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#1 Samphaa7

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Posted 10 November 2017 - 03:29 PM

Hi Sheson, I'm after a bit of help/advice. I've been following Wazalang's youtube video, except I've installed SFO and RAT before everything else, and I'm using small lush trees from EVT, instead of large lush trees.

 

I was wondering if you could tell me what is making my Realistic Aspen Tree LOD look like this after running DynDOLOD?

 

https://imgur.com/a/xdEjD

 

Do I have the wrong billboards or something? Im using the ultra trees setting and the LOD seems very thin compared to the full model.

 

A couple of other things, I seem unable to generate LOD for Blackreach and Dimfrost. It appears (to my untrained eye at least) to go through fine when running DynDOLOD, but testing in-game there is no LOD in either location.

 

My final problem is infinite load screen when trying to fast travel to certain places, Solitude and Falkreath mainly, it's happened with Morthal aswell. I've kept an eye on my VRAM and RAM usage whilst trying and they're both around 9GB, out of 11GB and 16GB respectively. Strange thing is I can use a carriage to travel around just fine.

 

Dyndolodhttps://www.dropbox....SE_log.txt?dl=0

 

TexGen: https://www.dropbox....SE_log.txt?dl=0

 

Any help greatly appreciated, I would also like to say thanks for creating such a fantastic tool and being so patient on these forums. Is there any place I can donate? I looked on Nexus but couldn't see anything.


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#2 sheson

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Posted 10 November 2017 - 05:49 PM

LOD trees "look like this" because of the LOD models/textures or billboards you have installed for those trees.

From the log I can see the Aspen trees fall back to the full model for LOD4. The textures appear thinner because full models can set the alpha threshold for alpha channel of the textures, while it is hardcoded to 128 for LOD.
The solution is to create specific (hybrid) 3D LOD trees with adjusted LOD textures that use transparency as explained in ..DynDOLOD/Docs/trees.ultra/tools/DynDOLOD_CreateStaticTree.html

I see no problem in the log for for Blackreach or Dimfrost either, though I am not sure what you mean by "no LOD in either direction". Check BTO files in meshes\terrain\blackreach\objects\*.bto and compare them to vanilla *.bto files in the BSA files.
You could just hide/remove the meshes folders for those two worldspaces and it will fall back to vanilla LOD.

I am unaware of ILS being a thing with Skyrim SE and the 64bit engine now handling main memory without problems. If anything I would suspect an incompatibility with certain full models trees being used for LOD, however if you can get to the areas without problems by other means you can rule that out.

If you like you could test if smaller LOD atlas textures sizes reduce memory and make a difference. I would just use an appropriate program to shrink the dds files in ..Textures\DynDOLOD\LOD\*.dds and ..Textures\Terrain\Tamriel\Trees\*.dds to really small versions.

Other than that, use optimized/decimated 3D LOD trees instead of full models for LOD to reduce size of LOD meshes. But again I have never seen a report yet that memory usage is a problem with Skyrim SE.

Edited by sheson, 10 November 2017 - 05:49 PM.

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#3 Samphaa7

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Posted 11 November 2017 - 10:30 AM

Thanks for the reply. No LOD in either location, not direction. As in the only giant mushrooms I can see are the ones in my currently loaded grids.

 

I have just extracted the 2 Vanilla meshes folders and it's a little strange. The folder structure is slightly different for some reason, and I appear to be missing .btr files. But all of the object .bto files are there.

 

Vanilla meshes folder structure is terrain/blackreach/objects with the list of .btr files on the same level as objects folder, but there's no trees folder.

 

My folder structure is terrain/blackreach/objects

                                                          trees

 

and i just have a blackreach.lst file in the trees folder, no .btt files. Dimfrost has all of them in the folders, .bto files in objects, .btt in trees and .btr on the same level as the objects and trees folders. 

 

With the aspen trees I think the LOD I'm trying to get is included with dyndolod resources, looking at treeaspen_#######passthru_lod.nif files they look awesome and a lot more dense that what I currently have, but I'm doing something daft and overwriting it. The only things I let overwrite DynResources are Enhanced Landscapes Standalone Oaks, EVT, EVT Billboard Generator, Bruma Billboards and a couple of dead trees and snowy trees from SFO 2.72. The same as in Wazalangs video. Could choosing the Realistic Aspen Trees version in EVT and EVT BB cock something up with DynResources? Or do these nifs not work with Ultra trees?

 

Im not overly bothered about the fast travel thing, I don't intend to use fast travel anyway, I seem to be able to get everywhere fine with CFTO and dragon fast travel, I only mentioned it incase it would have an impact further into a save game or something.

 

Sorry to be such a noob, I've been at this for nearly a week on and off, took me 3 days of searching forums to realise I was using 2.3 SE resources with 2.26 standalone. 2.35 worked first time lol.


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#4 sheson

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Posted 11 November 2017 - 01:28 PM

Blackreach has not tree and as a result no tree LOD. (unless someone creates billboards for the small bushes)

BTR / Terrain LOD is in ..meshes\terrain\[Worldspace]\*.btr
BTO / Object LOD is in ..meshes\terrain\[Worldspace]\Objects\*.bto
BTT / Tree LOD is in ..meshes\terrain\[Worldspace]\Trees\*.btt

We are only interested in Object LOD, as that is what you reported to be missing. My suggestion was to compare the BTO files generated by DynDOLOD to the vanilla BTO files.
What I mean by that, compare the object LOD folders and see if you have about the same amount of files. Then open one generated by DynDOLOD in nifskope and compare it to same file name from the vanilla folder.
It should be obvious if one is having more or less LOD objects than the other.


The 3D LOD trees included in DynDOLOD Resources are for the vanilla trees. If you use a mod like SFO/EVT to change trees they each need their own matching versions of 3D LOD trees or depending on what you set in the DynDOLOD ini billboards or full models will be used for LOD level 4.

Last time I checked, Enhanced Vanilla Trees SSE did not yet rename all 3D LOD tree files to the new CRC32 filenames that are used to match full to LOD models (all explained in DynDOLOD_CreateStaticTree.html), which maybe the reason why DynDOLOD uses the full models instead. The CRC32 of the full models changed when the nifs were converted to the new Skyrim SE format.

In your case it may be better to use the Skyrim version of EVT that has all 3D LOD trees correctly matched to the full models and the old nifs work just the same in Skyrim SE anyways. That is probably easier than trying to fix the filenames of Skyrim SE EVT without indepth knowledge about that mod.


Edited by sheson, 11 November 2017 - 03:08 PM.

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#5 Samphaa7

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Posted 11 November 2017 - 02:46 PM

Ok, I think I'm in the right place now.

 

The files are the same, they all have the same names anyway, except the Dyndolod files are between 25%-75% larger in size. All of the Dimfrost BTO files are there aswell.

 

When I compare nifs in nifskope the dyndolod objects have white textures for buildings/waterfalls/etc. Its the same problem in Dimfrost.

 

Images: https://imgur.com/a/5GNfU

 

Thanks for your help so far ma man. And thanks for the EVT aspens tip, I have downloaded it ready to go.


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#6 sheson

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Posted 11 November 2017 - 03:09 PM

White textures are probably fine in game. If you want to the correct textures in nifskope you would have tell it where to find them, or if they are int the load order start nifskope through MO for example.

 

Despite the textures, it seems the generated LOD is fine and complete. If it doesn't show something else is causing problems. The next test would be to hide the meshes\terrain\Blackreach\Objects\ folder from the DynDOLOD output and keep everything else the same and test if the LOD shows with the vanilla BTO.


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#7 Samphaa7

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Posted 11 November 2017 - 03:30 PM

Indeed they do look fine in game. 

 

I have completely removed dyndolod and texgen outputs from my mod manager. Started a new game, coc'd to blackreach, no lod, coc to dimfrost, no lod. Are my vanilla files knackered somehow, so dyndolod can't pick them up? 

 

https://imgur.com/a/6Nj5d

 

Thanks again


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#8 sheson

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Posted 11 November 2017 - 05:34 PM

DynDOLOD generates the LOD just fine as you verified by checking the BTO. There is something preventing it or vanilla LOD from being shown.

Check in xEdit if a mod overwrites the BlackReach / DimFrost worldspaces and not properly forwards all data and that their form versions are 44. Compare flags and stuff between the vanilla records and the overwrites.

If that doesn't reveal anything, this might also happen if the lodsettings\blackreach.lod is missing or maybe overwritten by another version in a a mod.
Load the entire load order into xEdit and open the assets browser with CTRL+F3, the type lodsettings into the filter field, it should show a list of all *.lod files and the containers they are in.
For blackreach.lod there should only be the one in Skyrim - Meshes0.bsa, I suppose it should be similar for dimfrost, its lod file should only exist once in a BSA or as a loose file for Wyrmstooth.
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#9 Samphaa7

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 04:46 AM

Not sure if I've done this right but I loaded up my entire load order in xEdit, opened each mod and expanded the worldspace tab on the mods that had one. The only mods I could find referencing Blackreach are. Aetherium Swords & Armour, Scoped Bows, Legacy of the Dragonborn, USSEP and ELFX. All of their records were highlighted green, no red on any of them. All my mods are form 44 as I went through a few days ago and saved any form 43's in the CK.

 

I also tried the assets browser trick and everything appears normal. Blackreach points to the Meshes0.bsa you mentioned, and Dimfrost & Wyrmstooth both point to the data folder, because of loose files?

 

This is really odd now, I might just say sod it and play without lod in those areas, I'll only be there for a couple of hours anyway. The tip for using LE EVT instead of SSE EVT worked beautifully. Aspen LOD looks as amazing and pine lod now :)


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#10 sheson

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 05:06 AM

You only need to open a worldspace once in xEdit. You do this by unfolding Skyrim.esm, unfold worldspaces and then unfold BreakReach 0001EE62.
It will show you the list of plugins overwriting that worldspace left to right. The most right plugins is the last overwrite. See if any value is different compared to unofficial patch.
If possible maybe change load order so that some other plugin is last.

Since this is affecting vanilla LOD a well, you might want to search for related discussion about the last plugin.
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#11 Samphaa7

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 07:18 PM

I've got so much still to learn in xEdit. 

 

I unfolded the Skyrim.esm and checked the worldspaces and it was the same mods as my last post. But the order is USSEP, Legacy, Scoped Bows, Aetherium S&A, ELFX. There's not a single red mark on any of them. Whole page is green.

 

I just ran Dyndolod for probably the 3rd or 4th time today, had a quick look around Blackreach and there's still no distant mushrooms. I've discovered/decided you kinda need lod in there as its quite easy to get lost with no reference points. Although my game was pretty dark to be honest.

 

On a different note, lod level 4 EVT LE pines don't seem transition as good as lod level 4 pines in EVT SSE. Not sure if it's the way I installed them or something else, but I used exactly the same order as installing EVT SSE. I know there shouldn't be hardly any fade in after seeing how well the SSE pine trees transition. I forgot to tfc and see if they were actually 3D Hybrid trees or BB when using the LE trees.  

 

To get around this I extracted both LE EVT+Billboard and SSE EVT+Billboard versions and copied eveything to do with RAT from LE to SSE folders, overwrote everything, zipped them up, added them back into my mod folder and I've got 3D Hyrbrid RATs with EVT SSE pines :) Just thought i'd put that in in-case anybody comes along and see's this thread.

 

I also seem to have got rid of the fast travel black screen thing. At the moment my game runs lovely with max settings and I can fast travel everywhere. Just the mushrooms left on my fix list. I will have a hunt around to see if I can find any decent threads on the subject. Sorry for the rambling, Cheers.


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#12 sheson

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 05:51 AM

You may be expecting LOD for things that have no LOD models or no mesh rules while the existing LOD is working fine, actually.
Most if not all mushrooms in Blackreach have no vanilla LOD as far as I can tell.

You could add a mesh rule for them

Mesh mask = blackreachgiantmush
LOD4/LOD8/LOD16 = empty
VWD not checked
Grid = Near Full
Reference = Unchanged

Some of those mushrooms have swing animation, if the transition is noticeable, consider adding a slightly different rule for them above the first rule

Mesh mask = blackreachgiantmushanim
LOD4/LOD8/LOD16 = empty
VWD not checked
Grid = Near Full
Reference = Replace
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#13 Samphaa7

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 09:09 AM

You're probably right. I will look into the mesh rules. I have a bad habit of thinking lod means tree lod, when it infact includes objects aswell. And as far as I can remember, all of the buildings had lod in blackreach.
 
The fast travel problem is back and I'm having some really strange issues at the moment. Not sure if its PC, Skyrim or Dyndolod related. But I'll ask anyway.
 
When I start the game up, sat at the main menu I'm using roughly 5gb of ram and just over 1gb of vram. I start a new game through alternate start, choose the arrived onboard a ship to solitude option, and the game starts and runs fine. I can walk up to the bridge just above the docks, turn around and look out over Morthal and its gorgeous, constant 60fps, with 8gb ram and 7.2gb vram usage. 
If I save, quit to desktop and then start the game back up, It now runs at 45fps with 8.5gb ram usage and 8.5 vram usage. If I quit to the main menu, my ram stays at around 7.8gb and vram 5.5gb. When I try to load the save, after quitting to the main menu, I get ILS and my usage for both vram and ram jumps up to over 9gb. I alt tab out, close the game down, start it back up, load the save, and I can load in, but still stuck at 45fps. Every time I start a brand new game, its back to normal usage and 60fps.
Even if I restart my pc and load a save up that I've already created Im still at 45fps.
 
I know memory shouldn't be an issue, and Im nowhere near the limits of my hardware, I just dont understand it. Any suggestions? Sorry to be a pain in the ass. I'm so close to being able to actually play the game instead of modding it.
 
I also saw another thread about missing tree lod with people using EVT. I think the reason for this is the mod, Terrain LOD Redone. I had that in my load order, ran TexGen and DynDOLOD and I had massive amounts of lod disappear, trees would only pop in when I got close. I uninstalled it, ran Tex and Dyn again and all the LOD returned.

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#14 Samphaa7

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 11:20 AM

Just discovered something else with a bit of testing. Once I've managed to load my save back up and am at the 45fps mark, I can use the travel cart (because fast travel is ILS) and travel to Falkreath, then travel back to Solitude, run back to the same spot, and im back to 60fps. Weird. Im just gunna go ahead and start a fresh save, play for a bit and see what happens. 

 

I'll ask again, is there anywhere I can donate? I feel I need to give something back after using your software and you having the patience to deal with me and everyone else who has problems. 


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#15 sheson

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 03:15 PM

I have not had any have such experiences with Skyrm SE, but my time with it and lots of mods is limited anyways. It is still the first time I ever hear the term ILS mentioned with Skyrim SE or about FPS issues after saving, but that might only mean I have just not seen any such discussions yet. Make sure you have default / BethINIs.

 

You could test if the 3D LOD and its increased resource usage plays a role. Generate a second LOD mod with standard tree LOD and leave texture sizes in TexGen/DynDOLOD default, See if you have similar issues or not. If the results are any different, do not use fallback to full model trees when generating 3D tree LOD - though you might now not have such a case anymore now that you use EVT Skyrim version.

 

Terrain LOD Redone is updated terrain LOD meshes and textures. They do not affect standard tree LOD at all, but the meshes are used to optimize object LOD when object is generated, however that should not cause any visual problems either. If stuff disappears when enabling the mod, but is visible when the mod is disabled, my initial idea would be some kind of resource problem. Maybe in conjunction with INI settings.

 

You can either donate to STEP for hosting this forum or to Michael from Gamerpoets for the instructional videos.


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