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#16 Besidilo

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 05:00 AM

[quote name=''frihyland' pid='4701' dateline='1336959645'][quote='Besidilo' pid='4673' dateline='1336952044']Just to clear up a bit on it' date=' I have no idea what others are talking about when it comes to UAC and issues with Skyrim, I have none, and both Skyrim and Steam are on separate drives (physically).[/quote']Thats the point and what I recommend, by default steam and skyrim is installed in program files which is controlled by the UAC.[/quote]Well, that makes more sense now. I obviously keep my folders organised and games are kept in a separate folder to avoid any issues with permissions.

Either way, GameSave Manager works great with Steam and I highly recommend it.
 
[quote='stoppingby4now' pid='4694' dateline='1336958286']I'm going to chime in with regards to HDD and Raid 0. It will absolutely improve sequential reads and writes (Skyrim will be primarily reads), and will allow you to hit about 2/3 of the bandwidth cap of SATAII (with diligent de-fragmenting). Raid 0 will NOT assist you in random reads and writes, the performance is still horrible and sub 1MB/s (you might be able to break 1MB/s with 10K drives). Fortunately, random reads and write aren't as common as sequential for most general use. One of the most noticeable times when you can see a vast improvement from moving from HDD to SDD in regards to random reads is when booting Windows.
[/quote]I saw evidence of SOME improvement in random reads and writes but it's mostly noticeable with larger files.

Fast sequential reads will not help in many games, I don't know how Skyrim loads its data so that may be one title that would benefit from Raid 0.

In any case, SSDs manage much better loading times than any HDDs in Raid (0, 5) configs.
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#17 MadWizard25

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 05:29 AM

I dont use UAC at all, fully disabled as i trust my other constellation of security apps. However, just a thought question; if you have a secondary hdd drive that is not the OS drive, is formated, will creating a Program Files folder on that HDD cause that folder to inherit folder/ UAC rules that apply to the primary OS drive Program Files folder?
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#18 stoppingby4now

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 07:17 AM

[quote name=''Besidilo' pid='4748' dateline='1336989608'][quote='stoppingby4now' pid='4694' dateline='1336958286']I'm going to chime in with regards to HDD and Raid 0. It will absolutely improve sequential reads and writes (Skyrim will be primarily reads)' date=' and will allow you to hit about 2/3 of the bandwidth cap of SATAII (with diligent de-fragmenting). Raid 0 will NOT assist you in random reads and writes, the performance is still horrible and sub 1MB/s (you might be able to break 1MB/s with 10K drives). Fortunately, random reads and write aren't as common as sequential for most general use. One of the most noticeable times when you can see a vast improvement from moving from HDD to SDD in regards to random reads is when booting Windows.[/quote']I saw evidence of SOME improvement in random reads and writes but it's mostly noticeable with larger files.Fast sequential reads will not help in many games, I don't know how Skyrim loads its data so that may be one title that would benefit from Raid 0.
In any case, SSDs manage much better loading times than any HDDs in Raid (0, 5) configs.
[/quote]Well that depends on how you are measuring improvement. 4K random reads on most single drive 7500 RPM drives averages 0.55MB/s. Jump to a WD raptor 10K RPM drive and you can get an average of 0.72MB/s. In my case, testing on a single Hitachi Deskstar 7500, I get an average of 0.58MB/s. With two of the same model drives in RAID0, I get an average of 0.78MB/s. That's a 26% increase, but it's still crap.

But in general desktop use, for games or otherwise, at least 70% of the HDD's time is spent doing sequential reads. And I'm not disputing that SSD's are much better. Even the cheapest/slowest SSD's will knock the socks off a HDD, though even those types of drives have shown to suffer performance problems as they fill up.

#19 bpr5016

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 04:56 PM

I'm actually buying 2 of the mushkin drives one for windows and one for games. Just pick the size you can afford, the larger the size the more games you will be able to have installed at once. The 60GB one is just as fast as the rest so it may be all that you need.

Keep in mind that these drives are only likely to be reliable for about 3 years then they will start degrading. If you want something that lasts longer buy one with a 5 year manufacturer warranty it will cost quite a bit more.

Make sure your motherboard supports AHCI natively, you will have to look that up on their website. If not you will be missing out on a lot of the benefits of using the SSD.

You will definitely want to keep your regular HD to install regular programs and to store stuff like all your music and videos on.

This is what I needed to hear! Thanks frihyland. I'm pretty sure I have a PEGATRON mATX (9.6" x 9.6") mobo, how do I check if it will support AHCI natively? I tried a quick search of the web but didn't find anything definite. I did discover that my mobo manufacturer Pegatron is a subsidiary of ASUSTeK Computer Inc (source) and not some cheap knock-off from Taiwan.

The mushkin drives you mentioned sound great though, definitely interested in the 60GB one. Would this show up in my computer folder as a separate drive when it's installed? Like in addition to the (C: ) and (D: ) drives I have listed? Sorry if these questions are basic / obvious, this is all sort of new to me. Thanks!

Edit: formatting
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#20 frihyland

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 08:06 PM

Depends on your motherboard most will need to be configured to use the new drive, in any case you will need to go in and enable AHCI as it is disabled by default. You will need to look up your motherboard and follow the manual to do this, you should do this before you buy an SSD to make sure it will work for you.
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#21 Besidilo

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 04:27 AM

Depends on your motherboard most will need to be configured to use the new drive, in any case you will need to go in and enable AHCI as it is disabled by default. You will need to look up your motherboard and follow the manual to do this, you should do this before you buy an SSD to make sure it will work for you.

He won't be able to boot into Windows from his current drive if he hasn't had AHCI enabled until now.
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#22 frihyland

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 04:48 AM



Depends on your motherboard most will need to be configured to use the new drive, in any case you will need to go in and enable AHCI as it is disabled by default. You will need to look up your motherboard and follow the manual to do this, you should do this before you buy an SSD to make sure it will work for you.

He won't be able to boot into Windows from his current drive if he hasn't had AHCI enabled until now.

That is correct. That will only occur if you install a drive without turning on AHCI and then try and turn it on later, it is a bug in Windows 7. The fix is to first edit the registry to load the ahci driver, and then install the new drive and turn on the ahci in bios. Serious PITA.
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#23 Vond

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 04:55 PM

So after the discussion few days ago in the CPU Affinity thread I decided I'd look into buying a new cooler for my CPU. Money is very much an issue currently (sadly) but I figured I can get something quite cheap that still beats the stock-cooling by far. Found the Cooler Master Hyper TX3 and Akasa AK-968 X4 Performance for example which are very cheap and had good reviews on the site where I always order from, but figured I'd post here in this thread and see if anyone had some knowledge/experience with those, or other coolers in the same pricerange. They're almost 4x cheaper than the Cooler Master V8 for example. Thanks! Edit: Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo also looks nice for the price, so add that to list I'm asking about ;)
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#24 frihyland

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 05:36 PM

I really like the vertical design of the hyper 212 evo and the copper heatpipes converge at cpu contact to a single copper base, if you have the headroom in your case I'd say that is a winner. It's also a brand I have had good experience with, owned several cases and cpu fans and been happy. The tx3 is designed for a bigger socket, and the akasa as well. (I'm assuming you have 1155 socket cpu)
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#25 Vond

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 05:49 PM

I have a socket 1156 mobo I believe, not 1155, and checked that all of those had Socket 1156 supported. But yeah, I think I like the sound of the hyper 212 best personally. Was ofcourse the only one out-of-stock at the site I usually order from, time to pull up pricerunner.se I guess to find best price ;)

http://www.gigabyte....spx?pid=3311#sp is my mobo btw, says 1156 there aswell when I doublechecked
http://www.fractal-d...egory=2&prod=71 is my case, says it supports CPU coolers with height of ~165mm which should be fine I believe, even if barely (that cooler is 159mm)
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#26 frihyland

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 05:52 PM

tossup then, I think the 212 would be marginally better still tho, just a guess.
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#27 z929669

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 05:54 PM

I have a socket 1156 mobo I believe, not 1155, and checked that all of those had Socket 1156 supported. But yeah, I think I like the sound of the hyper 212 best personally. Was ofcourse the only one out-of-stock at the site I usually order from, time to pull up pricerunner.se I guess to find best price ;)

http://www.gigabyte....spx?pid=3311#sp is my mobo btw, says 1156 there aswell when I doublechecked

yep, you should have 1156 like me.



Most of those CM coolers will come with adapters for either 1155/6

What kind of case do you have?

#28 Vond

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 05:55 PM

Just edited this in my prev post but will post it here aswell, my case says it supports coolers of ~~165mm and the hyper 212 is 159mm. That sounds like cutting it quite close esp with the "~~" they added infront of 165mm. Should be fine still I suppose? http://www.fractal-d...egory=2&prod=71
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#29 frihyland

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 06:00 PM

yikes thats too close, I'd look for something around 150mm in that case. 6mm clearance doesn't seem realistic. Open your case and take a look at what its gonna hit though, you might be able to remove it.
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#30 z929669

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 06:04 PM

Yep, you will be fine   EDIT: I should qualify considering fri's post: My CM uses a transversly-positioned fan, so clearance from side of case to top of fan is not an issue, since air is sucked in from the side and blown out the other. You should check that. I suspect that it is transverse, and that is a good sign since it is a big old fan ;) Also, I suspect that the 6mm clearance allows a buffer in addition as well.



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