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Missing (black/purple) Texture? Report it here!


Farlo

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malebody_1_msn.dds is available in Skyrim-Textures.bsa as a 2Kx2K DXT1 texture and in HRDLC3 as a 2Kx2K uncompressed texture. If the S1 - S3 (lowest quality) settings are used the resolution will be changed to 1Kx1K. There is a comment in the DDSopt Optimization section of the guide just below the screenshots of the constraints tab parameters such as S1-S3 that says "some users may prefer to keep full precision for the uncompressed model space normal maps since these can affect display quality of bodies and faces". There are very few 2Kx2K uncompressed textures in the vanilla Skyrim BSAs, so for most of the rest of the uncompressed files the S1-S3 settings are typically fine.

 

By the way, the version in HRDLC3 is uncompressed and should provide better quality than the one in Skyrim-textures. It will overwrite the one from Skyrim-textures.

 

You shouldn't have gotten a black texture in any case; I'm not sure why this happened but I haven't seen any previous testing results of lowering the resolution of this texture.

 

If this uncompressed texture had been optimized along with the compressed color maps it would have been converted to a compressed texture. This was one of the reasons for separating the uncompressed textures from the rest of the textures in the vanilla BSA texture optimization.

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Missed that comment twice. I did read it while optimizing, but I was shooting for lower resolution anyways and the display quality warning was not important at the time.

 

I don't understand the alchemy behind dds optimizations, but I'm a little curious. I still have the extracted folders. I'll try some optimizations on the original msn files and tell you if their final resolution affects my "symptom".

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Well, I wasn't sure which malebody_1_msn.dds winds up in the optimized output, so here's what I found after optimizing with the indicated settings both extracted original textures (STD, HRDLC3):

 

STD (DXT1 original --> S2 512x512 ): okay in game

STD (DXT1 original --> H2 1024x1024 ): okay in game

 

HRDLC3 (uncompressed original --> S3 1024x1024): okay in game

HRDLC3 (uncompressed original --> H3 2048x2048): okay in game

 

A problem. I then pulled the optimized texture out of my bsa file and tested that one: black in game. But I noticed that the above single file optimizations produced file sizes:

 

std : 2,731Kb

HRDLC3: 16,385Kb

 

The one I pulled from my bsa is 683Kb. Not sure why there is a difference, unless the optimization scripts decided the original file did not belong in the categories I just used for testing.

 

I thought I might be able to help, but I'm over my head here. FYI

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Since the texture is in both Skyrim-textures.bsa and HRDLC3, the version used in Skyrim will the one from HRDLC3 . The version extracted from Skyrim-textures.bsa and then processed in DDSopt will be overwritten. The HRDLC3 one is uncompressed so the file size is much larger. The file that ends up in the optimized output will be the HRDLC3 one at the resolution you chose when optimizing uncompressed textures in DDsopt.

 

I'm not sure which version gives you a black texture. The 683Kb version is the 1Kx1K DXT1 produced by DDSopt from the file extracted from Skyrim-textures.bsa when the DDSopt max resolution limit parameter is 1Kx1K. It would nottypically be used in the game since the version from HRDLC3 will overwrite it. By the way, I can't see any problems with it but I haven't tried this version in the game since it is overwriten.

 

Are you using the STEP mods (including RaceMenu) and do you have any other mods that affect this texture?

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I have a few recommended STEP mods; just LOD and Map upgrades, SMIM, SFO, etc. I DO have RaceMenu and CBBE *blush* installed, but they are loose files. I only optimized Vanilla, HRDLC, and UHRP textures (EDIT: and the DLC textures), following the Wiki Guide as closely as possible. There was no textures\actors\character\male directory at all during my tests, I had to add one to get the "fixed" msn file in there. The 683KB file causes the black texture in my game.

 

The 683KB info makes sense in that I selected the 1024x1024 resolution settings when optimizing. However, as I noted above, I could not make a 683KB file by doing either the STD or HRDLC3 malebody_1_msn.dds files by themselves.

 

There is more than an insignificant chance of user error here as I have only done the optimizations once. I have the batch files I used initially. If it would help, I would be glad to try the whole process over and report those results.

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Are you using Mod Organizer or Wrye Bash? MO doesn't directly add files to Skyrim\Data, and if you want to change a file you shouldn't add it directly to Skyrim\Data. It's possible with MO to see what mod it is using for this texture, but you can't just look in Skyrim\Data.

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This particular Skyrim setup is a manually modded, vanilla based, wholly independent test install made just to check out the STEP DDSOpt texture optimizations and test the prospect of putting optimized textures in a compressed bsa file for mounting in a ramdisk. (I have a bunch of symlinked, batch file controlled Skyrim installs for testing and playing different mod loads. Kinda like MO profiles, only less elegant, much less efficient, and considerably more complicated to use. ;)

 

However, your comments have finally worked their way through my leaden brain. I was confusing your "overwrite" statements in the context of optimizing and not Skyrim itself. The optimized, EDIT: 5462KB malebody_1_msn.dds placed in the EDIT:Vanilla Optimized\HRDLC3 directory by the Wiki Guide process causes a black texture in my game if not overridden by another texture source. I was simply using the loose files in the textures directory to override any other textures in order to isolate the file causing the problem.

 

Unfortunately, I can't seem to produce a 683KB file from the original malebody_1_msn.dds extracted from Skyrim - Textures.bsa. Right now, DDSopt is simply doing a passthrough on it and I cant make it compress the damn thing at all.

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Okay, ran through my optimized bsa process again, and found a couple errors. First, I edited the previous post to correct one error. Feeling pretty stupid about now.

 

I do get a black texture in-game, but its from the HRDLC3 malebody_1_msn.dds optimized texture, not the STD one. Because of a comedy of errors in building and naming my original bsa files, the two textures in question were reversed in my testing and discussions.

 

Right now, I have no HRDLC loaded at all. I have an optimized STD bsa registered in Skyrim.ini to replace Skyrim - Textures.bsa. Everything is fine. IF I take the malebody_1_msn.dds from the Vanilla Optimized\HRDLC3 directory and place it in the Data\textures directory tree as a loose file, I get black skin textures in-game, which vary somewhat depending upon the lighting.

 

I have wasted enough of your time. What I will say is this: There MAY be an issue with the Wiki Guide optimization process involving the malebody_1_msn.dds file contained in HighResTexturePack03.

 

I'm gonna go compile sheson's memory patch and see if I can get rid of issues involving texture sizes a different way.

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I'll keep trying, but so far I haven't found this problem with the DDSopt-optimized HRDLC3 textures. I added RaceMenu and I still didn't have a problem. You're not the only one reporting the problem, but I haven't been able to duplicate it yet. It might be affected by some other mods that I'm not loading. When I get further along with testing I'll report the results, and perhaps others will also check to see if they have this problem.

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In case this might be related to some other issue, I offer the following information on my system:

 

OS Name Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium

Version 6.1.7601 Service Pack 1 Build 7601

System Model DH77EB

Processor Intel® Pentium® CPU G2030 @ 3.00GHz, 3000 Mhz, 2 Core(s), 2 Logical Processor(s)

BIOS Version/Date Intel Corp. EBH7710H.86A.0101.2013.0516.1649, 5/16/2013

Adapter Description AMD Radeon HD 7700 Series <-- ASUS HD-7770 2GD5

Driver Version 13.251.0.0 <-- AMD_Catalyst_13.10_Beta_V2

- All Catalyst Control Panel 3D options are OFF or Use Application Settings

 

Skyrim Launcher --> Options

Ultra Preset (modified)

AA 2x

AF 16x

--> Advanced

High

High

High

None

- The only Option Box selected is Reflect Sky

 

Vanilla ini files EDIT: Except for registered bsa

 

I did not remove a 244 enbseries with RealVision, but set enblocal.ini:

 

[GLOBAL]

UsePatchSpeedhackWithoutGraphics=true

 

Good luck in finding needles in such a large haystack. My hat is off to you guys.

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Totally random observation - the "black" textures are not a solid black color. I forgot about the loose file I had added and went in-game to look at something else. Balgruuf and his brother had their black skins, but as I moved out of Dragonsreach and my point-of-view changed, so did their skin tone. I wound up outside Warmaidens and a loin-cloth clad Courier was just standing around. If I moved around him (and he didn't turn to face me) the black texture varied from black, to a lighter gray, to a much-lighter-than-normal skin texture complete with detail (hair, etc).

 

Its like the "normals" are not normal (perpendicular) to whatever surface (skin?) they're supposed to be normal to anymore. I don't know what a *_msn.dds does for a material/surface, but my "bad" one appears to affect surface reflection/emittance angles making the surface appear dark (black!) in most light-object-viewer relationships, but actually reach an almost normal (sic) appearance at some viewing angles. I have no point of reference for all this, so I can't be more precise. I only mention this in the hopes a 3D-guru might recognize the issue and, perhaps, know the cause and cure.

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Post processing should not be able to do this sort of stuff. If the textures are sound and open up in photoshop, gimp DDSopt view etc. and look fine outside of the game but not inside, then it is most likely the mesh that has some bad settings.

 

However I have never heard about a mesh being able to get bad settings and not just cause the engine to crash outright... so most likely the texture is just bad.

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Thanks for the additional information, it should help isolate the problem. By the way, are you currently using an ENB or lighting mod; these might affect this problem?

 

I only have DLC and UOP's installed in this setup along with a .244 enbseries with a tweaked RealVision in this Skyrim directory, but I currently have UsePatchSpeedHackWithoutGraphics=1 in my enblocal.ini.

 

I have been testing another setup with Sheson's mem patch, and another one with the Nexus SSME mod, and I am a little distracted from having a stable, highly modifiable Skyrim. :) (Kid-in-candy-store syndrome)

 

It seems the DDSopt Wiki process has changed a little since my OP and I have not optimized under the new procedure. Allow me a moment, and I will setup a pristine vanilla Skyrim (no ENB)/DLC/UOP environment, run the current DDSopt Wiki Guide, and report back. I'll keep my current DDSopt Working directory tree for comparison.

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Post processing should not be able to do this sort of stuff. If the textures are sound and open up in photoshop, gimp DDSopt view etc. and look fine outside of the game but not inside, then it is most likely the mesh that has some bad settings.

 

However I have never heard about a mesh being able to get bad settings and not just cause the engine to crash outright... so most likely the texture is just bad.

 

I never even thought to open the textures in Gimp. I have 2.8 with the DDS plugin.

 

The vanilla optimized STD texture (683KB) opens up and displays like a "normal" DDS normal map. 11 layers, RGB, 1024x1024

 

The vanilla optimized HRDLC3 texture (5462KB) opens up without a problem as an 11 layer RGB 1024x1024 image with mipmap layers, but only displays Gimp's default transparency background (checkerboard). A Histogram shows no image data whatsoever in any channel (Pixels: 0 Count: 0)

 

You have to prompt us lug-heads to perform the obvious much sooner.

 

FWIW

 

EDIT: Before you ask, the Vanilla Extracted HRDLC3 texture opens fine as an 11 layer, RGB, 2048x2048 image and looks like a "normal" DDS normal map.

 

EDIT2: I notice that the empty optimized (5462KB) image opens in Gimp WITH an Alpha channel (I can Remove it). The option to remove Alpha is not present in the original (Vanilla Extracted HRDLC3) texture.

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