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Complete Alchemy and Cooking Overhaul (by kryptopyr)



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#16 Kelmych

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 01:55 PM

Like many others, I've been looking forward to this mod for a long time so there would be an Alchemy mod that makes Alchemy a much more useful part of the game.

 

A few thoughts on the areas for debate:

 

Bombs: I would also put Shock bombs in the same category as fire bombs. Stun effects can be obtained using a mix of non-magical chemicals (usually including aluminum) and doesn't need gunpowder, and Corundum in the game has been likened to aluminum. The magic system includes runes which provide a bomb-like effect, so I could also see justifying bombs as the alchemical version of the magic runes.

 

Potions: Often the real effect of taking multiple doses of the same potion is diminished benefits for subsequent doses after the first dose and the increased possibility for significant side effects (typically harmful). Adding these two factors (diminished returns and the "poisoning" effect mentioned by Tech) might be difficult to add to the game. I feel non-stacking potions (for potions with the same effect), along with potions of different strength, is the best alternative without making a significant change to the scripts for potion use to accommodate both of these changes (I realize the new alcohol effects in CACO handle both of these, but it is a lot more complex than the ordinary potion effects). I don't think taking multiple copies of the same potion should increase its duration; taking more aspirin (as an example) doesn't change the duration of the effect.

 

I also feel that potions should not take effect instantly, and should provide an effect over some time period. Some would act very quickly while others would provide an effect (e.g., increasing health) at a fixed rate over a predetermined time. Some would provide an constant effect (e.g., improved weapon skill) over a period of time.

 

Needs: I agree that this should be up to the individual player. The Fallout 3 Wanderers Edition mod included the Needs mechanism in the Fallout series (based on an existing Fallout 3 mod) and Bethesda then included it in the vanilla Fallout New Vegas. In both cases it is optional. I like that CACO has tried to provide a lightweight Needs capability while retaining compatiblity with other Needs mod like iNeed (which I use).



#17 cdcooley

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 02:23 PM

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Bombs made an appearance in the Tribunal expansion for Morrowind. They were only used to open a blocked passage, but they were there. Alchemy in the base game provides an invisibility potion and you're worried that frost and shock bombs are a stretch? Alchemy works because all plants and animals on Nirn are infused with Magicka, so from a lore perspective if you have the right kind of ingredients you should be able to duplicate just about any magic effect.


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#18 Ocean

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 04:16 PM

I gotta say, this mod is from heaven. I only need like, iNeed with this mod because needs stuff is a bit too basic for me, and there is no drink. But in evey other way, this mod is awesome. Heck, I think it beats iNeed in alcohol department even.
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#19 Departed_1

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 04:19 PM

I believe that traditionally Alchemy has been considered a magical art in the Elder Scrolls games.  I think Skyrim is the first game to lump Alchemy in with Stealth rather than the magic skills.  I have tried to provide fairly reasonable recipes for the bombs, so the bombs could either be seen as magical or as a physical utilization of an ingredient's magical properties.


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#20 SparrowPrince

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 04:31 PM

How do we pronounce the abbreviation? Cacko or Casso? Cacko sounds like the slang 'cack' which means something is crap basically. Cassowary is a bird that can tear you apart with its feet. I think this is an important question that needs answering ASAP. 


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#21 Departed_1

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 04:40 PM

I actually call it "cacao."  :)


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#22 Genius384

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 10:24 PM

Re: bombs... Remember that there are explosive crossbow bolts, for what that is worth.

Also great mod. If I can suggest a feature... "Alchemy Requires Bottles" is an older mod and not very compatible.

Either way this mod will be a staple in my load order as regardless of if it makes STEP.
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#23 TechAngel85

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 10:26 PM

I actually call it "cacao."  :)

Warning! Bad joke ahead... :teehee:

 

So safe to say that it's..."chocolaty"...good!



#24 Departed_1

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Posted 03 October 2015 - 12:02 AM

That's a great point about the exploding crossbow bolts.  Those bolts are simply crafted at the forge by adding elemental salts to regular crossbow bolts, nothing at all magical there except the properties inherent in the ingredients.  I am now fully convinced that elemental salts must have some type of explosive tendencies. It's the LORE!  :P


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#25 Greg

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Posted 03 October 2015 - 12:16 AM

This makes sense because elemental sodium (and this is a real thing in our real world) when dropped into water creates hydrogen and hydrogen is explosive as can be seen in this video.

 



#26 SparrowPrince

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Posted 03 October 2015 - 02:05 AM

Kypto I sent you a edited message on my onion PM about the plants. I really hope you understand what I'm saying and it doesn't come off odd. I'd love you to make additional placements.

 

Tech I uploaded a new RF, so if you want to backup and/double check there we go. Also, thanks for your input on the rocks. I made them more bumpy.


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#27 Shadriss

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Posted 03 October 2015 - 02:45 AM

Like what I've seen so far, though I have seen one oddity on the cooking side of things. Salt Piles seem to be being converted into just plain Salt on the start of any cooking session... so where, for just a moment, I'm able to make Apple Cabbage Stew (needs Salt Piles), I can't half a second later. However, other recipes show me having a butt ton of 'salt'. Not sure if that's a slight conflict with iNeed or not, but am curious since I don't imagine it's intended behavior.


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#28 Departed_1

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Posted 03 October 2015 - 07:30 PM

Check whether you have another mod overwriting the Apple Cabbage Stew recipe.  CACO should change this and all other vanilla recipes to use a portion of salt rather than a Salt Pile.


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#29 Shadriss

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Posted 03 October 2015 - 09:17 PM

I think you just told me where the problem is, and it IS iNeed. As part of it's mod, you require 'Salt Piles' to preserve raw meats. This can be altered in the MCM menu, but it still lists that particular ingredient no matter if you choose to use that system or not in the recipe when cooking. MO doesn't seem to see that conflict, but from what I can tell.  LOOT sorts iNeed after CACO in my load order, so any changes for that one ingredient would be taken over by iNeed. After checking the mod's description page, I don't see anything specifically saying that CACO needs to load after iNeed, but I'll try adding a metarule and see if that fixes the issue. I'll get back to you.

 

EDIT: No change in the issue. What's interesting is that I have three separate Apple Cabbage Stew entries. Two of them are pretty obviously NOT the one(s) you created, since none of them contain water as part of the recipe. The other two are different only in what specific apple (green or red) they call for. Also of interest is that there seems to be inconsistency in what recipes see the salt piles I do have as viable for use and which don't - several see them and will let me cook, several don't. It's pretty obvious I have another mod somewhere sneaking in cooking changes, but I can't seem to track it down. MO shows no files of CACO being overwritten, and it overwrites only files from the Unofficial Patches or the original ESM/ESP files (DG/DB/HF).

 

Somewhat at a loss as to how to track down to culprit here. I thought maybe Hearthfires Extended, but after going though it's description, there seems to be nothing related to cooking done here. After a pass or two through my load order, I see nothing else that could be involved. Either way, it's apparently MY issue, and not one with the mod, so as not to derail the thread purpose, I'll take the problem elsewhere if I can't find the solution on my own.

 

EDIT 2: This may or may not be related, but appears to be a interface bug between iNeed and CACO, so...

 

Per the description, water in my waterskins SHOULD be being detected for use in cooking. This is not the case - not a single recipe calling for water is available, despite having three full waterskins. Also, in an attempt to fix the original issue, I tried the recombine ingredients compatibility options. This made no difference to the original issue.


Edited by Shadriss, 03 October 2015 - 10:12 PM.

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#30 Departed_1

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Posted 03 October 2015 - 10:49 PM

Open your mods in TES5Edit.  Go to Skyrim.esm or CACO and find the vanilla record for the Apple Cabbage Stew.  You can check which mods have records that reference or use the Apple Cabbage Stew by looking at "Referenced By" at the bottom of the screen.

 

CACO won't change recipes from other mods, so if one of them calls for Salt Pile, then it will still require Salt Pile even with CACO installed.


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