steve40 lvlpredator script fix?

[aaltair]

I was wondering if anyone is using steve40's lvlpredator and critter script fixes still, found here: https://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/985247-bugfix-for-lvlpredatorscript-errors-no-more-log-spam/

 

A while back I was setting up my mods and started having CTDs in exterior areas. One of the things I found in searching for a solution was the possibility that these scripts cause papyrus spam which can lead to CTDs. I enabled papyrus and indeed, I did have a ton of spam from these scripts. I installed the script fixes and no more CTDs, although that could be purely circumstantial as I also shifted some other things around. Hard to say. 

 

The thing is though, looking again at papyrus out of curiosity I now have a TON of this:

 

 warning: Property LinkCustom09 on script lvlpredatorscript attached to  (00085D10) cannot be initialized because the script no longer contains that property

 

I mean tons of it.

 

Reading further on in the original steve40 thread I see others have had this too but that it's not harmful? The conclusion is vague.

 

So I'm posting here to wonder if anyone has an opinion on these things, especially if the new log spam is harmful, or what.

 

Thanks!

[aaltair]

I guess no one knows anything about this? 

[phazer11]

I'm trying to locate the post from keithinhanoi about this. I'll message him.

[Andaone]

Here is keithinhanoi's post about fixing that warning:

https://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/985247-bugfix-for-lvlpredatorscript-errors-no-more-log-spam/?p=19952604

[GrantSP]

I will confess I had absolutely no idea about this before reading this thread but, according to the latest USKP, the method employed by @keithinhanoi to reduce the Papyrus spam is included, so I can't see why the separate fix would be needed.

[Harpalus]

I will confess I had absolutely no idea about this before reading this thread but, according to the latest USKP, the method employed by @keithinhanoi to reduce the Papyrus spam is included, so I can't see why the separate fix would be needed.

Did you read the linked thread? The USKP hasn't changed the lvlpredator script since 1.3.3 outside of an unrelated minor fix in 2.0.6. I don't see any other reference to that script since 1.3.3. From the USKP patch notes (emphasis mine):

 

The LvlPredatorScript has been corrected so that it will no longer fill the logs with errors about enable parents. The addition of two new USKP-specific keywords was required for this in addition to editing several world records for the placed creatures the script was intended to run for. In an 100% vanilla game, this completely eradicates these error messages and the predator/prey setups now work as they were intended to. Mods which edit these references will cancel out the fixes for them and we cannot correct for this.

The USKP patch will not work on predators added by mods or on any modded vanilla predators that don't forward the new USKP keywords. The linked patch fixes all predators, even those added by mods. It still has some value. Some papyrus log spam isn't really a big deal, though.

 

Or do you mean that this fix is being included in the next USKP version?

Edited April 3, 2015 by Harpalus

[keithinhanoi]

 

I was wondering if anyone is using steve40's lvlpredator and critter script fixes still, found here: https://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/985247-bugfix-for-lvlpredatorscript-errors-no-more-log-spam/

 

A while back I was setting up my mods and started having CTDs in exterior areas. One of the things I found in searching for a solution was the possibility that these scripts cause papyrus spam which can lead to CTDs. I enabled papyrus and indeed, I did have a ton of spam from these scripts. I installed the script fixes and no more CTDs, although that could be purely circumstantial as I also shifted some other things around. Hard to say. 

 

The thing is though, looking again at papyrus out of curiosity I now have a TON of this:

 

 warning: Property LinkCustom09 on script lvlpredatorscript attached to  (00085D10) cannot be initialized because the script no longer contains that property

 

I mean tons of it.

 

Reading further on in the original steve40 thread I see others have had this too but that it's not harmful? The conclusion is vague.

 

So I'm posting here to wonder if anyone has an opinion on these things, especially if the new log spam is harmful, or what.

 

Thanks!

 

The only thing problematic with that message is that it fills up your papyrus log with repeats of the warning, which makes it annoying when you need to read through the log. But it won't cause errors, or CTDs.

 

All that message is telling you is that there is a bit of data associated with a particular object that was stored in your game save file by the lvlpredator script at some point, and now the version of the lvlpredator script you are using isn't asking for that data. So what you're getting is a complaint about that.

 

The reason why you're getting that message is that the version of lvlpredator script you were using before was supplied by USKP, and you've since changed to Steve40's version of the script.

 

Since the aim of both methods of fixing the lvlpredator script is to get rid of annoying papyrus log errors, a good question is what's the main difference between the USKP fix for the lvlpredator script and steve40's fix?

 

The answer is that the USKP fix is designed to work with a 100% vanilla game, but won't help with mods that make changes to placed creatures or add new ones which employ the lvlpredator script, while steve40's implementation is designed to work with both vanilla and third-party placed creatures.

 

I've already explained this quite clearly in a follow-up post here on the Nexus Forum's thread for steve40's fix for the lvlpredator script.

 

A better question to ask here is whether you need to look through your papyrus logs or need to have papyrus logging turned on at all.

 

Papyrus logging only shows debugging messages that the script authors have intentionally (or in some cases, unintentionally) left enabled. The truth is that with Papyrus logging turned on, the messages you see in the log file are just a tiny minute fraction of the actual number of errors occurring. In a good number of situations, what you might think is an error as displayed in the log is actually the author's method of the script gracefully exiting its process. Most mod authors use papyrus debug messages while they are developing the scripts for their mods, and then turn those off before releasing the mod to the public. Even then, some well-known mods, such as Convenient Horses, or any of isoku's mods, will intentionally print some error messages which the authors state can be safely ignored. Those messages are there just to be helpful in confirming things are working they way they should.

 

If you understand that, and also the fact that the papyrus engine can't output log messages at the exact moment of a CTD, then it should become pretty clear why using the papyrus log is quite useless as a tool to find out why you're experiencing CTDs.

 

I will confess I had absolutely no idea about this before reading this thread but, according to the latest USKP, the method employed by @keithinhanoi to reduce the Papyrus spam is included, so I can't see why the separate fix would be needed.

 

I've just checked the USKP changelist web page, the last update to the lvlpredator script was in USKP v1.3.3. Just do a search for the text string "lvlpredator" and you'll see all other references after USKP release v1.3.3 have been redacted.

 

So, my changes to steve40's script are still necessary to remove for those who started their play through with the USKP version of the lvlpredator script, and later changed to steve40's version of the fixed script, and are seeing messages like this:

08/02/2014 - 10:30:06PM] Warning: Property LinkCustom09 on script lvlpredatorscript attached to  (00081CF9) cannot be initialized because the script no longer contains that property
[08/02/2014 - 10:30:06PM] Warning: Property LinkCustom10 on script lvlpredatorscript attached to  (00081CF9) cannot be initialized because the script no longer contains that property

As for your wondering why a separate fix apart from the USKP solution would be needed, see my explanation above with regards to the USKP fix not working with some third-party mods.

 

Postscript: I am adamant about not sharing a changed version of someone's work without getting their permission, which is the main reason why I haven't posted a link to a copy of steve40's script re-compiled with my suggested changes.

 

However, I've seen him posting on the comments thread of his SkyBirds mod fairly recently, so I'm going to try contacting him to get permission to post an update to his script.

[Harpalus]

I've just checked the USKP changelist web page, the last update to the lvlpredator script was in USKP v1.3.3. Just do a search for the text string "lvlpredator" and you'll see all other references after USKP release v1.3.3 have been redacted.

As I mentioned above, there seems to be a change in 2.0.6.

 

Some creature spawners in Bloated Man's Grotto were accidentally included in the predator script fixes even though these don't use the predator script. (Bug #17062)

Edited April 3, 2015 by Harpalus

[keithinhanoi]

As I mentioned above, there seems to be a change in 2.0.6.

 

Yes, I'm aware of that update; however, it wasn't actually a change to the script itself. Part of the method of the script fix was not only to change the script itself, but also to add some keywords to vanilla creature references as well as some worldspace edits. The fix in v2.0.6 address changes outside the script itself.

 

What I've said about the pros and cons of the two scripts still stands, based on the best of my knowledge at the moment from everything I've read on this.

 

TL; DR - Those USKP-added keywords are actually the reason for the unwanted papyrus log spam that occurs if you switch from the USKP version of the script to steve40's. My suggested changes to steve40's script will suppress that spam resulting from the switch. Despite this, the conditions that cause those warnings are still occurring in your game, but you just won't have to read about it, which is fine because they aren't causing your CTDs.

 

EDIT: I tried contacting steve40 via PM on Nexus, and get an error message that he "cannot receive" PMs. Anybody know if he had an account elsewhere that I can contact him by?

Edited April 3, 2015 by keithinhanoi

[GrantSP]

Like I said, I had no idea about this 'problem' or the 'fix(es)' before seeing this thread so I'm well aware my take on it could be way off.

 

All I did was see the linked post with the edits about adding in the keywords: LinkCustom09 & LinkCustom10 to the script and then checked the source for the USKP version, saw that included and thought, "okay they've included it!".

 

So as far as I'm concerned, this whole thread is a great learning experience. Keep it coming.

[aaltair]

Thank you for the thoroughness of your replies! I definitely understand better now the pointlessness of checking papyrus to track down the cause of CTDs. At the time (before I found Steve40's script) I was experiencing CTDs with Immersive Creatures installed, and my searching for a solution circuitously led me to checking the papyrus log, revealing the predator script errors (since as you said, the USKP fix would not affect a third party mod like Immersive Creatures) which then led me to Steve40's fix. I'm glad to know the warning spam is harmless! Even so, it would be great if you got permission to release his recompiled script, even on the rare chance someone needs to look through that log.

 

I understand that the script fix warning spam will not cause CTD, the only thing I'm still unclear on and curious about is in regards to the original assumed need for such a "fix"... does the lvlpredatorscript warning spam you get when you have a third party mod like Immersive Creatures installed possibly cause CTD or freezing? (pre Steve40 fix) Or was that whole thing just a red herring leading me to believe I found the cause, when in fact it was just harmless log spam to begin with?

[keithinhanoi]

In short "spam" is a very appropriate term, because those missing "Property LinkCustom09/10" errors' only destructive capability are in their annoyance. Even with my level 53 char some hundreds of hours in, on a rather messy load order (it has seen many updates, removals, and reordering), I still only get very infrequent CTDs, and I have absolutely no reason to believe any of them are linked at all to the running of instances of the lvlpredator script.

 

However, as I understand it, both the USKP and steve40's fix try to address issues with the original "vanilla" at the source, because it was originally implemented incorrectly, and at a minimum is possibly wasting processor cycles and definitely producing unwanted log spam. At worst, if you read forum posts back 2-3 years ago, there were claims the original "vanilla" lvlpredator script was also linked to CTDs, though this was never conclusively proven. So yes, from my personal experience and reading up on it, I think "red herring" is the correct way to think about the link you seemed to find between CTDs and those papyrus log errors.

 

Either way, having USKP installed would be my default recommendation where the lvlpredator script is concerned, but if also using mods that add new predators, I'd consider it wise to use steve40's version of the script from the start of a play through.

[aaltair]

Thanks again :)