One man's observations of the 2.2.9 Guide

[c0c0c0]

I am in awe of the user-friendly detail someone has laboriously added to all the "Detailed instructions available" sections.  The obscure but essentially changes via TES5Edit, all the FOMOD decisions, all the Meta Rule Instructions.  This is an incredible resource for less experienced modders, and it saddens me when I see would-be-modders attempt to do this on their own.  That said, there are a few places where this instruction, in my humble opinion, could be a little clearer.

 

• Explanation of BCF files.  They are all over the guide, but I had to dig to find out what they were, and why I could safely ignore them.
  
• Locking in load order positioning.  The current instructions for Book of Silence say:
  

  
  
  Toward top right, tick the Show only conflicting plugins box. The list of plugins will be much shorter as only conflicting plugins are shown.
  
  Drag and drop the conflicting plugin into the Load After window.

  
  That doesn't work in this case, and only in about 50% of other cases.  The listed anchor esp doesn't show up as conflicting, and the one that does show up won't drag.  I had to manually enter the anchor esp in.
  
• Adding bash tags.  I see there's a neat tool in LOOT for this.  Nothing on the site I could find mentioned it, with all forum comments mentioning the old Wrye method.  The guide itself, and the LOOT feedback, is silent on the topic, only saying that it needs to happen.  Somehow.
  
• Handling of later mods.  STEP core sells itself as a great starting point.  Install this our way, and everything later builds nicely upon it.  But there doesn't seem to be any acknowledgement of how this impacts core mod installation.  For example, there are mods that have specific options for Falskaar and Wyrmstooth, which many people install but we don't mention.  When these get installed, later after Core is completed, what is the modder supposed to do about those unselected options from earlier in the process?
  
• Interaction with STEP patches and interim benchmarking.  Several of the mods have special instructions on how they are to be modified, with the understanding that you will eventually install the STEP patch.  You can't install the STEP patch until the end because of dependencies, but if you edit the mods without the patch and run a benchmark, you might get unexpected results.  Seems like there should be a step after patching where you go back and handle all the edits to the now-redundant-EPSs and such.
  

All that said, I want to commend and thank the STEP team for all the effort they have put into this guide.  It's truly a game-change (no pun intended)(okay maybe a little).  I hope these suggestions can make it even better.

 

{EDIT} "Seems like there should be a step after patching where you go back and handle all the edits to the now-redundant-EPSs and such." - Looks there actually is one.  My bad.  Maybe we could add more clarity during the intial installs on how this will eventually be handled.

Edited November 28, 2014 by c0c0c0

[TechAngel85]

I am in awe of the user-friendly detail someone has laboriously added to all the "Detailed instructions available" sections.  The obscure but essentially changes via TES5Edit, all the FOMOD decisions, all the Meta Rule Instructions.  This is an incredible resource for less experienced modders, and it saddens me when I see would-be-modders attempt to do this on their own.  That said, there are a few places where this instruction, in my humble opinion, could be a little clearer.

• Explanation of BCF files.  They are all over the guide, but I had to dig to find out what they were, and why I could safely ignore them.
  • These are for WB and will be deleted as we no longer support WB besides for Bashed Patching
• Locking in load order positioning.  The current instructions for Book of Silence say:

  Toward top right, tick the Show only conflicting plugins box. The list of plugins will be much shorter as only conflicting plugins are shown.
  Drag and drop the conflicting plugin into the Load After window.

  That doesn't work in this case, and only in about 50% of other cases.  The listed anchor esp doesn't show up as conflicting, and the one that does show up won't drag.  I had to manually enter the anchor esp in.
  • No idea where you're getting this from because it's not from the mod page.
• Adding bash tags.  I see there's a neat tool in LOOT for this.  Nothing on the site I could find mentioned it, with all forum comments mentioning the old Wrye method.  The guide itself, and the LOOT feedback, is silent on the topic, only saying that it needs to happen.  Somehow.
  • Bashed Tags are added when you do the Bashed Patch at the end of the Guide.
• Handling of later mods.  STEP core sells itself as a great starting point.  Install this our way, and everything later builds nicely upon it.  But there doesn't seem to be any acknowledgement of how this impacts core mod installation.  For example, there are mods that have specific options for Falskaar and Wyrmstooth, which many people install but we don't mention.  When these get installed, later after Core is completed, what is the modder supposed to do about those unselected options from earlier in the process?
  • We don't cover mods that aren't in STEP. Users on on their own here.
• Interaction with STEP patches and interim benchmarking.  Several of the mods have special instructions on how they are to be modified, with the understanding that you will eventually install the STEP patch.  You can't install the STEP patch until the end because of dependencies, but if you edit the mods without the patch and run a benchmark, you might get unexpected results.  Seems like there should be a step after patching where you go back and handle all the edits to the now-redundant-EPSs and such.
  • Benchmarking don't quite work in all the positions that it's located so that will be reviewed for next release.

Thanks for you feedback! See my additions above in yellow.

[c0c0c0]

• No idea where you're getting this from because it's not from the mod page.

  It's linked from the meta rule instructions.  THe path is:

• https://wiki.step-project.com/STEP:2.2.9

• https://wiki.step-project.com/AMidianBorn_Book_of_Silence#Recommendations

• https://wiki.step-project.com/LOOT/Meta_Rule_Instructions

[TechAngel85]

You should be using the "Changing Priority" instructions for those Meta Rules on the mod page. You're not so much as creating a Rule as you are just simply changing the priority in which they are sorted.

[c0c0c0]

You should be using the "Changing Priority" instructions for those Meta Rules on the mod page. You're not so much as creating a Rule as you are just simply changing the priority in which they are sorted.

No, the instructions specifically mention using the "Load After" feature.  "Changing Priority" is just a number.

 

RE: Bash Tags:  They are mentioned in the Meta Rules for the STEP patch, before the topic is brought up in the next step for the Bashed Patch.  The STEP patch tags are not mentioned in the later step.

 

In retrospect, it might make sense to move everything related to Meta Rules to right before the Bashed Patch.

Edited November 30, 2014 by c0c0c0

[TechAngel85]

You're right. I've had very little sleep and have worked a lot of hours so forgive me. :: I never had that probably but maybe it was because I didn't do the Meta Rules until after all the mods were installed.

[z929669]

Is this fixed?

[TechAngel85]

Probably not. Would require going through the Guide again, step by step, to see if the instructions mesh correctly. I'd say moving these meta rules in one location in the Patches section would fix it though. How we have it now, mod by mod, is not very intuitive. Grouping them together in one location and handling after all mods are installed makes more sense.

[z929669]

When I installed 2.2.9, I had no issue implementing the meta rules according to the instructions, so not sure what the problem is. I think they work fine on the mod page, and they are associated with a specific mod and upstream Core mods.

 

The problem with aMidianBorn_ContentAddon.esp is that it should load after a mod that has not been installed yet (Even Better Quest Objectives). Even so, we need to inform users that install Book of Silence that its plugin should load after whatever it should load after ... this is a mod-specific attribute.

 

What we ought to do is modify mod-specific LOOT Meta Rules instructions in cases like this to mention that the rule can only be created later in the installation process. Then we can add Meta Rules pertaining to the downstream mod (in this case, EBQO) on its mod page for those installing (in this case) STEP:Extended.

 

In other words, we need to have the same Meta Rule on both the aMidianborn mod page and the EBQO mod page. I am changing it now to reflect what I mean, so take a look at both mod pages.

 

EDIT: also, the plugins do drag & drop in LOOT, but only if "Show only conflicting plugins" box is checked.

[TechAngel85]

No, I follow you. That makes sense.

[z929669]

.. there are likely several other cases where STEP:Extended mods are associated with STEP:Core mod LOOT Meta Rules, so we will need to tackle those likewise.

[z929669]

Creating new post so that this won't be missed ....

 

I added language to take care of the LOOT Meta Rules for a few other mods in STEP:Core that are associated with STEP:Extended:

 

AOS --> (SBD&S, W&C)

SkyFalls & SkyMills --> (SDD)

Realistic Water Two --> (B&F, PTW)

Book of Silence --> (EBQO)

 

There are probably some more, so let these set the precedent, and we can apply wherever necessary.

 

NOTE: I don't want to just reciprocate all LOOT Meta Rules ... too much maintenance overhead ... only those that apply to STEP mods that are associated with other STEP mods not yet installed according to the linear Guide instructions.

[TechAngel85]

I didn't think there were that many Meta Rules in the Guide to begin with.

[z929669]

DoubleYou's work I would guess.

[DoubleYou]

Yes. I'm pretty sure I listed them all on the Bashed Patch page so that users could simply go back at that point and do them.