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Dynamic Distant Objects LOD - DynDOLOD 2.21

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#16 sheson

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Posted 24 October 2016 - 12:12 PM

Nice work on the persistent records toggle.  I may just have to overcook things again just to test it!  After the previous discussions I stripped out four or five mods and have been running 'lite' ever since :P

When you do these test, get this updated countref.pas for xEdit.

 

I have the theory that the 64k limit of persistent references is the number of the combined persistent references from a parent worldspace and all its child worlds, like the cities etc. Child worlds can have a flag called 'Use Sky Cell', so this might be a factor as well.

 

Note that in Legendary there is only the parent worldspaces Tamriel and Solstheim. There is a 3rd parent cwtest that can be ignored.

All other worldspaces are childs one way or another.

 

The updated script sums the total for each worldspace parent+childs with the flag set (f) and another total with the flag ignored.

 

Just right click on any plugin in the left window and apply script.

 

Let me know if you can figure out if the limit is with/without flags or not related at all.


Edited by sheson, 24 October 2016 - 12:30 PM.

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#17 Sundder

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Posted 24 October 2016 - 12:48 PM

Hi Sheson, Hi dunc001,

 

I was just going to look you guys up as I stumbled onto a bit more info on this CTD yesterday. And wouldn't you know it, Sheson has already moved on this to try to mitigate the problem!

 

Alright, I'll start with the additional bit I found. Like dunc, I've been "running lite" so to speak to avoid triggering this "overload" bug. Just a couple mods short so I can at least swap out quest/adventure/dungeon mods and play through them one at a time. Then it dropped Death Mountain 2 into my load order. DM2 has no scripts at all, not even TIFs, just LODS, meshes and textures, and an ESP of course. Since I hadn't had any problems with scriptless mods before, I thought this would be safe. Nope. Same overload CTD. O.k., so I pull out a couple of big worldspace mods and lo and behold DM2 loads.

 

O.k., so I go back to the earlier config where DM2 CTDs.... Its not the LODs, meshes or textures or I would just CTD all the time. It's not scripts or fragments because it doesn't have any. Which only leaves what's in the ESP.

 

So I have a look at the ESP with TES5Edit. I figure since the ESP is basically used to put static objects and recipes into the world, then fine, I'll just see if I can't start deleting sections of the ESP until I can get the game to load with it in the load order.

 

I remove Worldspaces, nope. NPCs, nope, Locations, Containers, Constructible Object, all nope, nope, nope. I do these one at a time and if it still CTDs I drop in a fresh copy of the ESP and remove the next category.

 

Then I delete the Cells.

 

And bloody LOAD.

 

All of a sudden I'm in my regular game. I can also start a new game.

 

So I look at the Cells manually in TES5Edit and good lord, tens of thousands of Permanent and Temporary references, at about a 1/6 ratio. And many, many more permanent references in Cells than in Worldspaces (in worldspaces they're almost all temps).

 

So I applied your countrefs script, Sheson [EDIT: I was writing as you were replying to dunc, Sheson; the countref.pas I used was the first one you let us have about three weeks ago. I'll get your new one now], to WorldSpaces in DM2 and get back just 16909. When applied to the Cells of the same mod I get back 56463. Again, not 64 000 or some such, but there's no question: pulling those references from the ESP lets the engine load a save or start a new game. It probably doesn't do much for Death Mountain 2, though...

 

(Thankfully, I found that I can load Clockwork without triggering the CTD, especially given that Halloween is just around the corner :)

 

O.k., so as soon as I get the chance, I'm going to upgrade to version 2.20 of DynDOLOD and see if I can throw a few more mods at this load order that would otherwise CTD it. (Here's hoping I don't mess up the update; the last time I did that was with v2.14...and it's been triple A+).

 

Also, should someone like Arthmoor, or Nazenn specifically, be given a heads up on this issue given they're generally the gatekeepers of bugs, conflicts and engine problems?


Edited by Sundder, 24 October 2016 - 01:01 PM.

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#18 sheson

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Posted 24 October 2016 - 02:25 PM

Hi Sheson, Hi dunc001,

 

I was just going to look you guys up as I stumbled onto a bit more info on this CTD yesterday. And wouldn't you know it, Sheson has already moved on this to try to mitigate the problem!

 

Alright, I'll start with the additional bit I found. Like dunc, I've been "running lite" so to speak to avoid triggering this "overload" bug. Just a couple mods short so I can at least swap out quest/adventure/dungeon mods and play through them one at a time. Then it dropped Death Mountain 2 into my load order. DM2 has no scripts at all, not even TIFs, just LODS, meshes and textures, and an ESP of course. Since I hadn't had any problems with scriptless mods before, I thought this would be safe. Nope. Same overload CTD. O.k., so I pull out a couple of big worldspace mods and lo and behold DM2 loads.

 

O.k., so I go back to the earlier config where DM2 CTDs.... Its not the LODs, meshes or textures or I would just CTD all the time. It's not scripts or fragments because it doesn't have any. Which only leaves what's in the ESP.

 

So I have a look at the ESP with TES5Edit. I figure since the ESP is basically used to put static objects and recipes into the world, then fine, I'll just see if I can't start deleting sections of the ESP until I can get the game to load with it in the load order.

 

I remove Worldspaces, nope. NPCs, nope, Locations, Containers, Constructible Object, all nope, nope, nope. I do these one at a time and if it still CTDs I drop in a fresh copy of the ESP and remove the next category.

 

Then I delete the Cells.

 

And bloody LOAD.

 

All of a sudden I'm in my regular game. I can also start a new game.

 

So I look at the Cells manually in TES5Edit and good lord, tens of thousands of Permanent and Temporary references, at about a 1/6 ratio. And many, many more permanent references in Cells than in Worldspaces (in worldspaces they're almost all temps).

 

So I applied your countrefs script, Sheson [EDIT: I was writing as you were replying to dunc, Sheson; the countref.pas I used was the first one you let us have about three weeks ago. I'll get your new one now], to WorldSpaces in DM2 and get back just 16909. When applied to the Cells of the same mod I get back 56463. Again, not 64 000 or some such, but there's no question: pulling those references from the ESP lets the engine load a save or start a new game. It probably doesn't do much for Death Mountain 2, though...

 

(Thankfully, I found that I can load Clockwork without triggering the CTD, especially given that Halloween is just around the corner :)

 

O.k., so as soon as I get the chance, I'm going to upgrade to version 2.20 of DynDOLOD and see if I can throw a few more mods at this load order that would otherwise CTD it. (Here's hoping I don't mess up the update; the last time I did that was with v2.14...and it's been triple A+).

 

Also, should someone like Arthmoor, or Nazenn specifically, be given a heads up on this issue given they're generally the gatekeepers of bugs, conflicts and engine problems?

 

Yes, please check with the new script again for sure. Right now temporary references should not matter.


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#19 CtMrebelL10N

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Posted 24 October 2016 - 02:27 PM

I am trying to run generate the DynDOLOD but ran into an error. I checked the background loader to find that most of the Skyrim.bsa's were skipped. Not sure what the deal is or how to proceed. Below is the error log:

 

https://www.dropbox....OD_log.txt?dl=0

 

Edit more background:

Been having various problems with this install and execution.

For instance, there was an error when trying to create files for the cache. It was referencing the Data directory in the error code so I created the folder at:

Z:\Games\Skyrim\steamapps\common\Skyrim\Data\Edit Scripts\DynDOLOD\cache

 

...despite the actual folder where DynoDOLOD is installed being located in the Mod Organizer folder at:

Z:\Games\Skyrim\steamapps\common\Skyrim\Mod Organizer\mods\DynDOLOD


Edited by CtMrebelL10N, 24 October 2016 - 02:42 PM.

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#20 sheson

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Posted 24 October 2016 - 02:41 PM

I am trying to run generate the DynDOLOD but ran into an error. I checked the background loader to find the most of the Skyrim.bsa's were skipped. Not sure what the deal is or how to proceed. Below is the error log:

 

https://www.dropbox....OD_log.txt?dl=0

See this post


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#21 CtMrebelL10N

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Posted 24 October 2016 - 02:44 PM

Rodger that, will try and get back to you. Thanks for the prompt response!


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#22 jonny6101

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Posted 24 October 2016 - 03:28 PM

Ran into a bug when running DynDOLOD.exe Patcher on Beyond Reach by razorkid1. end up with the following error. Exception in unit userscript line 322: List index out of bounds (-1). Not really sure how to troubleshoot this as I am by no means proficient in how your mod works. I know that it is one of the three world spaces for razorkid's mod as DynDOLOD runs fine without selecting those spaces. Is there a way that I can figure out how to fix this? I am fine playing without DynDOLOD for those world spaces, but I really enjoy troubleshooting mods and would like to figure this out.


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#23 sheson

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Posted 24 October 2016 - 04:16 PM

Ran into a bug when running DynDOLOD.exe Patcher on Beyond Reach by razorkid1. end up with the following error. Exception in unit userscript line 322: List index out of bounds (-1). Not really sure how to troubleshoot this as I am by no means proficient in how your mod works. I know that it is one of the three world spaces for razorkid's mod as DynDOLOD runs fine without selecting those spaces. Is there a way that I can figure out how to fix this? I am fine playing without DynDOLOD for those world spaces, but I really enjoy troubleshooting mods and would like to figure this out.

Please post/upload DynDOLOD\Logs\DynDOLOD_log.txt


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#24 ADParker

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Posted 24 October 2016 - 05:04 PM

Like jonny6101 and CtMrebelL10N, my running of DynDOLOD.exe (and x64 version) ended with an error in line 322.

Here's the end of the log showing that exception report:

[00:03:06.038]	Creating mini atlas data
[00:03:06.130]	Gathering meshes for atlas creation
[00:03:06.282]	Processing meshes for atlas creation
[00:03:06.782]	Creating atlas textures C:\Users\Vargr\Documents\Games\Elder Scrolls\Skyrim\DynDOLOD-2.19\DynDOLOD\DynDOLOD_Output\Textures\DynDOLOD\LOD\DynDOLOD_Flat_Atlas_Tamriel.dds from 32 textures
[00:03:13.474]	Creating atlas textures C:\Users\Vargr\Documents\Games\Elder Scrolls\Skyrim\DynDOLOD-2.19\DynDOLOD\DynDOLOD_Output\Textures\DynDOLOD\LOD\DynDOLOD_Atlas_Tamriel.dds from 136 textures
[00:03:40.210]	Combining mini atlas map
[00:03:40.232]	Combining flat atlas map
[00:03:40.249]	Executing LODGenx64.exe
[00:03:40.263]	"C:\Users\Vargr\Documents\Games\Elder Scrolls\Skyrim\DynDOLOD-2.19\DynDOLOD\Edit Scripts\LODGenx64.exe" --inputfile "C:\Users\Vargr\Documents\Games\Elder Scrolls\Skyrim\DynDOLOD-2.19\DynDOLOD\Edit Scripts\Export\LODGen_Tamriel.txt" --logfile "C:\Users\Vargr\Documents\Games\Elder Scrolls\Skyrim\DynDOLOD-2.19\DynDOLOD\Logs\LODGen_Tamriel_log.txt" --dontFixTangents --removeUnseenFaces --skyblivionTexPath
[00:03:40.287]	Found C:\Users\Vargr\Documents\Games\Elder Scrolls\Skyrim\DynDOLOD-2.19\DynDOLOD\Edit Scripts\DynDOLOD\DynDOLOD_TES5_manual_refr_Tamriel.txt
[00:03:40.309]	Add 5 manual cells for DynDOLOD
[00:03:40.336]	Adding Master into Tamriel
[00:03:40.359]	Setting up 10413 cells with 625 active cells for 3350 dynamic LOD objects for DynDOLOD - T
[00:04:26.901]	
[00:04:26.901]	Exception in unit userscript line 322: One or more errors occurred
[00:04:26.901]	
[00:04:26.901]	Check log lines above the exception for additional hints.
[00:04:26.901]	If problem persists, post error report with contents of ..\DynDOLOD\logs\DynDOLOD_log.txt to http://forum.step-project.com/topic/5011-dynamic-distant-objects-lod-dyndolod

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#25 sheson

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Posted 24 October 2016 - 05:11 PM

Like jonny6101 and CtMrebelL10N, my running of DynDOLOD.exe (and x64 version) ended with an error in line 322.
Here's the end of the log showing that exception report:

Update DynDOLOD to 2.20

Edited by sheson, 24 October 2016 - 05:11 PM.

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#26 jonny6101

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Posted 24 October 2016 - 06:35 PM

Update DynDOLOD to 2.20

Totally worked. Awesome mod man. I can't even begin to think how long this took to make. I would love to learn more about this mod and how it works. Any tips on reading material?


Edited by jonny6101, 24 October 2016 - 06:41 PM.

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#27 sheson

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Posted 24 October 2016 - 07:00 PM

Totally worked. Awesome mod man. I can't even begin to think how long this took to make. I would love to learn more about this mod and how it works. Any tips on reading material?


It took over 2 1/2 years so far. Not counting the time having to fix Skyrim memory first for the increased memory demands and the problems I ran into while trying to add more full model neverfades.

Have a look at DynDOLOD\Docs\DynDOLOD_Reference.html. It is somewhat outdated, missing some of the latest stuff, but at the core it will be still correct. Just reading the manual top to bottom will also explain a lot, also about steps that are not needed to be done by users anymore, like splitting existing tree LOD. If you follow from proof of concept of dynamic LOD in 2014 that ran hours (well, the original first post is missing, but from 2nd post on... I mean if you are really really bored but interested) to Zilav programming the tree LOD and TES5LODGen and us getting hold of the source of LODGen.exe from Ehamloptiran so I could start to fix issues and add features myself, there is quite some history - and some of that still shows in the manual explaining things that thankfully nobody has to do anymore (old video).


Edited by sheson, 24 October 2016 - 07:11 PM.

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#28 FatKidWitAJetPak

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Posted 24 October 2016 - 07:15 PM

I can not really help with problems the game already has when DynDOLOD is not installed. I suggest you follow a modding guide like S.T.E.P. from the ground up.

Then read the performance section in the manual.

The problem is, my game only stopped working so well once I installed DynDOLOD. I had done extensive testing prior, and the game worked just fine. Now, upon trying to reinstall three times from the ground up and uninstalling, the game still doesn't work. In the end, I'm going to backup my INI's and reinstall Skyrim. Its a good thing I can keep my configurations and easily reinstall all mods via Nexus Mod Manager. Of course, expected results for this sort of thing always varies from machine to machine. Thank you for putting out the resources and guides to help make the testing possible, at least. Perhaps, this has something to do with my AMD card.


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#29 sheson

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Posted 24 October 2016 - 07:31 PM

The problem is, my game only stopped working so well once I installed DynDOLOD. I had done extensive testing prior, and the game worked just fine. Now, upon trying to reinstall three times from the ground up and uninstalling, the game still doesn't work. In the end, I'm going to backup my INI's and reinstall Skyrim. Its a good thing I can keep my configurations and easily reinstall all mods via Nexus Mod Manager. Of course, expected results for this sort of thing always varies from machine to machine. Thank you for putting out the resources and guides to help make the testing possible, at least. Perhaps, this has something to do with my AMD card.

You wrote the game has problems after you deleted DynDOLOD. When modding correctly, something that does not exist can not cause problems. I can not help with troubleshooting something that does not exist. Typically the first troubleshooting step would be to disable the mod you created from the output. If the problem still exists afterwards, it means the cause is not the mod you just disabled. I guess you might want to verify that the mod is actually disabled for real.

I suggest you follow a modding guide like S.T.E.P. from the ground up. Then read the performance section in the manual.


Edited by sheson, 24 October 2016 - 07:46 PM.

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#30 CtMrebelL10N

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Posted 24 October 2016 - 09:19 PM

IRT #20

 

That was indeed the problem. Thanks again!


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