Requesting Help in Understanding a Few Things About STEP

[AddictedxGamer]

Hi,

 

I'm looking to get some clarification on a few things about STEP.  I'll start with some basic information that you may need to know to be of assistance.  If you don't need it, just ignore it.

 

My PC Specs

CPU: Intel Core i5-4670K 3.4GHz (not overclocked)

GPU: Sapphire Vapor-X Radeon HD 7970 GHz Edition 3GB DDR5 (not overclocked)

RAM: 8GB DDR3

SSD: Samsung 840-Series 250GB

 

 

Skyrim Installation Information

Directory: C:Program Files (x86)SteamSteamAppscommonSkyrim

Free Space: 119GB

 

 

Modding Utilities Information

Nexus Mod Manager Directory: C:Program Files (x86)Nexus Mod Manager

Mod Directory: E:My FilesGamingPCMods for Skyrim and FalloutMods

Install Info Directory: EMy FilesGamingPCMods for Skyrim and FalloutInstall Info

 

Mod Organizer Directory: EProgram Files (x86)Mod Organizer

Download Directory: E:My FilesGamingPCMods for Skyrim and FalloutMods

Mod Directory: E:Program Files (x86)Mod Organizermods

Cache Directory: E:Program Files (x86)Mod Organizerwebcache

 

BOSS Directory: C:Program Files (x86)SteamSteamAppscommonSkyrimBOSS

 

LOOT Directory: C:Program Files (x86)SteamSteamAppscommonSkyrimLOOT

 

Wrye Bash Directory: C:Program Files (x86)SteamSteamAppscommonSkyrimWrye Bash

 

TES5Edit Directory: E:My FilesGamingPCThe Elder Scrolls V - SkyrimTES5 Edit

 

SKSE Version: 1.07.01 (latest release)

 

 

I have the Legendary edition of the game, so all of the DLC is installed.  The master files (Update, Dawnguard, Dragonborn and Hearthfire) have been cleaned with TES5Edit.  It is also a clean installation (I just finished downloading the game from Steam again).  I copied the directory into a zip archive for future usage.  I've also already installed ENBoost and configured the Memory Patch via the SKSE.ini file.

 

1) Will STEP really help bring me a stable game?  

 

I've been told by people over on the Nexus Forums that STEP isn't nearly as effective as it claims to be.  These people say that in the past, when it was run by "The Compiler," it really did make your game stable and reduce crashes to none in many cases.  Now, they say it's more about turning your game into what you (the STEP Staff) think it should be; that the focus is less on stability and more on customization.

 

 

2) When installing STEP, what is the proper order of installation?  I know that the Core Mods are to be installed in the order they are presented, but what about the mods not marked by the green bar?  I assume those are the mods used for STEP:Extended.  Are they meant to be installed DURING the installation of STEP:Core, or AFTER the initial installation of STEP:Core?

 

For example, at the bottom of section 2.D. Fixes there are 3 mods not marked with a green bar; Complete Crafting Overhaul Remade, Realistic Ragdolls and Force, and XP32 Maximum Skeleton.  Are those meant to be installed right after the mods before it in that section (2.D. Fixes), or do I install all of the Core Mods in every section first, then go back to the top of the page and install the remaining mods not marked with a green bar?  Also, are those mods what make up STEP:Extended, or is STEP:Extended limited to what's presented in the STEP:Extended Pack page?

 

 

3) What are the limitations on mods that can be installed after STEP?

 

I have a lengthy list of mods I'd like to use in my game.  Many of them are covered by STEP:Core and STEP:Extended, but many aren't.  For example, I want to use Frostfall and iNeed.  I'd also like to use Immersive Armors and Immersive Weapons, but they aren't in STEP:Core, STEP:Extended, or even any of the additional STEP Packs...  How do I know which mods I can and can't install without jeopardizing my stability?

 

 

4) How and when do I test the mods that I've installed?

 

When testing the game for stability, is it to be done via a typical stress test; i.e. flying around the world?  Should testing be performed after each mod is installed, after each category is installed, or after STEP:Core is fully installed?

 

 

I'm sorry if this is a complete newbie post, but I've never been able to run a stable game before.  This is likely because I would install mods at random without properly reading their "Read Me" files or testing the game after installing them.  I know now that I was going about it completely wrong, but I want to make sure that I do everything right this time.  If I'm to use STEP, I need to be clear as to exactly how to do everything.

 

Thank you!  :)

[DoubleYou]

1. Yes, STEP, will bring you a stable game, provided that you follow it correctly. If you have instability, simply post a thread in our Support forum, and we shall try to help you to the best of our ability. As to turning the game into what we think it ought to be, that depends on your modding goals. If you want Skyrim to look modernized, than yes, we are not emulating your goals. If you want Skyrim to look like the style that Bethesda put into it, but look way better and run way better, than that indeed is what we have tried to accomplish. As to customization, I see nothing wrong with customization. After all, everyone loves MCM menus with all the customizations you can make.

 

2. If you only wish to install STEP Core, only install the green mods. If you wish to install STEP Extended, install all mods. If you want to install both, Install STEP Extended first, copy the STEP Extended profile into a new STEP Core profile, deselect all non-green mods, and change the options for those mods that have different instructions between Core and Extended.

 

3. There are virtually no limitations to what mods you can install after STEP. All the mods you mention will work perfectly. Always check the compatibility sections for the mods you wish to add to see if there are any potential problems.

 

4. I typically test by playing the game. There are many tests that people have developed, but only after actually playing the game will many issues come to light.

[AddictedxGamer]

1. Yes, STEP, will bring you a stable game, provided that you follow it correctly. If you have instability, simply post a thread in our Support forum, and we shall try to help you to the best of our ability. As to turning the game into what we think it ought to be, that depends on your modding goals. If you want Skyrim to look modernized, than yes, we are not emulating your goals. If you want Skyrim to look like the style that Bethesda put into it, but look way better and run way better, than that indeed is what we have tried to accomplish. As to customization, I see nothing wrong with customization. After all, everyone loves MCM menus with all the customizations you can make.

 

2. If you only wish to install STEP Core, only install the green mods. If you wish to install STEP Extended, install all mods. If you want to install both, Install STEP Extended first, copy the STEP Extended profile into a new STEP Core profile, deselect all non-green mods, and change the options for those mods that have different instructions between Core and Extended.

 

3. There are virtually no limitations to what mods you can install after STEP. All the mods you mention will work perfectly. Always check the compatibility sections for the mods you wish to add to see if there are any potential problems.

 

4. I typically test by playing the game. There are many tests that people have developed, but only after actually playing the game will many issues come to light.

1) I suppose it's only natural for some people to try and steer me away from STEP while others try to steer me towards it; opinions vary from person to person.  STEP is very well-written and seems to have a lot of time and effort put into it, so I suppose it works to create a stable game seeing how it's as popular as it is.  As for my end result, I want to stick close to what the game developers initially created, while making it look and feel more realistic.  This is why I like to use mods that make things feel more real; Frostfall, Deadly Combat, Deadly Dragons, Dragon Combat Overhaul, iNeed, etc.

 

2) You've completely confused me here...  I wish to install both STEP:Core and STEP:Extended, but now I haven't the faintest idea how to install them both.  :(

 

3) Alright.  

 

4) Do you test after installing a mod, after installing an entire category, or after installing everything?  Noting about how long to test for would be helpful as well.

 

Thank you!  :)

[deadbody]

2) If you wish to install both, just install all the mods in the guide. That's what DoubleYou said as well, what he said afterwards was about when you want both a Core AND an Extended profile in MO, but you just want Extended, so just install all the mods.

 

4) A way of (performance-)stability testing the game would be the following method:

 

- start a new game with your desired finished mod setup or after a installing a mod category. (If following the Step guide carefully, testing after installing all mods should suffice).

- play through the Helgen sequence and after exiting Helgen save the game

- open the console and type the following commands without the ""

- "tgm" for god mode

- "tcl" for clipping

- "player.setav speedmult 1500", 15 times the normal movement speed (default is 100)

- now you should be able to "fly" around

- fly around skyrim in slightly abobe mountain altitude for 3-5 minutes

- stutters and short freezes are normal

- if your game crashes or your pc freezes completey, something is unstable, if not, chance are good your game is stable from a performance point of view

[Aiyen]

deadbody: Just a slight change to your method.. instead of doing the whole intro you can just open the console from the main menu and type "coc riverwood" and you get in game with the default char and then do the flying or running thing. In fact running is "better" then flying since when you run you also trigger enemies etc. which puts more scripting on etc. In general I find that a speedmult of only 500 is better then the flying... 

 

Overall during installation you only really need to test if you can start the game at all. This ensures that you got all masters placed correctly etc. After that you can go coc from the main menu and run about at various locations and see if everything looks normal. Finally you can do a quick play with godmode on from the helgen intro and up to the first dragon kill. Most general issues if any will be apparent doing that. Ofc. later you might find the odd bug etc. but then you can always come back and ask about it. 

 

 

As for the installation of CORE vs Extended... 

For CORE: Only stuff with green on them 

For extended All of the things. 

 

You can just install all of the things, and then manually only select the mods with green on them later. 

 

hope that helps a little bit more. 

[deadbody]

I knew there had to be a better way! That should save me a lot of time in the future..

 

Also the running vs flying sounds reasonably more suited as well, so thanks for correcting!

[AddictedxGamer]

2) If you wish to install both, just install all the mods in the guide. That's what DoubleYou said as well, what he said afterwards was about when you want both a Core AND an Extended profile in MO, but you just want Extended, so just install all the mods.

 

4) A way of (performance-)stability testing the game would be the following method:

 

- start a new game with your desired finished mod setup or after a installing a mod category. (If following the Step guide carefully, testing after installing all mods should suffice).

- play through the Helgen sequence and after exiting Helgen save the game

- open the console and type the following commands without the ""

- "tgm" for god mode

- "tcl" for clipping

- "player.setav speedmult 1500", 15 times the normal movement speed (default is 100)

- now you should be able to "fly" around

- fly around skyrim in slightly abobe mountain altitude for 3-5 minutes

- stutters and short freezes are normal

- if your game crashes or your pc freezes completey, something is unstable, if not, chance are good your game is stable from a performance point of view

Oh, I get what he meant now.  I didn't realize he was referring to if I wanted to have different profiles within the Mod Organizer.  That's what confused me, haha.  :P

 

Your posted method of stress testing the game is exactly how I currently do it.  Only, I don't fly around at mountain altitude; I fly down and discover locations, trigger enemies into attack mode, etc.  It increases the number of scripts running to really check for stability.

 

Before doing a fresh installation, my vanilla game would still crash during the stress test.  Sometimes it would be a minute into it, others a few minutes in, or sometimes not at all.  It was rather erratic and most of them couldn't be accurately reproduced (I take the same "route" every time for the most part).  That's why I did a fresh download and install of the game; to verify that there were no corrupted files.  The vanilla game should never crash during these tests from what I've read.

 

Thanks!

 

deadbody: Just a slight change to your method.. instead of doing the whole intro you can just open the console from the main menu and type "coc riverwood" and you get in game with the default char and then do the flying or running thing. In fact running is "better" then flying since when you run you also trigger enemies etc. which puts more scripting on etc. In general I find that a speedmult of only 500 is better then the flying... 

 

Overall during installation you only really need to test if you can start the game at all. This ensures that you got all masters placed correctly etc. After that you can go coc from the main menu and run about at various locations and see if everything looks normal. Finally you can do a quick play with godmode on from the helgen intro and up to the first dragon kill. Most general issues if any will be apparent doing that. Ofc. later you might find the odd bug etc. but then you can always come back and ask about it. 

 

 

As for the installation of CORE vs Extended... 

For CORE: Only stuff with green on them 

For extended All of the things. 

 

You can just install all of the things, and then manually only select the mods with green on them later. 

 

hope that helps a little bit more. 

Thanks for clarifying on the installation order.  This is what was confusing me the most.

 

Just to be absolutely sure, you're saying that if I'm installing STEP:Core (essential) AND STEP:Extended, I just install and activate every mod (green bar and non-green bar) in the order they're presented.  Right?  

 

One other question I just thought of...  Weapons and Armor Fixes Remade (I believe that's the mod) has options for Immersive Weapons and aMidianBorn, but they're not used in STEP.  Seeing as I want to use those mods, what do I do?  Should I deviate from the STEP installation order and install those two mods right before Weapons and Armor Fixes, and toggle the options for them in the FOMOD menu?  Or should I toggle the options for them and save their installation until after I've fully installed STEP:Core and Extended?   :confused:

[Aiyen]

Yes extended = all the things! 

 

As for the weapons mod question then I am sure one of the packs already include that. So you can perhaps use those as a guideline. If not then I am sure someone else will chip in with those details! 

 

 

Even the vanilla game is not 100% stable when you do stress tests... sometimes it just CTD. Skyrim is a complex game... when you mod it gets even more complex, and issues will be there. 

 

You should always do multiple tests.. and then look at the general picture they paint. If you get mostly stable runs then all is most likely good. If you only get quick CTD´s then something is off. 

Also another reason to be running and not flying is that the AI behaves weirdly with its pathfinding and animation etc. when you fly and they try to attack you sometimes. This in itself is a rather unstable act. (For example dragons will fly with their heads between their legs and spew fire at you in that position if you fly... sometimes.)

[AddictedxGamer]

Yes extended = all the things! 

 

As for the weapons mod question then I am sure one of the packs already include that. So you can perhaps use those as a guideline. If not then I am sure someone else will chip in with those details! 

 

 

Even the vanilla game is not 100% stable when you do stress tests... sometimes it just CTD. Skyrim is a complex game... when you mod it gets even more complex, and issues will be there. 

 

You should always do multiple tests.. and then look at the general picture they paint. If you get mostly stable runs then all is most likely good. If you only get quick CTD´s then something is off. 

Also another reason to be running and not flying is that the AI behaves weirdly with its pathfinding and animation etc. when you fly and they try to attack you sometimes. This in itself is a rather unstable act. (For example dragons will fly with their heads between their legs and spew fire at you in that position if you fly... sometimes.)

I've checked in all of the STEP Packs and none of them include Immersive Armors, Immersive Weapons or the aMidianBorn series.  I have no idea why either.  Are they bad mods?  :(

 

What defines "stable" in a stress test?  Is it the length of time before you CTD (if you do at all)?  For example, if I can go for at least 5 minutes without crashing, is that a stable game?  

 

From now on when I test, I'll run instead of flying.  

Edited July 10, 2014 by ADD1CTED_GAM3R

[Aiyen]

My run normally start in riverwood, then I run past falkreath towards markarth by road only. From there towards Solitude. Then I go through morthal towards dawnstar and onwards towards winterhold - windhelm and finally riften and then back to riverwood. 

 

I do those 3-5 times and as long as I can get at least to dawnstar I am quite pleased. I have had examples where I could do the entire run but those cases are quite rare... there will always be a freeze or CTD most likely. I do all of that at a speed mult of 500 so the entire run takes 5-10 min. 

 

Ofc if you find a location where you ALWAYS CTD or freeze then that is something to look into, since then there is at least that one location where you will most likely always have issues and then it is best to sort it out. 

 

Also if you have all the DLC then go to windhelm and travel to Dragonborn and back again to test that load point. If you have too much stuff then that load is one of the first to fail according to experience. 

 

 

Hmm odd about the weapons mod.. I am fairly certain that someone might be able to help out since it is a fairly popular mix. I do not use them personally since I do not like a too huge diversity in my weapons and armor.... I would rather spend my memory on other things, like diverse textures on enemies and animals using skyproc patchers. 

[AddictedxGamer]

My run normally start in riverwood, then I run past falkreath towards markarth by road only. From there towards Solitude. Then I go through morthal towards dawnstar and onwards towards winterhold - windhelm and finally riften and then back to riverwood. 

 

I do those 3-5 times and as long as I can get at least to dawnstar I am quite pleased. I have had examples where I could do the entire run but those cases are quite rare... there will always be a freeze or CTD most likely. I do all of that at a speed mult of 500 so the entire run takes 5-10 min. 

 

Ofc if you find a location where you ALWAYS CTD or freeze then that is something to look into, since then there is at least that one location where you will most likely always have issues and then it is best to sort it out. 

 

Also if you have all the DLC then go to windhelm and travel to Dragonborn and back again to test that load point. If you have too much stuff then that load is one of the first to fail according to experience. 

 

 

Hmm odd about the weapons mod.. I am fairly certain that someone might be able to help out since it is a fairly popular mix. I do not use them personally since I do not like a too huge diversity in my weapons and armor.... I would rather spend my memory on other things, like diverse textures on enemies and animals using skyproc patchers. 

Thanks for the reply!  I'll give your method of stress testing a try the next time I do it.

 

As for the weapon and armor mods; I might be willing to sacrifice the weapon mods for the armor mods, as I like the diversity added to the armors.  I need help figuring out what to do about the Weapons and Armor Fixes Remade issue though; the patches in its FOMOD installer and their relation to those weapon and armor mods.