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Mods - Dirty Edits

Besidilo

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Besidilo Jarl

Besidilo

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As per title, post here any mods that you have found to edit the master files (which are therefore prone to conflicts and crashes).

 

 

How to check for deleted records:

 

Easiest way is to Right Click on the mod in Wrye Bash, go to he Mod Cleaning option, and select "Scan for UDRs". Another way is to open up the Creation Kit, Select "File" then "Data", locate the mod you want to check, and then click the details button. Deleted records will have a "D" next to them.

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Neovalen Akatosh

Neovalen

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morevillageanimals.esp:

 

 

UDR: 5

• Skyrim.esm: 0414F6 - ACHR attached to Exterior CELL (Skyrim.esm: 009618 'ChillfurrowFarmExterior'), attached to WRLD (Skyrim.esm: 00003C 'Tamriel') at (7, -3)

• Skyrim.esm: 04150A - ACHR attached to Exterior CELL (Skyrim.esm: 009659 'PelagiaFarmExterior'), attached to WRLD (Skyrim.esm: 00003C 'Tamriel') at (4, -5)

• Skyrim.esm: 06FC46 - ACHR attached to Exterior CELL (Skyrim.esm: 0097A0 'IvarsteadExterior01'), attached to WRLD (Skyrim.esm: 00003C 'Tamriel') at (18, -16)

• Skyrim.esm: 09DA4C - ACHR attached to Exterior CELL (Skyrim.esm: 009576 'RoriksteadExterior01'), attached to WRLD (Skyrim.esm: 00003C 'Tamriel') at (-21, 2)

• Skyrim.esm: 1066CE - ACHR attached to Exterior CELL (Skyrim.esm: 007079 'KarthwastenExterior01'), attached to WRLD (Skyrim.esm: 00003C 'Tamriel') at (-33, 9)

 

 

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Neovalen Akatosh

Neovalen

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SkyrimCoinReplacer.esp:

 

 

UDR: 48

• Skyrim.esm: 022F3D - REFR attached to Interior CELL (Skyrim.esm: 01529D 'DeadMensRespite01')

• Skyrim.esm: 062894 - REFR attached to Interior CELL (Skyrim.esm: 01529D 'DeadMensRespite01')

• Skyrim.esm: 0628C3 - REFR attached to Interior CELL (Skyrim.esm: 01529D 'DeadMensRespite01')

• Skyrim.esm: 0628C4 - REFR attached to Interior CELL (Skyrim.esm: 01529D 'DeadMensRespite01')

• Skyrim.esm: 0628C5 - REFR attached to Interior CELL (Skyrim.esm: 01529D 'DeadMensRespite01')

• Skyrim.esm: 0628C6 - REFR attached to Interior CELL (Skyrim.esm: 01529D 'DeadMensRespite01')

• Skyrim.esm: 0628C7 - REFR attached to Interior CELL (Skyrim.esm: 01529D 'DeadMensRespite01')

• Skyrim.esm: 0628F9 - REFR attached to Interior CELL (Skyrim.esm: 01529D 'DeadMensRespite01')

• Skyrim.esm: 085244 - REFR attached to Interior CELL (Skyrim.esm: 02D525 'Angarvunde02')

• Skyrim.esm: 085246 - REFR attached to Interior CELL (Skyrim.esm: 02D525 'Angarvunde02')

• Skyrim.esm: 085247 - REFR attached to Interior CELL (Skyrim.esm: 02D525 'Angarvunde02')

• Skyrim.esm: 085248 - REFR attached to Interior CELL (Skyrim.esm: 02D525 'Angarvunde02')

• Skyrim.esm: 085249 - REFR attached to Interior CELL (Skyrim.esm: 02D525 'Angarvunde02')

• Skyrim.esm: 08524A - REFR attached to Interior CELL (Skyrim.esm: 02D525 'Angarvunde02')

• Skyrim.esm: 08524B - REFR attached to Interior CELL (Skyrim.esm: 02D525 'Angarvunde02')

• Skyrim.esm: 08524C - REFR attached to Interior CELL (Skyrim.esm: 02D525 'Angarvunde02')

• Skyrim.esm: 08524D - REFR attached to Interior CELL (Skyrim.esm: 02D525 'Angarvunde02')

• Skyrim.esm: 08524E - REFR attached to Interior CELL (Skyrim.esm: 02D525 'Angarvunde02')

• Skyrim.esm: 08524F - REFR attached to Interior CELL (Skyrim.esm: 02D525 'Angarvunde02')

• Skyrim.esm: 085250 - REFR attached to Interior CELL (Skyrim.esm: 02D525 'Angarvunde02')

• Skyrim.esm: 085251 - REFR attached to Interior CELL (Skyrim.esm: 02D525 'Angarvunde02')

• Skyrim.esm: 085252 - REFR attached to Interior CELL (Skyrim.esm: 02D525 'Angarvunde02')

• Skyrim.esm: 085253 - REFR attached to Interior CELL (Skyrim.esm: 02D525 'Angarvunde02')

• Skyrim.esm: 085254 - REFR attached to Interior CELL (Skyrim.esm: 02D525 'Angarvunde02')

• Skyrim.esm: 085255 - REFR attached to Interior CELL (Skyrim.esm: 02D525 'Angarvunde02')

• Skyrim.esm: 085256 - REFR attached to Interior CELL (Skyrim.esm: 02D525 'Angarvunde02')

• Skyrim.esm: 085257 - REFR attached to Interior CELL (Skyrim.esm: 02D525 'Angarvunde02')

• Skyrim.esm: 085258 - REFR attached to Interior CELL (Skyrim.esm: 02D525 'Angarvunde02')

• Skyrim.esm: 093CFE - REFR attached to Interior CELL (Skyrim.esm: 0152C0 'Ansilvund01')

• Skyrim.esm: 093CFF - REFR attached to Interior CELL (Skyrim.esm: 0152C0 'Ansilvund01')

• Skyrim.esm: 093D00 - REFR attached to Interior CELL (Skyrim.esm: 0152C0 'Ansilvund01')

• Skyrim.esm: 0A755B - REFR attached to Interior CELL (Skyrim.esm: 0152C0 'Ansilvund01')

• Skyrim.esm: 0A8202 - REFR attached to Interior CELL (Skyrim.esm: 0152C0 'Ansilvund01')

• Skyrim.esm: 0B71A2 - REFR attached to Interior CELL (Skyrim.esm: 0152C1 'Angarvunde01')

• Skyrim.esm: 0B71A9 - REFR attached to Interior CELL (Skyrim.esm: 0152C1 'Angarvunde01')

• Skyrim.esm: 0B71B5 - REFR attached to Interior CELL (Skyrim.esm: 02D525 'Angarvunde02')

• Skyrim.esm: 0B71B6 - REFR attached to Interior CELL (Skyrim.esm: 02D525 'Angarvunde02')

• Skyrim.esm: 0B71C7 - REFR attached to Interior CELL (Skyrim.esm: 02D524 'Angarvunde03')

• Skyrim.esm: 0B71C8 - REFR attached to Interior CELL (Skyrim.esm: 02D524 'Angarvunde03')

• Skyrim.esm: 0B71C9 - REFR attached to Interior CELL (Skyrim.esm: 02D524 'Angarvunde03')

• Skyrim.esm: 0B71CB - REFR attached to Interior CELL (Skyrim.esm: 02D524 'Angarvunde03')

• Skyrim.esm: 0B71CC - REFR attached to Interior CELL (Skyrim.esm: 02D524 'Angarvunde03')

• Skyrim.esm: 0B71CD - REFR attached to Interior CELL (Skyrim.esm: 02D524 'Angarvunde03')

• Skyrim.esm: 0B7284 - REFR attached to Interior CELL (Skyrim.esm: 0152C0 'Ansilvund01')

• Skyrim.esm: 0B7820 - REFR attached to Interior CELL (Skyrim.esm: 02D525 'Angarvunde02')

• Skyrim.esm: 0E4877 - REFR attached to Interior CELL (Skyrim.esm: 01529D 'DeadMensRespite01')

• Skyrim.esm: 10949B - REFR attached to Interior CELL (Skyrim.esm: 0152C1 'Angarvunde01')

• Skyrim.esm: 10949C - REFR attached to Interior CELL (Skyrim.esm: 0152C1 'Angarvunde01')

 

 

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Neovalen Akatosh

Neovalen

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AIMP - Antz in my Pantz.esp

 

 

UDR: 9

• Skyrim.esm: 01DC11 - REFR attached to Exterior CELL (Skyrim.esm: 000D74), attached to WRLD (Skyrim.esm: 00003C 'Tamriel') at (0, 0)

• Skyrim.esm: 01DC15 - REFR attached to Exterior CELL (Skyrim.esm: 000D74), attached to WRLD (Skyrim.esm: 00003C 'Tamriel') at (0, 0)

• Skyrim.esm: 01DC16 - REFR attached to Exterior CELL (Skyrim.esm: 000D74), attached to WRLD (Skyrim.esm: 00003C 'Tamriel') at (0, 0)

• Skyrim.esm: 01DC17 - REFR attached to Exterior CELL (Skyrim.esm: 000D74), attached to WRLD (Skyrim.esm: 00003C 'Tamriel') at (0, 0)

• Skyrim.esm: 02194F - REFR attached to Exterior CELL (Skyrim.esm: 000D74), attached to WRLD (Skyrim.esm: 00003C 'Tamriel') at (0, 0)

• Skyrim.esm: 05DA46 - REFR attached to Exterior CELL (Skyrim.esm: 000D74), attached to WRLD (Skyrim.esm: 00003C 'Tamriel') at (0, 0)

• Skyrim.esm: 05E0FA - REFR attached to Exterior CELL (Skyrim.esm: 000D74), attached to WRLD (Skyrim.esm: 00003C 'Tamriel') at (0, 0)

• Skyrim.esm: 05F2D3 - REFR attached to Exterior CELL (Skyrim.esm: 000D74), attached to WRLD (Skyrim.esm: 00003C 'Tamriel') at (0, 0)

• Skyrim.esm: 0ECE3A - REFR attached to Exterior CELL (Skyrim.esm: 000D74), attached to WRLD (Skyrim.esm: 00003C 'Tamriel') at (0, 0)

 

 

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frihyland High King

frihyland

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My feeling on the subject is that when you are running 15-20 mods a few mistakes are allowable because the likelihood of them becoming compounded is fairly small, when you get to 250+ mods as we surely will in STEP 2.3 we simply can't allow them.

 

I think of STEP as an architectural project, like building a skyscraper. This is just simply doing a soil analysis and materials analysis for the building, we obviously need the highest level of confidence in our foundation and building materials in order to proceed.

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Neovalen Akatosh

Neovalen

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That is a fine concept, HOWEVER are there things you can mod into skyrim that can't be done any other way but UDRs? I'd imagine any mod that removes items from the original game (such as Septims in the case of SkyrimCoins). They aren't like light sources, crafting recipes, etc that you can simply "disable"/add conditions to.

 

If there are no exceptions thats fine, just asking for my own clarity. Out of an abundance of caution, I have removed all mods with UDRs from my mod listings.

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frihyland High King

frihyland

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There is absolutely no reason for them, ever, period. The fact that they are so prevalent is because the CK doesn't prevent them, and even makes it hard to avoid them in several cases, as well as making the workarounds to avoiding them extraordinarily complex and time consuming.

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frihyland High King

frihyland

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What are the dangers of using masters (ESM files) instead of plugins (ESPs)?

 

Take Solitude Dock District for example. Both versions have the same number of UDRs reported by WB. If the mod was clean, would either version be safer to use or are they both in the same ballpark?

Yikes... Lets see if I can avoid a wall of text. Unfortunately my understanding is incomplete and mostly untested but here goes:

 

Principally an ESM file is designed for 2 purposes, it is a Master file in 2 important senses.

  • Version Control, modifications can be checked in and out using esps as seperate code branches to merge.
  • Create an entirely new world, with new gameplay, NPC's, quests, the works. Intended as an independent code branch neither dependent on nor overriding other branches.
The reasons people are using them are for entirely different purposes and they don't even think about the consequences of all the switches they just turned on without even realizing it.  Mostly what get's overlooked is a subrecord type called ONAM, it's a required subrecord type that I have never seen properly implemented in an esm. It handles the defaults and overrides of the record type its attached too, which tend to be fairly important types (RACE, WRLD, NAV, NAVM, INFO, REFR).

 

The creation kit does not support creating esm's so you have to do a bit of hacking, people think they can make an esm just by changing the file extension, it doesn't crash so it must work!  Even if you hack an esp into an esm "properly" most are doing it with files already full of data, you need to start empty and build it from the ground up so the CK can automatically fill in all the required stuff as you go, or you end up with empty required records and subrecords.

 

Finally, the severity of the problem is completely unknown, anecdotal evidence shows the files appear to work and seem to bypass several of the bugs inherent with using the CK (thus the rising popularity), what is unclear is the how all these gaps in the file structure mess with your game.

 

Final verdict.  ESM files are not inherently bad, its just that there is a tremendous lack of knowledge to implement them properly.  And a complete void of tools to edit them safely.  But theoretically if you build one from the ground up with the CK it should be just fine. Really the way to do it would be to hack the CK to get it to run in Developer mode like Bethesda does so you can save as esm natively.

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Kelmych Talos

Kelmych

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Version 2 of Antz in my Pantz was released. The author says that the UDRs were eliminated, and Wrye Bash doesn't detect any UDRs in the new version. TES5Edit detects a number of records that are identical to master. The new version has interactive ants that can have ingredients used in alchemy formulas.

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