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#16 z929669

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Posted 26 January 2015 - 06:52 PM

Yes good food for thought as we begin preparations for 2.3.0.

Keep the critiques coming everyone.

#17 oqhansoloqo

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Posted 06 February 2015 - 09:56 PM

With the current STEP Extended installation instructions, there is an issue with this file in Re-Defined Dungeons: candles01.dds.  It overwrites the same file in SMIM and ends up causing the melted wax base texture to go transparent.  The result of that is that candles look like they are floating above what they are supposed to be sitting on.  I resolved it by using MO's hide function on the file in Re-Defined Dungeons.  I don't know if it was the best way to fix it, but it sure looked better than how STEP Extended has it currently (without instructions on how to fix the issue).  I suggest that a note is added to the guide to do this, or another solution is used.

 

EDIT: Techangel just resolved this in the guide.


Edited by oqhansoloqo, 07 February 2015 - 05:25 PM.

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#18 knightshz

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 05:10 PM

It is intersting people are now discovering S.T.EP. like me but I went through your STEP guide thoroughly and noticed at the end it askes for me to say whether I downloaded everything from the step guide as I saw some mods not fit for me to have in my Load order. I am confused to what to do from here. extended no i didnt install everything core? Also please help me with formula i have a 4 gig 970 nvidia 3.5 and 5 gig breakdown now i know or would have never purchased this card. Anyways I also have 12 gig ram on pc so whatrs the formula for the enboost patch? 


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#19 knightshz

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 05:19 PM

 

STEP Users:
Please post your feedback on this thread.


Even better: Help implement your ideas by becoming a contributing member!

SabreCat's post following is what started this thread. SabreCat is a new member with great ideas.
- STEP admin 
I found STEP after several Google searches for "essential Skyrim mods" and "Skyrim modding FAQ". I was bowled over when I did discover it--the rigorous approach to producing a Skyrim experience that's stable, optimized, bugfixed, and true to the spirit of vanilla Skyrim, is exactly what I was looking for!

That said, there is always room for improvement in a project like this, so I'd like to share a few of my frustrations trying to follow the guidance of STEP 2.2.6, and ideas for how those frustrations could be mitigated. Take this in the spirit intended: "This is awesome, but it could be EVEN MORE SO."

1. The steps of STEP are not in sequential order.

I struggled mightily with understanding just what I was supposed to do with respect to the HRDLC. The Skyrim installation guide has an HRDLC tab, which talks about a mod to install, but it branches from a point in STEP where the user hasn't even installed any mod managers. I wanted to try "Repair the HRDLC textures," since my machine qualifies for baseline STEP at best, so I followed that link. It took me to an anchor talking about "Vanilla Extracted" folders and similar, which turned out to have been discussed earlier in the overall guide about DDSopt, which had not been previously mentioned following along with STEP.

The very acronym STEP suggests a step-by-step experience. It's fine and to be expected that there are a lot of steps--that's not my issue. It's that I can't proceed down the page line by line doing things, but instead have to wander and research any time I make a decision.

Suggestion: Make the flow of the page something like this...

  •  
  • Install Steam & Skyrim (link to detailed steps, starting from the beginning where the user hasn't installed the game)
  •  
  • or Reset Skyrim to Vanilla Install (link to detailed steps)
  • Optional: Install and Optimize HRDLC (link to detailed steps, starting from claiming the free DLC and installing optimization tools)
  • Set Skyrim Launcher Options (link to detailed steps)
  • ...
    [/list]
    Two principles to my suggestion: (1) Make the main STEP release page a barebones outline. Introductions and so forth are fine, of course, but I should be able to easily copy-paste a list that represents actions to check off. (2) Include links to details at every turn, and have those links take you to the beginning of that sub-process, not somewhere in the middle.

    2. STEP includes a great deal of extraneous commentary.

    Technical details about the why and how different tools function is interesting, and important for the modder who seeks greater expertise and a deeper understanding of the guts of Skyrim and of mods. However, the kind of information that user wants is so much noise for the user who just wants a how-to on building an awesome Skyrim experience. It helps to know that a BSA is a compressed folder and that unpacking them improves performance; that much explanation can curb any "why the hell are they making me jump through this hoop?" reaction. I don't, however, need to know the intricacies of what a mipmap is, how many different resolutions of textures exist, and exactly what mistakes Bethesda made in packaging up their game. Those things just slow me down in getting to the how-to information I really want.

    Suggestion: Move those things to sidebars and deeper links wherever possible. Approach each paragraph from the perspective of your most typical user, and ask the hard question "does this really need to be here?" Be ruthless!

    3. STEP isn't making full use of its standardized terminology.

    "Baseline STEP", "Performance STEP", and "Extreme STEP" are brilliant. I want to give them hugs and buy them presents on their birthdays. But there are places where STEP rehashes the differences between these approaches and makes the user choose from them over and over again.

    Suggestion: Use your established schemes wherever you can! That is, get all the discussion of VRAM and whatnot into that choice, up front, and never talk about specific system requirements ever again or elsewhere. There should not be a separate discussion of VRAM in my best buddy the HRDLC guide, for instance, just Performance STEP: do this, Baseline STEP: do that, Extreme STEP: do this other thing.

    4. STEP muddies the waters with unnecessary decision points.

    I'm mainly thinking about the mod-manager question here. Choose a mod manager solution and stick with it, relegating the other options to "here's how to tweak the STEP process for this other MM" pages. No "if using Wrye Bash, do this" in the middle of some other piece of setup procedure. If an optional process requires a specific mod manager, make that clear at the beginning of the page about that optional process, not halfway through.

    ...

    Does all that make sense? I'm still working through STEP installation, so I will no doubt come up with further ideas. If so, I'll add them in further posts here!
  • [/list]
    [/list]

 

Adding to your last suggestion I think they should definately create 2 different step guides one for mod organizer users and one for you ill fated mod manager old people users.


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#20 EssArrBee

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 06:00 PM

It is intersting people are now discovering S.T.EP. like me but I went through your STEP guide thoroughly and noticed at the end it askes for me to say whether I downloaded everything from the step guide as I saw some mods not fit for me to have in my Load order. I am confused to what to do from here. extended no i didnt install everything core? Also please help me with formula i have a 4 gig 970 nvidia 3.5 and 5 gig breakdown now i know or would have never purchased this card. Anyways I also have 12 gig ram on pc so whatrs the formula for the enboost patch? 

I'd say you need to list like 8GB for the enboost patch. You could probably even go up to 14GB if need be. The amount is listed in Megabytes though, so you need to convert it.

 

Just download the STEP Combined PluginHF and use that. THen get rid of the SMIM plugins.



#21 TechAngel85

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 06:36 PM

The proper formula is on the mod page and in the ENB Guide.

#22 FuzzRocket9

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Posted 16 August 2015 - 05:29 PM

I'll leave this here:

 

D3Doverrider link in the "3.A.4. Stuttering" section is dead.


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#23 d3monic

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Posted 22 September 2015 - 02:55 AM

In the process of completing STEP: Core, I've already spent a lot of time just completing up to 2.F. One clear reason for my inefficiency is that I'm a long-time NMM user switching to Mod Organizer for the first time, and I'm not used to ignoring files instead of just overwriting them in data/. Next, I've never opened TES5Edit or attempted to install an ENB before*. Third, I'm making informed choices along the way to make the install I want, and sometimes the "why" info isn't included where I want it.

 

That last thought is in direct opposition to the mindset of the OP. It wasn't until I found this thread that I learned that others want to experience the install process differently from me.

 

That's it from me until I've at least completed Core. I'll edit this post after.

 

* Yes, I realize it is discouraged to add an ENB this early in the process. I'm a software engineer and perhaps overly willing to risk shooting myself in the foot.


Edited by d3monic, 22 September 2015 - 02:55 AM.

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#24 TechAngel85

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Posted 22 September 2015 - 10:04 AM

Most of the "whys" are in the forum topics. This info is left out of the mod page as to not clutter them up.



#25 Starfield

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Posted 25 November 2015 - 06:22 PM

First off: Thanks for STEP!
 
I have known about STEP for some years already, but mostly used it to find the few mods I used. The release of USLEEP made me decide to go for a full clean install, and then I thought I might as well install core STEP. (Have installed everything in core except Skyrim Redesigned - too complicated to install, Better Shaped Weapons - I'll do that later, and DDO LOD - looks intimidating.)
 
STEP works well for me, no serious issues at all.
(EDIT: Made a test run through the Helgen intro until we exited the cave.)
 
However, I observed some minor issues and started taking notes on them, since I assume they can be of use to you.
Some are minor bugs, some are unclear instructions and some are notes based on my own preference on included/excluded mods.
 
=== 1.C. Install Utilities ===  <--- This feedback has been addressed.

- Skyrim Performance Monitor has a NMN link, so the instructions should explicitly mention that you aren't
supposed to install it with MO.


=== 1.D.1. Skyrim INI === <--- This feedback has been addressed.

- Grass section: Skyrim Flora Overhaul is in Core, the default recommendation for iMaxGrassTypesPerTexure
should hence be for SFO, with the non-SFO option mention in discussion.

=== 2.D. Fixes ===

- Cutting Room Floor
Clipping observed between Ralof's hands and clothes on the initial carriage ride.
First noticed at some point before 2.H, but after 2.D.
Caused by the Stormcloak Cuirass (sleeved version) in Cutting Room Floor, or present in vanilla?
Check! Confirmed - If Ralof spawn without sleeves - no issues, but if his outfit has sleeves then there are clipping problems.
Looks like his outfit is randomly picked between sleeved and sleeveless with this mod.

- Enhanced Lighting for ENB-LITE <--- This feedback has been addressed.
No LooT metarules mention on the instruction page, even if they are listed down on 2.O. So, one is incorrect, which one? I assumed that it's still needed.

- SKSE-Elys-AltF4
Instructions for adding log file needs to be added to wiki. (To prevent it from showing up in Overwrite all the time)

- Realistic Ragdolls and Force
This is the first mod I would be tempted to add after I have installed Core.
The amazing rubber ball corpses on Skyrim are immersion breaking.
Is the issues discussed on its forum page the reason it isn't in Core, or why?
Right now the risk of issues means that I'm cautious about installing it.

=== 2.H. Characters & Creatures === <--- This feedback has been addressed.

- 83Willows 101BugsHD & PondFish and Salmon Replacer are both non-Core, however the install instructions for
Wiseman303s Critter Fixes (Core) assumes both are installed.

=== 2.I. Clothing & Equipment ===

- AMidianBorn Book of Silence
aMidianBorn_ContentAddon.esp needs to be manually checked in the Plugin list - this instruction is missing. If this is not done,
then the STEP_Compilation install will not detect CORE. (Add at step 7 in first MO instruction box)

=== 2.J. Animations & Effects ===

- Animated Clutted
Slows down looting a lot. Will it be too annoying to keep installed?

- Better Turn Animation. <--- This feedback has been addressed.
"If not using the BCF provided, delete the following files" So How do I know if I use something called a BCF?
And why not just hide them in MO?

- General note: Adding the Core mods in section 2.J seems to have slowed down loading times a lot.

=== 2.K. Clutter & Miscellaneous ===

- Septim HD
Looks too modern, like it was made during industrialization instead of before.

- Skyrim Redesigned
This one required jumping through too many hoops to get installed, couldn't bother.
(Had some issues with 7z that I couldn't figure out until afterward, and the manual option seemed also problematic due to not knowing how to set multiple data directories.)
 
- Soul Gems Differ <--- This feedback has been addressed.
Installation instructions too vague, I shouldn't have had to go to UESP to check if soul gems have weight or not in vanilla.

=== 2.L. Sounds === <--- This feedback has been addressed.

- Audio Overhaul for Skyrim
Why is the LooT rule listed as STEP:Extended only? Both Audio Overhaul and Smooth Blade Draw and Sheathe are in Core.

=== 2.M. Gameplay ===

- Not So Fast-Main Quest
This is second non-core mod I consider adding. The stolen horn, and the forced meddling in the civil war are two
annoyances for me.

- Skyrim-Community-Uncapper
Should it really be Core? Especially since Bethesda provided another way to keep leveling.

=== 2.N. Patches ===

- STEP Compilation
Something is missing. No message on what is missing. At this point I want to give up.
Problem found - aMidianBorn_ContentAddon.esp not checked. - This step is missing from the install instructions for AMidianBorn_Book_of_Silence.
Also, what should be the load order after the merge? Up at the top where the STEP Optimized Vanilla Textures were, or here down at the bottom?
Note to self: Reinstall if adding Realistic Ragdolls and Force.

- Bashed Patch
We were earlier told to deactivate Unofficial High Resolution Patch.esp, so the ALL plugins having to be active is incorrect?

 
Hope you find these notes useful in improving the STEP experience.

Edited by TechAngel85, 30 November 2015 - 12:19 AM.

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#26 elwaps

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Posted 25 November 2015 - 06:30 PM

A little feedback to the feedback:

 

2. STEP includes a great deal of extraneous commentary.

Technical details about the why and how different tools function is interesting, and important for the modder who seeks greater expertise and a deeper understanding of the guts of Skyrim and of mods. However, the kind of information that user wants is so much noise for the user who just wants a how-to on building an awesome Skyrim experience. It helps to know that a BSA is a compressed folder and that unpacking them improves performance; that much explanation can curb any "why the hell are they making me jump through this hoop?" reaction. I don't, however, need to know the intricacies of what a mipmap is, how many different resolutions of textures exist, and exactly what mistakes Bethesda made in packaging up their game. Those things just slow me down in getting to the how-to information I really want.

Suggestion: Move those things to sidebars and deeper links wherever possible. Approach each paragraph from the perspective of your most typical user, and ask the hard question "does this really need to be here?" Be ruthless!

Please don't move detailed explanations into the Oblivion of the Wiki. How about differently colored boxes (perhaps marked with "background knowledge" or "did you know?" or something) with additional info that isn't essentially needed for a basic STEP install? Those explanations help me here and there when it comes to installing stuff on top of a STEP install, which probably most of us will do. The more we know about the mechanics behind, the less compatibility issues we're gonna have afterwards.


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#27 Tarvok

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Posted 28 November 2015 - 01:18 AM

STEP Optimized Vanilla Textures link (section 2D) leads to all the various STEP patches. I hit the NMM download button and got the Compilation file instead of the Vanilla Textures. I figured it out, but this step could use some clarification.


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#28 TechAngel85

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Posted 28 November 2015 - 01:44 AM

Refresh your browser. Those patches are no longer available on our Nexus page.



#29 Tarvok

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Posted 28 November 2015 - 10:48 AM

I hit "refresh". No change. I deleted cookies, cache, and browsing history. No change. They totally are... or at least something claiming to be the patches are there. (Both STEP Optimized Vanilla Textures under 2.D. and Step Compilation under 2.N. lead to that same link.)

Also, there are a number of mods listed as Core mods that say that ENBoost users can skip that file. Should there even *be* any Core installations that lack ENBoost? Should those files even be in the guide?


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#30 TechAngel85

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Posted 28 November 2015 - 10:56 AM

STEP Optimized Vanilla Textures link (section 2D) leads to all the various STEP patches. I hit the NMM download button and got the Compilation file instead of the Vanilla Textures. I figured it out, but this step could use some clarification.

 

 

I hit "refresh". No change. I deleted cookies, cache, and browsing history. No change. They totally are... or at least something claiming to be the patches are there. (Both STEP Optimized Vanilla Textures under 2.D. and Step Compilation under 2.N. lead to that same link.)

Also, there are a number of mods listed as Core mods that say that ENBoost users can skip that file. Should there even *be* any Core installations that lack ENBoost? Should those files even be in the guide?

No patches on the page... Just the 3 files like there should be.

 

wI1s4b2.jpg




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