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Request for LePresidente


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#1 Departed_3

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Posted 08 July 2018 - 04:53 AM

@LePresidente

 

Could you please put up a prominent sign somewhere to the effect of :

 

"ANYONE USING WRYE BASH LOADED VIA MO2, AND EXPERIENCING ISSUES WITH WRYE BASH - PLEASE DO NOT REPORT SUCH ISSUES TO THE WRYE BASH TEAM, THEY DO NOT USE MO2 AND HAVE NOT DESIGNED WRYE BASH TO BE RUN IN THIS WAY .. THEY WILL NOT BE ABLE TO HELP DUE TO NOT BEING ABLE TO REPRODUCE ANY OF THE MO2 RELATED ISSUES, AND MORE THAN LIKELY WILL JUST DELETE YOUR POST."

 

The worst ones hide the fact they are using MO2 and multiple help posts later we find its all been a waste of time because guess what .. Friggin MO2 again!.

 

Everyone using Wrye Bash as intended are not getting any of the issues which involve MO2 in the setup.

 

Thanks for any help in this regard.

 

Alt


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#2 TechAngel85

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Posted 08 July 2018 - 09:18 AM

@LePresidente

Could you please put up a prominent sign somewhere to the effect of :

"ANYONE USING WRYE BASH LOADED VIA MO2, AND EXPERIENCING ISSUES WITH WRYE BASH - PLEASE DO NOT REPORT SUCH ISSUES TO THE WRYE BASH TEAM, THEY DO NOT USE MO2 AND HAVE NOT DESIGNED WRYE BASH TO BE RUN IN THIS WAY .. THEY WILL NOT BE ABLE TO HELP DUE TO NOT BEING ABLE TO REPRODUCE ANY OF THE MO2 RELATED ISSUES, AND MORE THAN LIKELY WILL JUST DELETE YOUR POST."

The worst ones hide the fact they are using MO2 and multiple help posts later we find its all been a waste of time because guess what .. Friggin MO2 again!.

Everyone using Wrye Bash as intended are not getting any of the issues which involve MO2 in the setup.

Thanks for any help in this regard.

Alt

Since this was posted publicly, you've opened it up to public review... I'm just going to be the one to say that this request is ridiculous, imo. The MO2 team bares no responsibility for user actions or the WB team's unwillingness to provide support to specific use cases. It's the WB team's responsibly to make it clear these use cases will be provided no support. If they've done this, then that's all they can really do. And if they have and it's still not working because users are still submitting help requests of the WB team, then posting the same info elsewhere (MO2 page) is simply going to provide the same results...users that don't read and still ask for help. The result isn't going to change, if the solution isn't working. It's time to find a different solution. I also understand such a request is an attempt to avoid annoyances that come with user support, but that just comes with the territory.

Instead of this is mine, that is yours type of attitude, which this portrays (and if it did to me it will to others too), it would be much better for the community to actually be a community, look beyond differences, and help each other. It would be ideal for the WB team to report MO2 issues to the MO2 team and vice versa. This way the entire community benefits rather than there being an unnecessary divide because of difference in opinions and nothing more.

STEP will always hold and uphold this type of community relationship, and garner the people who are of the same "unified community" mindset.

#3 MaximilianPs

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Posted 08 July 2018 - 01:32 PM

BTW, frigging or not MO2 still the best mod manager on the market ATM. And maybe Wrye team should start considering to act like a PRO and using it. 😁
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#4 TechAngel85

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Posted 08 July 2018 - 05:00 PM

BTW, frigging or not MO2 still the best mod manager on the market ATM. And maybe Wrye team should start considering to act like a PRO and using it.

There's really very little wrong with WB itself. I actually used it for quite some time while I was waiting on MO2 to get up to speed for SSE. It has a higher learning curve and that's why a lot of users don't like it. Currently, I only use it for the bashed patch functionality and it works fine. Personally, I would prefer the team pull the bashed patch functionality out into a standalone program to be a competitor against Mator Smash...competition is good....but I digress.

The main reason I don't want to involve myself with the WB team, is because there seems to be a lot of tension amongst them and I don't need that drama. They also seem to be against anything that isn't done in traditional methods, which I'm a nonconformist. Tradition has its place but it's never the "rule of thumb" for me.

I will often be absent from their forums for a while only to come back to read a lot of arguing amongst the team with the majority of the time it ending with Arthmoor putting his foot down on the matter. Now this type of thing is nothing new, not even for the STEP community staff, however putting such things out in public forum isn't the best way to handle such situations. Our community here rarely gets to experience such things because we keep it out of public view.

Then there's the seemingly negative view of anything that breaks traditional methods. This, as I understand it, was the main reason the WB team disliked MO. However, MO2 restores the BSA/ESP relationship which seemed to be one of the big issues that team had with MO. The only other issue I've read that team had with it is the virtual file system that MO/MO2 uses. Yes, it's had its issues in the past, but it's far more stable now.

Both managers are perfectly capable of doing what users need, I just wish the two teams work together instead of being divided.

My disclaimer on all of this is this is only the impression I've only gotten from reading their forums and not being involved with their actual work. From the outside, looking in...so to say.
 
EDIT:
Correction to post...

I will often be absent from their forums for a while only to come back to read a lot of arguing amongst the team with the majority of the time it ending with Arthmoor putting his foot down on the matter. Now this type of thing is nothing new, not even for the STEP community staff, however putting such things out in public forum isn't the best way to handle such situations. Our community here rarely gets to experience such things because we keep it out of public view.

Arthmoor is not actually that involved with the WB Team. His actions are no different from ours on this forum when things get heated, he steps in to keep things civil. I wanted to correct this misinformation after talking with him. He's a good, fair, and honest guy.  :thumbsup: None of these postings were meant to be aimed at anyone particular.



#5 TechAngel85

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Posted 08 July 2018 - 07:24 PM

I split these post out from the other thread as it was completely off topic and really should have been a PM.



#6 Departed_3

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Posted 08 July 2018 - 08:36 PM

There is no need for anyones opinions or history being raked up.

 

I have a request to LePresidente, simple as that. There are no differences, no ill will .. Just a request.

 

 

The point is, sometimes on a daily basis, sometimes weekly, there is always at least a couple of posts across all of the Wrye Bash Nexus topics requesting help from users running Wrye Bash via MO2

 

We have at the top of all descriptions a notice to reflect we will not be able to help

 

We have at the top of all posts a sticky post with quite a prominent request not to bother asking for our assistance, because we dont know how to help.

 

My request is that LePresidente could also put up some kind of notice to let them all know the best support they will get is from MO/2s own developers.

 

 

Thats all there is to it. There is no animosity in the request. All I see right now are TA and Maximillian going a bit defensive and dragging up history which is uncalled for. What the hell has Arthmoor and another modding site got to do with this request?, and why would Wrye Bash team need to use MO/2 as part of developing Wrye Bash?. As for the rest of the diatribe posted above, really was there any need for most of it?. I admire the work that Tannin did in producing MO, and do not envy LePresidente taking over such a complex project as MO2.

 

 

MO/2 is enabling people to run Wrye Bash through itself, and so all of Wrye Bash functions / file calls etc should be managed by MO/2 so that (as per Tannins original idea) any tools run through MO would do so seemlessly, and it would seem to us that it is not competent in doing what it is trying to, resulting in many users coming to us with errors we cant reproduce when Wrye Bash is running as it is meant to be run.

 

I just havent got a clue how to help all these people, and its a frustrating drip feed of the same reports.

 

 

Edit : Aren't forum Administrators supposed to be impartial ?.


Edited by alt3rn1ty, 08 July 2018 - 09:12 PM.

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#7 TechAngel85

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Posted 08 July 2018 - 11:27 PM

I will simply clarify a few things about my postings here on this topic....
 

There is no need for anyones opinions or history being raked up.

Anytime you post in public view, you open that posting up to public review, regardless of those reviews being positive or negative. Hence why I said this should have been a PM. Especially if you didn't want any other postings from our 12,000+ members. Food for thought?
 

The point is, sometimes on a daily basis, sometimes weekly, there is always at least a couple of posts across all of the Wrye Bash Nexus topics requesting help from users running Wrye Bash via MO2

We have at the top of all descriptions a notice to reflect we will not be able to help
 
We have at the top of all posts a sticky post with quite a prominent request not to bother asking for our assistance, because we dont know how to help.

Which is why I mentioned this just comes with the territory and no amount of posting notices is going to make a difference. I've been with STEP for years now and you will always always always have users who don't read, don't search, don't care...they just go straight to posting. That's never going to change. What you currently have in place is most likely fending off a lot more users than you realize. What you have left are just those users that don't read, don't search, and don't care.
 

All I see right now are TA and Maximillian going a bit defensive and dragging up history which is uncalled for. What the hell has Arthmoor and another modding site got to do with this request?, and why would Wrye Bash team need to use MO/2 as part of developing Wrye Bash?. As for the rest of the diatribe posted above, really was there any need for most of it?. I admire the work that Tannin did in producing MO, and do not envy LePresidente taking over such a complex project as MO2.

No defense here. Just opinions/statements from my personal experience. As for there rest, you have to know some of the history to know the reasons for its mention....and again, this is from the outside looking in as an observer. To make this short, MO/2 has always made exceptions for WB and has made specific changes to its development so that some of WB's functionality can still be of use to some users. However, on the flip side, WB has always been bluntly against pretty much all of MO/2 and has made few to no exceptions for it and how users are using WB via MO/2 (mainly the Bashed Patching feature). I've seen this going on for years now and it's not changed. Seeing your post and the wording of it just said more of the same to me. And again, is why I said I wish the teams would cooperate.
 
As for why they should be familiar with MO/2, it's because of how users are using their product (WB) via MO/2. Knowing how MO/2 works and how to use it makes all sorts of sense.

  • they can get an idea of how to better develop WB so it stays useful for all users (MO/2 or WB users)
  • they can get new and fresh ideas for features to incorporate into WB
  • they can better support users by understanding what is going on when issues to arise
  • they can help MO/2 devs via information to develop MO/2 to better utilize WB features
  • they can help give MO/2 devs a "heads up" when changes to WB might break something
  • cooperation very well could bring in more devs to WB if both team could work together on issues

...that's just from the top of my head without thinking.

 

Edit : Aren't forum Administrators supposed to be impartial ?.

Impartial doesn't mean without opinion. It simply means treating all parties fairly. With the information I have from over the years being on the outside looking in, which I've very briefly summarized here, I believe I've presented my opinion fairly and honestly....though this was not from an "Administrator", but rather was from "TechAngel85".

 

 

Also, I don't want my statements misunderstood. I'm not against WB. I've used it heavily and successfully for some time before MO2 was up to speed and stable. Nor do I have anything against anyone on the WB dev team, several of whom I've reached out to in the past. Arthmoor has been particularly helpful with some issues I've had in the past. The only thing I don't agree with is the lack of cooperation I see. I don't think it's going to change anytime soon, but one can hope. 



#8 al12rs

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Posted 09 July 2018 - 12:21 AM

@alt3rn1ty hi, Mo2 Dev here.

I added a note at the top of the Mo2 pinned post, but as you yourself are prove to that, no one reads it.

In exchange I would ask you to change the link you put for Mo2 support to either the Mo2 discord server: https://discord.gg/5tCqt6V
or the Mo2 GitHub page: https://github.com/M...rganizer/issues

You are invited to use one of those methods to contact the team as well, instead of using this public forum. Both those methods are much more direct line to us.

Hope that helps with the reports even though I don't really expect it to change much. We have worked a lot to fix WB related problems for users and there are no known issues at the moment specific to it. I expect most issues to be caused by either incorrect setup of the program or Antivirus blocking files. If we receive reports regarding incorrect behaviour when using WB through Mo2 we will do our best to fix any bugs on our end.
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#9 Departed_3

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Posted 09 July 2018 - 05:54 AM

@alt3rn1ty hi, Mo2 Dev here.

I added a note at the top of the Mo2 pinned post, but as you yourself are prove to that, no one reads it.

In exchange I would ask you to change the link you put for Mo2 support to either the Mo2 discord server: https://discord.gg/5tCqt6V
or the Mo2 GitHub page: https://github.com/M...rganizer/issues

You are invited to use one of those methods to contact the team as well, instead of using this public forum. Both those methods are much more direct line to us.

Hope that helps with the reports even though I don't really expect it to change much. We have worked a lot to fix WB related problems for users and there are no known issues at the moment specific to it. I expect most issues to be caused by either incorrect setup of the program or Antivirus blocking files. If we receive reports regarding incorrect behaviour when using WB through Mo2 we will do our best to fix any bugs on our end.

 

Thanks al12rs, thats all I was asking for - Will redirect the link from Wrye Bash sticky posts to the Discord  :thumbsup:


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#10 TechAngel85

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Posted 09 July 2018 - 08:47 PM

Correct post above: http://forum.step-pr...dente/?p=225159



#11 TechAngel85

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 08:44 PM

The original user has departed and the original request has been fulfilled. Topic locked.




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