone will get in and spill the details, assuming there isn't a non-disclosure they have to sign.

 

As for pirating, it's always going to happen. That's just the nature of the beast.



#20 EssArrBee

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 12:07 AM

That's why I put 3rd Party DLC in the title. This isn't modding in the typical sense. This is pitching an idea to Bethesda, getting funding to make it, having to deliver that product, then getting a cut for making it. I bet that the devs don't even get a very big cut of it. They were doing 25% for the other paid mods, but do you think that all the devs that made Skyrim walked away with 25% of the revenue from the game? That was like $200 million. I get the feeling that they want their internal devs to release stuff and to attract professionals that are taking a break or have free time to make stuff for them. There is no 25% for that type of work though. You are more of a contract worker. 



#21 remlnx

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 04:30 AM

So basically we going to pay in future to have mods? Or I got this wrong?

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#22 Penrutet

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 07:53 AM

So basically we going to pay in future to have mods? Or I got this wrong?


No, mods will still be free and Nexus will still be around. Right now we can only speculate since there is not enough information out yet but it seems that the Creation Club isn't really about mods but rather about Mini-DLCs created by in-house or external developers and only in small parts by non-professional mod creators.

However, we'll have to wait and see how this turns out. Right now I don't see any reason to panic. I don't think this will endanger the mod system as we know it.
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#23 remlnx

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 08:59 AM

No, mods will still be free and Nexus will still be around. Right now we can only speculate since there is not enough information out yet but it seems that the Creation Club isn't really about mods but rather about Mini-DLCs created by in-house or external developers and only in small parts by non-professional mod creators.

However, we'll have to wait and see how this turns out. Right now I don't see any reason to panic. I don't think this will endanger the mod system as we know it.

That make sense. Thanks for taking time and make it clear. After the failed attempt of make paid mods, this scared me out.

Edited by remlnx, 13 June 2017 - 08:59 AM.

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#24 Shadriss

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 11:15 AM

 I don't think this will endanger the mod system as we know it.

The only potential danger I see is this : If this is successful enough, how long before some wizard in marketing comes up with the idea of NOT releasing the CK (or equivalent programs) so that modding for these kind of games becomes difficult at best. Recall when Skyrim first came out - there were mods, but without the CK they were rather primitive and constrained. Talking about non-texture replacers, of course, just for clarification.

 

Otherwise, I agree with this, so far as it goes. Beth has always relied heavily on the mod community to extend the life of their games. Short of removing that support and causing the Great Bethesda Meltdown (Part TWO!), I see nothing changing on the local level.

 

Tech - While I agree that any content created for this will be behind the 'Wall, I think we can also safely assume that, if they are good enough to actually generate sustained interest, someone will likely create a version of it on their own, from scratch, that will be freely available. Much as there are several variants of mods that already exist (The Parthunaxx Dilemma, as an example), I can see variants or 'inspired-by' type mods spawning as a result as well. It won't be the SAME mod, but it may be very similar and in some cases better.


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#25 EssArrBee

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 02:21 PM

Bethesda is about to have someone on the Roosterteeth youtube stream. Maybe they will have more details about Creation Club.

 

EDIT: NVM, it's just some guys from the Wolfenstein studio.  :dry:



#26 EssArrBee

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 02:47 PM

Now Pete Hines is on the roosterteeth stream.

 

EDIT: He just talked about Evil Within 2.  :wallbash:



#27 Greg

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 04:54 PM

From what I'm reading so far it sound as if mod authors will essentially be "paid contractors" working for Bethesda so Bethesda has the rights to the mod. The one good side of this is that mod authors shouldn't have the ability to take down the mods when they pack their bags and leave town.

 

I think Shadriss has a good point that this is likely just an initial step back into the world of paid mods. I can certainly see Bethesda expanding on this over time.



#28 baronaatista

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 10:48 PM

I find it odd the confusion in the community about - is this paid mods?  If it's contracted work, is it a mod?

 

I mean I suppose you can say that this will be DLC.  However, going from what they showed so far - we're talking new models maybe?  New weapons, Armors, maybe some creatures.  Probably the odd gameplay tweak - I'd bet Chesko makes a new version of 'The Art of the Catch' for CC.  

 

Horse Armor was a DLC, and Immersive Armors is a mod.  ?

 

The terminology doesn't matter a whole lot to me - this is indeed paid modding, it's just that Bethesda has decided to implement this curation process and have actual dedicated members of their team to oversee it, and apparently to create content for it.  

 

I personally applaud the concept - this is the proper way to do paid mods.  And I'm also very happy to pay for more content, so long as that content is a)quality and b)either extends the life of the game or enhances my experience of it in meaningful ways.  I'd really love to see some of the talented, driven, creative modders that create content for these games be able to make a living (or at least profit) from the fruits of their labor.

 

However they also seem to be starting off with a couple key limitations that I think might affect the potential output of the 'Creation Club' (ie. only new content, no existing mod conversions, must be new-game friendly).  

 

In addition, as I was perusing the reddit Mator linked, EnaiSiaion brought up the interesting point of compatibility and whether or not Beth really understand what that means when you talk about the huge mod lists that large portions of the community (at least for PC) are using.  ie - is the broader community now going to be forced to make hundreds of compatibility patches for people with different versions of the 'DLC'?

 

Beyond all of that, my general feeling is that - despite what I believe are mostly good intentions, I believe that Beth's ambition for this will be fairly small.  I don't see how any real DLC gets created through this program (though I suppose they do mention new worldspaces).  My guess is that it will be as Essarrbee said - mostly neat little additions; game-jam type stuff.  

 

And then of course there's questions about the script extender (almost certainly will be treated as though it doesn't exist), modding tools, scope of projects, voice acting? And so on.

 

* just watched this video from Gopher on the subject where he points out something interesting - this Creation Club is apparently open to outside developers;  does this mean say Obsidian could make FNV2 and release it as CC DLC?  Or say the Enderal team?


Edited by baronaatista, 13 June 2017 - 10:58 PM.

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#29 Nebulous112

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Posted 14 June 2017 - 12:17 AM

The way I look at it, mods are user released, DLC is developer released (regardless of content type).

As this Creation Club content is curated and released by Bethesda (but made by contractors), it is DLC in my opinion.

As to whether outside development companies could release whole new games or full overhauls under this system...I doubt it. Content is first pitched to Bethesda from what I have read. I think they would shut that down. They want people to buy 10 pieces of DLC for a few bucks each instead of one piece at ten bucks.

#30 EssArrBee

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Posted 15 June 2017 - 11:11 AM

The way I look at it, mods are user released, DLC is developer released (regardless of content type).

As this Creation Club content is curated and released by Bethesda (but made by contractors), it is DLC in my opinion.

As to whether outside development companies could release whole new games or full overhauls under this system...I doubt it. Content is first pitched to Bethesda from what I have read. I think they would shut that down. They want people to buy 10 pieces of DLC for a few bucks each instead of one piece at ten bucks.

That's exactly why I put 3rd party DLC in the title. I was watching Gus from roosterteeth talk about it while he read some of the stuff from a press brief he got. It said you had to apply to join the creation club, you have to setup a development timeline, you have to work with Bethesda devs and QA, and that you would be paid for reaching development goals. It sounds like they hire people as freelance contractors. The majority of this stuff will be made professionals who are careers freelance workers or out-of-work developers that are between jobs and need cash. Of course some modders will jump on and try to make some cash as well, but I think going through a dev cycle they have never experienced may turn them off. 




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