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#1 Kesta

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 05:03 AM

I wanted to have this discussion for a while... what are your favorite options for AA ?

 

 

Methods I know of :

 

Multi-Sampling -> Native Skyrim's AA. Decent result and glitch free at 8 (max). Not to expensive (roughly 1.3 FPS on my system). Incompatible with ENB.

 

Driver's AA -> Depend on each system, I actually never tested mine, always left it to application-controlled. 

 

SMAA -> Good results, a bit above MSAA. However I sometime have slightly "bright" edges (they seem to "glow"  very slightly). Tend to screw up the UI.

 

Downsampling -> require ENB for what I know to function properly. Not an AA method by itself, it simply improve the already in use technique. Huge performance impact.

 

EdgeAA -> Featured in enbseries. Give some ghosting for whatever reason when used alone.

 

Subpixel AA-> Featured in enbseries. Never did too much tests with this one.

 

Temporal AA -> Featured in enbseries. Used to have a lot of issues (especially ghosting on medium FPS). Got fixed in later versions of enbseries. Performance hit a bit bigger then the other technique for what I know, but give really nice results. Actually fix completely AA with coupled with Edge AA for me (but the overall cost is about 4 fps...)

 

 

I usually go with EdgaAA + Temporal AA when I just want very nice and clean visuals (usually on setups where I don't care at all for my FPS), or simple SMAA injection for regular playthrough (despite the few glitches I mentioned above, the general visual quality compared to the cost).

 

 

What do you guys use ?

 

I know that Kyo (author of K ENB) gave up on temporal AA because it didn't work properly on its hardware and recommand SMAA + downsampling. But I can't exactly use downsampling for playthrough on my poor laptop :P


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#2 TechAngel85

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 10:04 AM

You can now downsample with the drivers. It's at least an option in GeForce Experience now.

I personally use EdgeAA+SMAA Injection on the medium preset. I never see a single jaggy on my IPS monitor (ran at 1080p).

I've heard downsampling is good, but only if you can afford the performance hit.

#3 Aiyen

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 11:40 AM

Downsampling have always been an option, you just needed to unlock it in your drivers. Also it would void warrenties on monitors... however it almost never failed. If it failed it was due to bad monitors to begin with... at least to my knowlegde. 

 

And downsampling is the superior way... more raw pixels is just the best solution. 

 

Other than that then the software based solutions, FXAA, SMAA, edge AA etc. are all the prefered options, they can stack, and they cost far far less than the hardware based MSAA options. In general if you go for MSAA, then you might as well downsample and apply a cheap software solution on top to take care of the last bits. 



#4 Audley

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 12:30 PM

At first when I read the title I thought this was going to be a thread about Alcoholics Anonymous and I was confused. Then it hit me. :P

 

Anyways, in the order from my favorite to least: 

 

  1. Supersampling/Downsampling (2-5 FPS hit at 2560x1440; never tested 4K) 
  2. MSAA + MFAA + Transparency Multisampling (if avilable) (1-2 FPS hit)
  3. SMAA and Edge AA (0 FPS Impact)
  4. FXAA (0 FPS Impact)
  5. Driver enforced AA (0 FPS Impact)

I've never used Temporal or Subpixel as they are not included in New Vegas ENB. (I don't think?)

 

Aside from Downsampling, MSAA is the way to go for most games for me. If you have a 900 series (I have a 970) GPU you have access to MFAA which improves MSAA and removes some performance hit. The performance hit with MSAA and MFAA is next to none. My only issue with it is that after 4x sampling it stops to make noticeable improvements, and doesn't work as well with up close/small objects as it does with large and far away objects. SMAA is the best in terms of pure software AA however it doesn't work in Fallout as well as it does in Skyrim for whatever reason. If I could have my way I would use both MSAA + MFAA for far away objects and use Software AA for up close objects. 

 

My ONLY issue with Downsampling aside from the FPS hit is that with it can cause the image to look blurred. You need to find the right balance of bluriness and sharpness. At some point I imagine AA will be mostly obsolete as we gain more pixels and stronger GPU's. I think if I used Downsampling at 4K + SMAA there would be zero aliasing, but with 4k the performance hit would be a bit too much on my card. 

 

Driver enforced AA is practically useless in nearly every application. Only a few seem to work. GeForce experience when I click the optimize settings button for Skyrim turns on 8x MSAA plus Downsampling and that makes me laugh. I wouldn't use more than maybe 2x MSAA if you are using Downsampling. 

 

All in all aliasing doesn't bother me as much as some people. Really thin objects like fences and wires bother me, but that's about it. In fact 2x MSAA is usually more than enough for me. I only use more than that because it's available and doesn't offer much of a performance hit. I have a 970 and I bet if you were running SLI 980 TIs you could run just about most things with the best AA settings. When I bought my 970 I was so surprised at the performance of the card I cannot even imagine how good things run on a 980 or higher. 

 

One thing you forgot to mention is something like Film Grain or a Sharpening Shader. Combined with SMAA or FXAA (which blurs the image) it can make things look less aliased in my experience. Here is what I am running currently for New Vegas:

 

  1. 2560x1440 Downsampling with 40% blur
  2. EdgeAA enabled in ENB (because why not?)
  3. Film Grain shader enabled after AA

With the Film Grain it helps the image retain its sharpness after AA has blurred it without causing much (if any) aliasing.

 

P.S. My actual favorite thing about Downsampling is that it causes words to look super smooth and round. 

 

Edit: New Vegas ENB has Accumulative AA along with EdgeAA (not sure if this is another name for Subpixel or Temporal) however it's broken in New Vegas as it causes thin objects like rugs and wires to glow pure white.


Edited by Audley, 15 January 2016 - 12:34 PM.

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#5 Kesta

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 12:59 PM

Haha, I could also open a topic a topic about anonymous alcoholic... though I don't care about the anonymous part :P But I wouldn't do it here on the ENB support forum ^^

 

 

I really don't like the bluriness around the edge introduced by FXAA. (didn't even mention it in the first post). FXAA basically trade aliasing for some kind of halo. It can look really awful with high-contrast lighting.

 

AMD user here, and my card is nothing like a regular gaming gpu (pro card, so it's somehow more reliable and don't give a sh*t about the number of poly it have to show -0 performance it with SMIM >_< - or the number of things it have to animate, however built-in post-processing features aren't that great).

 

 

I'll try to add EdgeAA to SMAA for skyrim, seems like a regular practice and doesn't cost much. Plus I think I read somewhere it could help with UI distorsion. Downsampmling is be a bit too much, I usually tailor my setup to be just between 55 and 60 fps, so I'd have to make a few sacrifices. Tried it once, and little tom didn't like it.

 

 

Btw, I HATE DoF, and medium or above bluriness make the game look cartoonish to me, so near-perfect AA is critical ^^ and overall, it make the game look neater to my eyes, even when i'm not looking at an aliased edge somewhere. When I look at two scenes and one have slight aliasing while the other is completely aliasing-free, even if I don't look at specific part of the image, the overall feeling feel more "clean".

 

 

Thanks for the feedbacks, I really didn't expect that much in such a short amount of time ^^


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#6 MonoAccipiter

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 01:09 PM

You're right about Temporal AA not being included in FNV ENBs, Audley, which is sad because it's the only AA that helps with the shimmering I get (especially from using AO) when using ENB shaders in both Skyrim and FNV. Had no idea he'd been able to reduce the ghosting in the newer versions though, this made Skyrim all the more tempting for me again.  :innocent:

 

Would you mind going a bit more into detail about how you use that film grain effect. I downsample too, but it hasn't really rid me of the fairly bad aliasing.


Edited by MonoAccipiter, 15 January 2016 - 01:11 PM.

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#7 hishutup

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 01:12 PM

If it was my choice, txaa 100% of the time, sadly it's heavy and not everyone supports it.
Taa is okay but fo4 implementation is poor quality.

2nd best is down sampling 2715x1527 with msaa x4 but its very heavy and the ui can be a little soft

#8 Kelmych

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 01:56 PM

 

 

Btw, I HATE DoF, and medium or above bluriness make the game look cartoonish to me,

 

 

Sometimes reading the posts here I think I'm the only user who dislikes DoF; it doesn't seem at all realistic to me.

 

I'll haven't been using EdgeAA but I'll look into it.



#9 TechAngel85

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 03:03 PM

I HATE DoF, as well! It's the first thing I turn off in any ENB Preset I use. It's gimmicky and unrealistic. I understand that it helps hide z-fighting, but I don't care. I'd rather the z-fighting.

#10 Aiyen

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 03:23 PM

You can add sharpening shaders, and DoF or any combination thereoff which will help fight aliasing by partly bluring out the pixels and then resharpen them again. Done right it can help under some circumstances. 

Edge AA is essentially just edge detection and blur combined. Which is more or less the same idea. However due to it being applied in a different way it does not blur the entire image as much. 

 

Also most DoF´s are meant to be for photoshoting only, and if you notice it too much it is just annoying. The best DoF´s are those that are subtle, and that goes for any games. 

The one I made for skylight ENB is rather unique in this way... also I only really little over half the screen instead of the whole thing, so you almost never notice it on the close objects. While it still helps with Z-fighting.. until you focus on that distance anyways. 



#11 MonoAccipiter

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 05:21 PM

I love DoF, but then again I always found reality a bit unsatisfying (#MidnightInParis), so the realism selling point didn't always stick with me.  :;):

 

Damnit, if I wanna roleplay as living camera, I'll roleplay as living camera!  :yes:


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#12 GrantSP

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 05:28 PM

As a new AMD GPU user I'm still coming to grips with alot of settings on my card. So may I add in a couple of Radeon specific questions?

  1. Where/how do I adjust DoF on the Radeon Settings?
  2. What is "Virtual Super Resolution" and should I use it? The blurb in the app describes it this way:
Allows games to render at increased resolutions then rescales them back down for your display to provide rich image detail and visual quality.

 

Sounds good but possibly with a hit to performance?



#13 MonoAccipiter

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 07:40 PM

Virtual Super Resolution is CCC controlled downsampling. It allows you to select higher resolutions in game setting just like other downsampling settings. I run it with little to no impact in FNV (with ENB), but I haven't tried it in newer titles.

 

Don't think you can set DoF in CCC.  :confused:


Edited by MonoAccipiter, 15 January 2016 - 07:41 PM.

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#14 GrantSP

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 09:14 PM

Virtual Super Resolution is CCC controlled downsampling. It allows you to select higher resolutions in game setting just like other downsampling settings. I run it with little to no impact in FNV (with ENB), but I haven't tried it in newer titles.

 

Don't think you can set DoF in CCC.  :confused:

Thanks.  :;):



#15 darkside

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 09:42 PM

I like dynamic DoF, but really hate static DoF. I use Edge AA + Subpixel AA with minimal performance loss.
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