TES5Edit - Which record types DON'T need conflict patches

[Neovalen]

EDID is also used for coc console commands iirc.

 

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[keithinhanoi]

EDID is also used for coc console commands iirc.

 

I asked about EDID records, and Arthmoor confirmed this, though he cautions against using coc or any console commands as a way to "play" the game.

 

Interestingly, Arthmoor explained that the addition of or change to an EDID can be used as a way to avoid TES5Edit flagging any intentional ITM records for cleaning. Clearly a good technique to be aware of by any mod authors. Also, he said that EDID sub-records are useful for Papyrus auto-fill - another modding technique.

 

However, coming back to the topic of my original post - from the standpoint of an end-user (player) trying to do conflict resolution by making a conflict patch plugin in TES5Edit, there's no real need to forward EDID sub-records into the patch plugin.

 

So, I think EDID sub-records could be added to the list, but along with the caveats that Arthmoor has mentioned.

[EssArrBee]

From doing these new patches for AOS v2 it looks like RDSA is a candidate for merging at start up.

 

EDIT: Also, check out WNAM, RPLI, RPLD.

[keithinhanoi]

Region record data needs conflict management, and if you look at how sounds are added to regions by the DLC's you'll see that the entire vanilla list is repeated and then any new sounds are added. If a later plugin removes some sounds from the list, they won't be used in-game, so you'd need to re-combine them in a compatibility patch.

 

I've also asked Arthmoor about WNAM records and Region Data, and he said they definitely follow the normal "last one loaded rules all" rule of load order.

 

Interestingly, although I've had some arguments with the authors of one particular mod (who will remain unamed), Arthmoor also confirmed that scripts attached to NPCs or objects - including the "Prisoner" player character (ID 00000007) - using a VMAD record, also require conflict management.

 

This is to say that if two mods attach scripts to your ("Prisoner") PC, even if the scripts are of different names, only the one from the later loading mod is used. And if the last-loading plugin which edits that NPC record has VMAD entries, then no scripts get attached.

 

This is a bit annoying because I've found a number of mods that use scripts to assign FormIDs at run-time, and their VMAD data for some NPCs includes FormIDs with unresolved references, which means TES5Edit will refuse to copy override the data.

 

By the way, the only way to be aware of unresolved references in a plugin is to either use the Check for Errors contextual menu feature, or to happen to notice them while looking at the record in question.

Edited April 8, 2014 by keithinhanoi

[nomar]

is there anyway when applying a filter with tes5edit to hide these subrecords?

[miran]

Thanks to all of you, and those you have referrenced for all this.

[EssArrBee]

The OP says that other Location types not listed need conflict resolution. Does that mean Regions as well? XLCR in particular. I think it may be one that merges since each instance seems not to overwrite others.

[keithinhanoi]

The OP says that other Location types not listed need conflict resolution. Does that mean Regions as well? XLCR in particular. I think it may be one that merges since each instance seems not to overwrite others.

Can you give a specific example? I can't seem to find any where it looks like it may be merging at run-time.

 

Better yet, post this question on Arthmoor's thread - because honestly, I don't know the answer here - and I can't find any information by googling.

[Kuldebar]

I have a few MHTD red entries between some mods...are those non-issues? (I suspect they are, but I didn't see the entry listed in this thread.)

[Kuldebar]

A simple WORLD patch by RdX995

 

 

DESC:

I'm using quite a lot of mods. Realy, a lot. And, sometimes, all those mods come with a problem. Some are made for Vanilla skyrim and have a wrong MaxHeighData value. The problem is, this value is in long HEX and you can't simply edit it and copy/pase it into a little patch. You have to make an override from a default setting (like Dawnguard or Dragonborn, I chose USKP Dragonborn) and make a new plugin. And this is what you get. A 50 kB file.

WHY ?

I'm using RLO @ the momment. And Frostfall. So I need RealShelter as well. What's strange is, RealShelter, the DLC version (full support for all DLCs) comes with no MaxHeightData in it, and makes you unavailable to access Isle of Castle Volkihiar (I hope that's the name). Result is , after using Ice Watter Jetty you just get 2 loading screens and stand where you were @ the first place.
The same problem is with Coins of Tamriel, Quaxes Winterhold Rebuilt and so on and so on. What really happens is that MHD is overwritten by NOTHING and you can't acces Dayspring Canyon, Castle Volkihiar or return to Skyrim from Morowinds Solhsteim Island. This should fix it. Please note that for CTDs ( crash to desktop ) and ILS ( infinite loading screens ) you should use Skyrim Memory Patch, as the game engine blocks it self up with it's own memory management.

 

[keithinhanoi]

A simple WORLD patch by RdX995

Yeah, I saw that too - thanks for pointing it out (and answering your own question!  )

 

Well, this confirms that MaxHeightData (MHDT) is a record type that does need conflict patching if a later-loading plugin blanks out the data needed for DG/DB to work properly.

 

EDIT:And... it would seem it's not necessary after all.

Edited June 2, 2014 by keithinhanoi

[Kuldebar]

keithinhanoi, on 23 May 2014 - 10:52 PM, said:keithinhanoi, on 23 May 2014 - 10:52 PM, said:

Yeah, I saw that too - thanks for pointing it out (and answering your own question!  )

 

Well, this confirms that MaxHeightData (MHDT) is a record type that does need conflict patching if a later-loading plugin blanks out the data needed for DG/DB to work properly.

Wait...now just cuz there's a mod out...is this mod necessary if you have a bash patch?

 

STEP Patches for Packs:

 

Ignore any XCLW - Water Height conflicts or MHDT - Max Height Data conflicts. These do not affect anything in game.

 

Edited May 24, 2014 by Kuldebar

[EssArrBee]

You need to make sure the DB MHDT is in the last column of the Worldspace->0000003C record. Just drag and drop it to your last loading plugin with that record. Also, forward any other records the same way if there are conflicts.

[Kuldebar]

EssArrBee, on 23 May 2014 - 11:01 PM, said:

You need to make sure the DB MHDT is in the last column of the Worldspace->0000003C record. Just drag and drop it to your last loading plugin with that record. Also, forward any other records the same way if there are conflicts.

OK...that sounds easy but with 171 mods...I'm uncertain how to figure out how to tell which mod is editing the record last....ok I load all my mods up in TessEdit...then select DB and highlight the MHDT...look for the last conflicting record entry and copy DB's value to that field.

 

What awful things happen if this isn't sorted out, and why after 2+ years am I just hearing about this seemingly prevalent conflict? o.O

 

OK, I moved all the DB World Space entries to the respective last conflicting mods.

Edited May 24, 2014 by Kuldebar

[EssArrBee]

OK...that sounds easy but with 171 mods...I'm uncertain how to figure out how to tell which mod is editing the record last....ok I load all my mods up in TessEdit...then select DB and highlight the MHDT...look for the last conflicting record entry and copy DB's value to that field.

 

What awful things happen if this isn't sorted out, and why after 2+ years am I just hearing about this seemingly prevalent conflict? o.O

Read the last paragraph of the quote you posted. You can't access certain places. Honestly, I don't think people knew what was causing the bug. I always thought those places would get cutoff from the player because people had nav mesh data overwriting itself.

 

It's easy to use TES5Edit with all the mods loaded. Plus, the records show up with either red text or back ground if they are in conflict so you don't have to go through every Worldspace record. That would take until next week to finish.