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[WIP] Mator Smash



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#271 mrsmexythebeast

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 02:16 AM

Hey Mator, I had a quick question. Mator Smash essentially combines the functionality of a bashed patch and a merged patch (and does each one better), but how would we go about patching a mod with instructions to be included in the bashed patch but not the merged patch? Quite amateur modder here and new to Mator Smash, so I'm sorry if this is a silly question. The mod I'm talking about specifically is Scarcity. Taken from Scarcity's mod page: 

 

 

  • For compatibility with other mods, use Wrye Bash to create a Bashed Patch. Include "Scarcity - Less Loot.esp" and your chosen rarity module(s) in the Bashed Patch (DO NOT use any Bashed Tags). Remember that you must rebuild your Bashed Patch whenever your load order changes, this includes when you want to change rarity modules.
  • If you are also using TES5Edit DO NOT include any of Scarcity's .esp's in your Merged Patch.

Thanks for your help and your great work on both this and Merge Plugins; they are life-savers.


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#272 GamerPoets

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 01:17 AM

*
POPULAR

... just throwing it out there that there's a semi insane but glad to be helpful video creator out there who will be happy to create certain things for certain topics if certain people ever want them at certain times. Generally he needs certain things to be taught to him like he's a child because this certain person takes a while to grasp things lol but ... he really does like being helpful = ) 

(GP has graduated from having issues to full blown subscriptions)


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#273 Mator

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 07:42 PM

Hey Mator, I had a quick question. Mator Smash essentially combines the functionality of a bashed patch and a merged patch (and does each one better), but how would we go about patching a mod with instructions to be included in the bashed patch but not the merged patch? Quite amateur modder here and new to Mator Smash, so I'm sorry if this is a silly question. The mod I'm talking about specifically is Scarcity. Taken from Scarcity's mod page: 

Thanks for your help and your great work on both this and Merge Plugins; they are life-savers.

I think you can just ignore that then.  The mod author probably recommended against using the merged patch because it is in many ways buggy, and forwards things in an odd fashion.  You could ask the author for more information.  Smash should handle it perfectly.  If you wanted to be extra safe you could apply the Bash.All setting to the Scarcity ESPs.

 

... just throwing it out there that there's a semi insane but glad to be helpful video creator out there who will be happy to create certain things for certain topics if certain people ever want them at certain times. Generally he needs certain things to be taught to him like he's a child because this certain person takes a while to grasp things lol but ... he really does like being helpful = ) 

(GP has graduated from having issues to full blown subscriptions)

Feel free to shoot me an email or PM whenever you feel up for it.  :)

 

I do think if we get to the point of you making a video I will need to make a Nexus Mods page for Mator Smash.


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#274 Darth_mathias

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Posted 18 June 2017 - 03:50 AM

... just throwing it out there that there's a semi insane but glad to be helpful video creator out there who will be happy to create certain things for certain topics if certain people ever want them at certain times. Generally he needs certain things to be taught to him like he's a child because this certain person takes a while to grasp things lol but ... he really does like being helpful = ) 

(GP has graduated from having issues to full blown subscriptions)

Personally, I would love to see a Tutorial series on Mator Smash from you Michael as you are always my first point of call for video tutorials. Me and my wife have been nibbling around the edges of Samsh for a while she will be takig a look at it with the possibility of replacing Wrye Bash patch for our SRLE Extended LOTD guide but she frist needs to work out for herself how it works and a tutorial from you would really help with that.


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#275 FuzzyDuck

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 10:02 AM

So.
Err.
Anyone created settings for Fallout 04 ?

 


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#276 Freso

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 10:23 AM

Anyone created settings for Fallout 04 ?


There's a "Smash.All" setting in git that will almost certainly be included in the next Smash release: https://github.com/m...ttings/Fallout4

Edit: I've been using it (by copying it into the current 0.4.1 release) and it seems to work as well as can be expected.

Edited by Freso, 19 June 2017 - 10:25 AM.

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#277 uncleseano

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Posted 02 July 2017 - 11:07 PM

I'm about to take the plunge, the waters are cold and unknown...

 

Where to start...


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#278 dreadflopp

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Posted 06 July 2017 - 04:10 AM

Is there a smash setting that you can set so that a plugin overwrites previous plugins even though the data of the record is identical to skyrim.esm? Example, magicPerk.esp doesn't forward changes from USLEEP and the author says it shouldn't. The smash.all setting does forward USLEEP changes per design, if USLEEP is included in the patch. I know you probaly can edit the smash-setting on all records that magicPerk.esp conflicts with but it would be easier if you didn't have to.


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#279 twizz0r

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Posted 10 July 2017 - 10:57 AM

Hey Mator!

 

FO4/MO2: Any advice on hunting down the source record of this error?

 

...

Removing ITPO: DLC03_miscmod_mod_RadiumRifle_Mag_SmallQuick "Radium Rifle Standard Quick Eject Magazine" [MISC:030407E8]
Removing ITPO: DLC03_miscmod_mod_RadiumRifle_Mag_LargeQuick "Radium Rifle Large Quick Eject Magazine" [MISC:030407E7]

Exception removing ITPOs: Overflow while converting variant of type (LongWord) into type (Integer)

 

i know the mod that's causing this (Frost). The smashed patch causes a CTD for FO4 before the menu. If i remove the smashed patch, FO4 runs fine. If i skip frost.esp and re-smash, it runs fine.

 

Can u/l logs if you think it would help, but i don't see anything illustrative.

 

Thanks!


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#280 twizz0r

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Posted 10 July 2017 - 05:47 PM

Hey Mator, I had a quick question. Mator Smash essentially combines the functionality of a bashed patch and a merged patch (and does each one better), but how would we go about patching a mod with instructions to be included in the bashed patch but not the merged patch? Quite amateur modder here and new to Mator Smash, so I'm sorry if this is a silly question. The mod I'm talking about specifically is Scarcity. Taken from Scarcity's mod page: 

Thanks for your help and your great work on both this and Merge Plugins; they are life-savers.


MS has a smash setting for Scarcity. Use that rather than any bash tags or the Smash.all setting and you should be fine.
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#281 austen1000

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Posted 03 August 2017 - 01:52 PM

Greetings. I seem to be having trouble using this properly with Fallout 4. It works great with all the other games I have, but, for some reason, whenever I go to load the Fallout 4 profile up, the load order within its plugin selection list is messed up, causing some mods to not be able to load due to masters for them loading above their own masters (for example, Armorkeyword.esm loads above all the DLC esms). The load order in Wyre Bash (which I use for the BAIN installer at this point) and FO4Edit is normal, and this issue is absent from all other games I've tested.

 

Also, any chance that Morrowind/OpenMW will ever be usable with this?


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#282 TechAngel85

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Posted 02 January 2018 - 08:41 PM

There are a few things holding me back from this fully replacing Bashed Patching and these are basically just features that WB has, which I have become accustomed to.

 

One is the WB system automatically gathers up all the leveled lists and provides this to the user for management. This is an excellent feature and one of the main reasons I use Bashed Patches. Smash could provide the same functionality as an option for the user. If they are just making a single Smashed Patched for their mod list (as I assume most users would do), it would be nice to have the option of including merged leveled lists into the Smashed Patched just as WB does; without having to worry about anything extra.

 

The second feature holding me back is the ability to include game tweaks right into my Bashed Patch. This reduces plugin count and/or unnecessary console commands. It's a time saving feature. I've also always desired this feature to be expanded upon so that all the game settings could be included. This way users wouldn't have to worry about setting them up elsewhere. A few checkboxes and you're done.

 

Lastly, from what I can tell and from first impressions, Smash currently requires knowledge of the Bash Tag system to get its full functionality. This is a fading...dying?...system which few are fluent with anymore. Finding well written documentation for the tags, by itself, can be an en-devour. Then learning how to apply appropriate tags to mods is another. I think this is evident in that we have become accustomed to WB auto-selecting the mods it wants to merge and most users just going with it. Smash doesn't have this functionality, from what I can tell.

 

It could be possible to do an initial scan of the mods to collect some of this information and provide a couple of presets to merge a few basic plugins with basic edits, as WB does. Then provide the option to merge leveled lists from all mods and include game tweaks. If Smash could get to that point and do a better job at patching than WB, then WB would fall out of use for its patching function due to Smash meeting its goal of Smashing being better than Bashing. ^_^

 

These are just my observations during my short time with the program.



#283 kabepo

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 02:37 AM


Lastly, from what I can tell and from first impressions, Smash currently requires knowledge of the Bash Tag system to get its full functionality. This is a fading...dying?...system which few are fluent with anymore. Finding well written documentation for the tags, by itself, can be an en-devour. Then learning how to apply appropriate tags to mods is another. I think this is evident in that we have become accustomed to WB auto-selecting the mods it wants to merge and most users just going with it. Smash doesn't have this functionality, from what I can tell.

 

It could be possible to do an initial scan of the mods to collect some of this information and provide a couple of presets to merge a few basic plugins with basic edits, as WB does. Then provide the option to merge leveled lists from all mods and include game tweaks. If Smash could get to that point and do a better job at patching than WB, then WB would fall out of use for its patching function due to Smash meeting its goal of Smashing being better than Bashing. ^_^

 

 

My understanding is that the Smash functionality is completely independent to the Bash Tag system. Smash can understand and emulate Bash Tags, but you do not need to use Bash Tags at all, I don't. I use the "Smash.All" setting and clone it and edit it so it patches records the way I want them patched.

 

Smash does have functionality for auto-selecting the mods it wants to merge and merging plugins, but it does not popup a list to notify you and ask for confirmation, unlike Wrye Bash.

 

I've been using Mator Smash instead of Wrye Bash to produce patches for STEP Core and Extended, and find it more powerful and creates a much better patch for my load order.


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#284 Departed_3

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Posted 03 January 2018 - 09:14 AM

TLastly, from what I can tell and from first impressions, Smash currently requires knowledge of the Bash Tag system to get its full functionality. This is a fading...dying?...system which few are fluent with anymore.

http://wrye-bash.git...html#patch-tags

 

Utumno is just about drawing the refactoring of all of Wrye Bash code to a close, when 307 is out of beta, one of the next priorities is getting Patchers for all supported games in a better state, and along with that will come Bash Tags for the same.

 

The snag is its a huge project and only one expert for such a long time working on his own. I have tried Python occasionally but its beyond my abilities and time to invest

 

Anyway the biggest support for Bash Tags is through submissions from mod authors to the LOOT masterlist (as it used to be for the BOSS masterlist), which in accordance with the documentation linked above is utilized by Wrye Bash (and occasionally rebased on the latest when a release of Wrye Bash goes live). That always made sense because ITM and UDR reports were usually submitted to the masterlist too .. Dont see much of that going on these days because the much larger communities dont engage as well as they used to.

Modding communities these days are more of a candy shop than a work shop, but things like collating Bash Tags etc needs a lot of people invloved to keep up with the massive explosion in mod production since Oblivion.

 

Reference dying .. Its rather still developing for the newer games and its taking a long time. But the other option of having Mod Authors use Wrye Bash just to edit the mods plugin description (top right box) then click save easily and add a few bash tags that it needs .. Probably such is now not so widely known because MO became so prevalent as the go to manager for so long, along with NMM and its one click mod management stealing a lot of potential people who may have learned the intricacies of modding the games at a greater level of understanding <shrugs>

 

UegiwVn.png


Edited by alt3rn1ty, 03 January 2018 - 09:25 AM.

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#285 Piranhaha

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 03:45 AM

I used Mator Smash to make individualized profiles for about 80 different mods that showed conflicting records in SSEedit. When I tried to launch the game with the patch enabled, the main menu window comes up and starts to load (e.g. the point where, if you have a large data folder, the New, Continue, etc buttons aren't yet visible but you see the dragon logo). However, before the menu buttons become visible it CTDs with no error message. By selectively removing plugins from the smashed patch I tracked the cause down to three esps, any of which cause the issue when included in the patch (even without the other two). These ESPs are:

 

  • Undeath
  • Animated Weapon Enchants
  • My Audio Overhaul Skyrim Patches merged patch

I started trying to debug using my AOS patches as the test case and encountered the following:

  • When using a new smash setting on AOS patches in which none of the fields are toggled, the patch still causes a CTD
  • When using the Bash.Audio setting that I had cloned as Smash.AOS_Patches, the smashed patch actually contains 7 fewer records than when I exclude AOS Patches from the smashed patch.
  • I wrote a quick SSEedit script to dump all FormIDs touched by the smashed patches, and found the 7 FormIDs that are in the working smashed patch but are absent in the non-working smashed patch. They are all WEAP entries.
  • In 4 of these 7 entries, the entire entry was identical to the previous entry in the load order (AOS_Patches merged).
  • In the other 3, the entry had inherited and overwritten the INAM record from Skyrim.esm in preference to the value in AOS_Patches merged (this is because Bash.Audio doesn't include WEAP INAM records, but including them and rebuilding the patch doesn't resolve the crashing).
  • When I deleted these 7 WEAP entries from the working (AOS_Patches-excluded) smashed patch, resulting in a smashed plugin that appears (in SSEedit) to be identical to the CTD-inducing version, the game is still able to launch. Despite having the same amount of records as the non-working patch and also being the same filesize, the CRC32 checksum of this edited file is different from the non-working file.
  • I can make a second smashed patch in which AOS_Patches and the non-working smashed patch 1 are smashed together, and the game is able to launch normally with smashed patch 2 activated. However this isn't really useful because smashed patch 1 is the conflict winner in the load order and as such overwrites any desired changes from AOS_Patches. I suppose I could drag AOS_Patches below it but having to do the same with Undeath would significantly interfere with my load order.

 

It seems like there's something aside from records that's being edited when I include AOS_Patches (and presumably Animated Weapon Enchants and Undeath). I'm kind of at the limit of my knowhow as to how to debug this though. All of my plugins are form44 in case that matters; the AOS_Patches is generated by Merge Plugins standalone.

 

Anyone have any ideas for troubleshooting?

 

Edit: I figured it might help if I upload the smashed patches. 

 

1: Working version of smashed patch (AOS_Patches.esp excluded): https://mega.nz/#!Iq...1o_PsXOSLECoWPk

 

2: Non-working version of smashed patch (AOS_Patches.esp included): https://mega.nz/#!dq...TN98JsbozVib--A

 

3: Working version of smashed patch (AOS_Patches.esp excluded) where I removed the 7 extra records in SSEedit such that its record list matches that of the non-working version: https://mega.nz/#!Im...qEXLwyUNLp6sHxQ


Edited by Piranhaha, 20 January 2018 - 03:59 AM.

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