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Merge.esp Bash.esp FNIS, Dual redux patch, Realshelter patch


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#1 sutex

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Posted 19 December 2015 - 09:23 PM

The merge patch is not included in the Step Guild but in the Step video  why ?

Don't know if its my imagination but my game is very stable after I did use the merge.esp

 

I need to find a guide or a list of instruction on how to setup the Merge, Bash, FNIS, Dual redux patch, Realshelter patch and in what order to do the above,  what needs to be unchecked , or checked in the Right and Left panel of MO and the order to do the above

 

I asked only because when I went to re-do my patches , it meant going back though videos trying to find those instructions , then using those instruction against the STEP guide ,not sure if anything in those videos, is out of date  or maybe there is a better way now.

 

Would be great if this was all in "words" maybe some screenshots on one page  the Merge,  Bash,  FNIS Dual redux patch Realshelter patch

 

A Step by step guide for those who have all the mods in the latest Step guide.

 


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#2 Nebulous112

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Posted 24 December 2015 - 07:55 PM

The videos are out of date. New videos cannot be made for STEP each time STEP makes edits to the guide.

 

I have never watched the videos, so I cannot speak to their content. But I tried a Merge Patch myself, and it looked like it was forwarding weird edits to a lot of files. It seems like it would require a lot of manual work to reverse some of the automatic edits. I saw more files that I would have to alter than files that were "good". It seemed like more trouble than it was worth. However, my xEdit skills are nonexistent, so take my example with a grain of salt.

 

I assume this is why the xEdit Merged Patch is not in STEP, but I do not know for sure. I have not been around long enough to say if it was ever an official part of the process, although I assume it was at one point if the video contains mention of it.

 

Could a STEP staff member shed some light on this topic for us?

 

 

Also, RealShelter is not a part of STEP Core or Extended. I believe you are talking about the Frostfall addon...I don't think it works with the new Frostfall v3 at all, by the way.


Edited by Nebulous112, 24 December 2015 - 08:05 PM.


#3 sutex

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Posted 24 December 2015 - 08:02 PM


 

Also, RealShelter is not a part of STEP Core or Extended. I believe you are talking about the Frostfall addon...I don't think it works with the new Frostfall v3 at all, by the way.

No just RealShelter , and some how , my brain was convinced it was in the step guide ..lol :)

 

I have no issue with the xEdit Merge with my game, but time will tell


Edited by sutex, 24 December 2015 - 08:04 PM.

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#4 GrantSP

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Posted 24 December 2015 - 09:35 PM

The videos are out of date. New videos cannot be made for STEP each time STEP makes edits to the guide.

 

I have never watched the videos, so I cannot speak to their content. But I tried a Merge Patch myself, and it looked like it was forwarding weird edits to a lot of files. It seems like it would require a lot of manual work to reverse some of the automatic edits. I saw more files that I would have to alter than files that were "good". It seemed like more trouble than it was worth. However, my xEdit skills are nonexistent, so take my example with a grain of salt.

 

I assume this is why the xEdit Merged Patch is not in STEP, but I do not know for sure. I have not been around long enough to say if it was ever an official part of the process, although I assume it was at one point if the video contains mention of it.

 

Could a STEP staff member shed some light on this topic for us?

 

 

Also, RealShelter is not a part of STEP Core or Extended. I believe you are talking about the Frostfall addon...I don't think it works with the new Frostfall v3 at all, by the way.

When the STEP guide was first conceived the xEdit Merge script (by Mator) didn't exist, so naturally the patches were created without it.

As it now stands the Standalone Merge Tool, which is that script built into the xEdit API, is moving along at a rapid pace and will no doubt be shortly incorporated, once the STEP team become accustomed to its use.

 

It really is down to a matter of preference at this stage. The script, and tool, do what you can manually but with less errors, and more automation. Essentially as long as the correct records are being forwarded to the game engine so no conflicts occur there is no problem how it's done.



#5 sutex

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Posted 24 December 2015 - 09:39 PM

When the STEP guide was first conceived the xEdit Merge script (by Mator) didn't exist, so naturally the patches were created without it.

As it now stands the Standalone Merge Tool, which is that script built into the xEdit API, is moving along at a rapid pace and will no doubt be shortly incorporated, once the STEP team become accustomed to its use.

 

It really is down to a matter of preference at this stage. The script, and tool, do what you can manually but with less errors, and more automation. Essentially as long as the correct records are being forwarded to the game engine so no conflicts occur there is no problem how it's done.

 

I was having issues with my game , but after using the xEdit Merge , and following the step video ( even if out of date) , of what to uncheck/check and the order to do the Merge and Bash , and other patches my game is very stable.


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#6 sutex

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Posted 30 December 2015 - 08:23 PM

This entire process needs to be explained very clearly , as the BASH deactivates a few esp , and this poster is saying at least for WM TRAP FIXES , it should be re-activated

 

WM Trap Fixes will be left deactivated at the end of the instructions, and many users will not know to re-activate it.

The last process in the STEP Guide is the most crucial  Players need to know , the order to do the Merge.esp Bash.esp FNIS, Dual redux patch, *Realshelter patch,  given the Mods in the STEP Guide or like *Real Shelter some players will have as they are apart of the recommend LIST associated with ENB and/or Weather Mods that players are using.

 

I believe , the reason my DynDOLOD failed for the first 3 times is because the order I was doing the above was WRONG 

 

When making , the DynDOLOD , and it failing, it was saying bash patch is active , deactivated it

 

BUT when DynDOLOD WORKED , as its now working in game,  there was no message about , the Bash patch or my Merge patch , which where both activated , when making the DynDOLOD after doing the Merge.esp Bash.esp FNIS, Dual redux patch, *Realshelter patch, in a specific order


Edited by sutex, 30 December 2015 - 08:28 PM.

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#7 Nebulous112

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Posted 30 December 2015 - 08:54 PM

Basically, Wrye Bash can automatically merge minor mods into its Bashed Patch, along with its normal bashing of the leveled lists, etc.

When the mods are merged, the merged plugins are now duplicates, so they are automatically deactivated.

This is fine with most mods, but not with WM Trap Fixes, so the author of WM Trap Fixes added the "NoMerge" tag. This means Wrye Bash will not automatically merge it.

However, with the NoMerge bash tag, Wrye Bash will also deactivate the mod automatically (the Deactivate tag is inferred by the NoMerge tag).

As WM Trap Fixes is not merged into the bashed patch, the plugin should be reactivated (re-ticked in the right pane). As the other mods were merged into the bashed patch, they should be left unticked.


However, I doubt this particular issue caused any problems with DynDOLOD. I think it would only be the trap fixes mod itself that wouldn't work (because it's not active). The only reason I could think that it would cause a crash would be if something had WM Trap Fixes as a master.

I think your DynDOLOD issues are caused by something else, likely a missed or misinterpreted step, or a mod that is not compatible with DynDOLOD out of the box. I have personally never had any issues with DynDOLOD, but then again, I have never strayed too far from the safe shores of STEP Extended. :-P

Edited by Nebulous112, 30 December 2015 - 08:56 PM.


#8 Nebulous112

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Posted 30 December 2015 - 09:07 PM

I just re-read your post, Sutex. Follow the order in the main Wiki, from the top to the bottom.

This would be:

- STEP Compilation
- Bashed Patch
- Dual Sheath Redux
- Better Shaped Weapons
- FNIS
- DynDOLOD

As the merged patch and the RealShelter patch are not a part of STEP, not sure where they would fit in the order. I would make a custom merged patch between the Compilation and the Bashed Patch. No idea about RealShelter, though.

Edited by Nebulous112, 30 December 2015 - 09:08 PM.


#9 TechAngel85

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Posted 30 December 2015 - 09:10 PM

We're keeping an eye on Mator Smash as an option for in the future. Right now, our STEP Patches are hand crafted with each release. Also, I've never ran Real Shelter so I can't say anything on that mod.

 

What Nebulous is saying is correct.



#10 Greg

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Posted 30 December 2015 - 09:29 PM

However, with the NoMerge bash tag, Wrye Bash will also deactivate the mod automatically (the Deactivate tag is inferred by the NoMerge tag).

As WM Trap Fixes is not merged into the bashed patch, the plugin should be reactivated (re-ticked in the right pane). As the other mods were merged into the bashed patch, they should be left unticked.

Would this mitigated if WM Trap Fixes is unticked in the dialog that pops up when building the bashed patch?



#11 sutex

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Posted 30 December 2015 - 09:30 PM

We're keeping an eye on Mator Smash as an option for in the future. Right now, our STEP Patches are hand crafted with each release. Also, I've never ran Real Shelter so I can't say anything on that mod.

 

What Nebulous is saying is correct.

As the merged patch and the RealShelter patch are not a part of STEP, not sure where they would fit in the order. I would make a custom merged patch between the Compilation and the Bashed Patch. No idea about RealShelter, though.

 

 

A "custom merged patch between the Compilation and the Bashed Patch"   any instruction how to go about that, link ?  And I do have the Merge patch , as been followed in the Step videos guides , will this offset the need for a custom merged patch

 

I have my game working , even if WM Trap Fixes is deactivated , Not sure if re activating WM Trap Fixes will be a problem now , does it mean re-doing my merge ?

 

This is my CURRENT load Order , with , WM Trap Fixes deactivated

WM TRAP unchecked

 

 

WM TRap Fixes ,checked ENABLE


Edited by sutex, 30 December 2015 - 09:35 PM.

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#12 Nebulous112

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Posted 30 December 2015 - 09:53 PM

Would this mitigated if WM Trap Fixes is unticked in the dialog that pops up when building the bashed patch?

Yes.

 

It is my understanding that the NoMerge tag means that the mod will never be merged automatically, regardless of whether you tick or untick the mod in the de-activate prompt pop-up window.

 

After that dialogue pop-up closes, the Wrye Bash window will show a list of what mods will be merged. Whether I left WM Trap Fixes ticked or not in that pop-up dialogue (i.e. whether Wrye Bash deactivated the mod or not), WM Trap Fixes did not show up in the following list of mods to be merged. The NoMerge bash tag seems fairly hands-off with Wrye Bash 306. :-)

 

When WM Trap Fixes is left activated, the Bashed Patch report doesn't mention it at all (except at the beginning list of plugins), so it really seems not to matter at all as far as the bashed patch is concerned.

 

The only difference seems to be that if you let Wrye Bash deactivate the mod in that prompt (by not unticking it), then you have to re-tick it afterward.

 

 

Here are a couple relevant Wrye Bash GitHub issues (my sources, besides the very minor testing I did):

 

 - Regarding NoMerge and Deactivate: https://github.com/w...-bash/issues/51

 

 - Later issue that led to the split in the deactivate dialogue window (to seperate merged plugins from NoMerge plugins): https://github.com/w...bash/issues/161



#13 Nebulous112

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Posted 30 December 2015 - 10:12 PM

A "custom merged patch between the Compilation and the Bashed Patch"   any instruction how to go about that, link ?  And I do have the Merge patch , as been followed in the Step videos guides , will this offset the need for a custom merged patch

 

I have my game working , even if WM Trap Fixes is deactivated , Not sure if re activating WM Trap Fixes will be a problem now , does it mean re-doing my merge ?

 

This is my CURRENT load Order , with , WM Trap Fixes deactivated

WM TRAP unchecked

 

 

WM TRap Fixes ,checked ENABLE

What I mean by a custom merged patch is just a merged patch that you customize in TES5Edit. You customize it by deciding which changes are good and make sense, and which you want to revert. Also you may want to forward certain things differently than the merged patch automatically does.

 

As you mentioned before, you need to install patches in the right order. Not just have the right load order, or move them around correctly in the left pane...it is very important that you install the patches and run the patcher programs in the right order.

 

You probably should re-do your merged patch, but again, I do not advise even having a merged patch unless you edit it yourself. It can forward things that weren't meant to be forwarded, and mess with the STEP patches. But then again it could help if you have a bunch of mods not in STEP. EDIT: Thinking about this more, wouldn't you have made the Merged Patch before the Bashed Patch? So WM Trap Fixes would have still been activated? If so, no problem then. However, I have not watched the STEP videos, so I do not know the order shown.

 

Also, I think with my testing Dual Sheath Redux might have registered with one more item having Trap Fixes activated, but I can't recall clearly. It didn't really make sense to me later why it would affect DSR, but I never looked into it further.

 

If you are having problems, I would just re-do all of the patches, in the correct order (bug someone on the RealShelter Nexus page for info about that), and make sure you make a brand new game.


Edited by Nebulous112, 30 December 2015 - 10:16 PM.


#14 sutex

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Posted 30 December 2015 - 11:26 PM

"and make sure you make a brand new game" No ! :) tried of starting from the beginning in these game , for once I would like to finish a game Maybe instead "start a new game"  People start looking at save tools functions , to help with an existing saved game

 

Most of what you have said , implies a lot of knowledge , I'm just a PC gamer (never owned a console) who follows the Step guide/Videos , and the mods pages in what does what and where to place it in the load order..  Ive looked at TES5edit manual ,to try and solve why NPC are sleeping in an invisible bed at Lakeview Manor in the Entrance way, and when Ive finished War & Peace ,will read more of that novel, too try and fix the bed thing ..lol.

 

Have modded Morrowind , FO3 ( never worked well ) but that was ages ago , and a lot has changed , and if you don't stay on top of this , stuff , you forget.

 

I just want to play , not spend hour and hours , fixing tweaking a game, ( done that so many times) with all the reading as well , which drives me nuts, as I end up spending more time reading than playing.

 

This is why I'm following the guide , and not randomly adding mods with out thought or care, even if I have added some weather mods on top to the Step guide, which shouldn't be an issue.

 

 

You  also mentioned DSR , I don't have that activated for my  game  should I ?

 

Anyway thanks , will just solider on.....

 

Ps this is my Papyrus.log , just for the record

 

PapyrusUtilDev.log


Edited by sutex, 30 December 2015 - 11:38 PM.

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#15 Nebulous112

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Posted 31 December 2015 - 12:05 AM

LOL, I understand about wanting to start a new game. That is why I said, "If you are having problems".

If your game is working fine now, don't worry about it! :-) The main thing is to never remove mods if you want to use the same save. I personally don't even update or add mods during a playthrough. I make a set load order for a playthrough, and then I don't change it until I am done. I have heard of problems with save game cleaners, etc. I'm sure it works most of the time, but I personally don't want to take any risk.

Therefore I make sure everything is set up right (I take a long time to do this) and then I just play the game.


Also, with TES5Edit - just so you know, I do not have the knowledge of what to forward and what not to, either! That is why I don't mess with it (and I do not make any merged patch). I think I could learn, but one of the main reasons I ended up falling in love with STEP was because I didn't have to.

I have only been modding for I think around 6 months. Less than a year, anyway, so I bet you have more experience with modding than I do! Lol :-) My point was that the merged patch doesn't only make good changes, it can also make unintended, bad changes. That is, unless you edit the merged patch, which requires a degree of skill and knowledge that you and I do not yet possess.

As long as you follow the text of the STEP guide exactly, you will have no issues. When you add more mods, or not include certain mods, or miss steps, or misinterpret instructions, then you can run into issues that you need advanced skills to solve.


Regarding DSR, you do have it activated. You have the original Dual Sheath Redux.esp and the Dual Sheath Redux Patch.esp, which is correct.

Edit: Forgot the word "only" which changed the meaning of a sentence.

Edited by Nebulous112, 31 December 2015 - 02:36 AM.



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