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Dynamic Distant Objects LOD - DynDOLOD 2.21

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#31 Sundder

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Posted 25 October 2016 - 02:02 AM

Yes, please check with the new script again for sure. Right now temporary references should not matter.

Well, now we're really getting somewhere. Here are my results...

 

Non-CTD Load Order:

 

Total for each parent world including child worlds with Use Sky Cell flag
 

Tamriel 53410

CWTestHold 17
DLC2SolstheimWorld 3709
WyrmstoothWorld 3210
manny_GF_O 717
manny_GF_Desert 2133
MBITreacheryCircle 726
MBIFraudCircle 10
00MBI_GluttonyWorld 973
WhiterunWorld 84
MBI_Darren_Anger_worldspace1 577
0_MBI_Dante_ARENA1 1442
MBI_Limbo 811
BDBStabbyHideoutWorld 45
WZONESwarehouse 43
WZONESwarehouseWZA 44
ERDPGiantCave01World 44
ERDPGiantCave02World 24
WindPass_World 26
Vuldur 9
arnimaDUPLICATE003 5254
ArnimaVoid 1638
XJKislandWorld 1534
ACX_TheGatewayRuined_Worldspace 583
ACX_TheGatewayExt_Worldspace 593

 

==============================
Total for each parent world including all child worlds

Tamriel 65228 <–Is this looking suspicious yet?

 

CWTestHold 17
DLC2SolstheimWorld 4897
WyrmstoothWorld 4412
manny_GF_O 717
manny_GF_Desert 2613
MBITreacheryCircle 726
MBIFraudCircle 10
00MBI_GluttonyWorld 973
WhiterunWorld 84
MBI_Darren_Anger_worldspace1 577
0_MBI_Dante_ARENA1 1442
MBI_Limbo 811
BDBStabbyHideoutWorld 45
WZONESwarehouse 43
WZONESwarehouseWZA 44
ERDPGiantCave01World 44
ERDPGiantCave02World 24
WindPass_World 26
Vuldur 9
tos_SunkenTowerWorld 6
arnimaDUPLICATE003 6303
ArnimaVoid 1638
XJKislandWorld 1534
ACX_TheGatewayRuined_Worldspace 583
ACX_TheGatewayExt_Worldspace 593

==============================
93399 Grand Total

 

CTD Load order (Same as above but with Death Mountain 2 added)

 

Total for each parent world including child worlds with Use Sky Cell flag
 
Tamriel 53449

CWTestHold 17
DLC2SolstheimWorld 3709
WyrmstoothWorld 3210
manny_GF_O 717
manny_GF_Desert 2133
MBITreacheryCircle 726
MBIFraudCircle 10
00MBI_GluttonyWorld 973
WhiterunWorld 84
MBI_Darren_Anger_worldspace1 577
0_MBI_Dante_ARENA1 1442
MBI_Limbo 811
BDBStabbyHideoutWorld 45
WZONESwarehouse 43
WZONESwarehouseWZA 44
ERDPGiantCave01World 44
ERDPGiantCave02World 24
WindPass_World 26
Vuldur 9
arnimaDUPLICATE003 5254
ArnimaVoid 1638
XJKislandWorld 1534
ACX_TheGatewayRuined_Worldspace 583
ACX_TheGatewayExt_Worldspace 593
 
==============================
Total for each parent world including all child worlds
 
Tamriel   65898   <– Yup, this crashes my Skyrim to desktop on save load or new game
 
CWTestHold 17
DLC2SolstheimWorld 4897
WyrmstoothWorld 4412
manny_GF_O 717
manny_GF_Desert 2613
MBITreacheryCircle 726
MBIFraudCircle 10
00MBI_GluttonyWorld 973
WhiterunWorld 84
MBI_Darren_Anger_worldspace1 577
0_MBI_Dante_ARENA1 1442
MBI_Limbo 811
BDBStabbyHideoutWorld 45
WZONESwarehouse 43
WZONESwarehouseWZA 44
ERDPGiantCave01World 44
ERDPGiantCave02World 24
WindPass_World 26
Vuldur 9
Sovngarde 763
tos_SunkenTowerWorld 6
arnimaDUPLICATE003 6303
ArnimaVoid 1638
XJKislandWorld 1534
ACX_TheGatewayRuined_Worldspace 583
ACX_TheGatewayExt_Worldspace 593
==============================
94832 Grand Total
 
But wait, it gets better!
 
Non-CTD Load Order Without DynDOLOD 2.14 (sorry, haven't gotten around to setting up 2.20 yet)
 
Total for each parent world including child worlds with Use Sky Cell flag
 
Tamriel 26941
 
CWTestHold 17
DLC2SolstheimWorld 1696
WyrmstoothWorld 753
manny_GF_O 10
manny_GF_Desert 245
MBITreacheryCircle 81
MBIFraudCircle 10
00MBI_GluttonyWorld 33
WhiterunWorld 84
MBI_Darren_Anger_worldspace1 133
0_MBI_Dante_ARENA1 371
MBI_Limbo 156
BDBStabbyHideoutWorld 45
WZONESwarehouse 43
WZONESwarehouseWZA 44
ERDPGiantCave01World 44
ERDPGiantCave02World 24
WindPass_World 26
Vuldur 9
arnimaDUPLICATE003 1213
ArnimaVoid 151
XJKislandWorld 195
ACX_TheGatewayRuined_Worldspace 38
ACX_TheGatewayExt_Worldspace 19
==============================

Total for each parent world including all child worlds
 
Tamriel 32087 <– Good grief, that's HALF of the total with DynDOLOD medium output active!!! Sheson, you done gone and broke Skyrim ;)
 
CWTestHold 17
DLC2SolstheimWorld 1925
WyrmstoothWorld 903
manny_GF_O 10
manny_GF_Desert 247
MBITreacheryCircle 81
MBIFraudCircle 10
00MBI_GluttonyWorld 33
WhiterunWorld 84
MBI_Darren_Anger_worldspace1 133
0_MBI_Dante_ARENA1 371
MBI_Limbo 156
BDBStabbyHideoutWorld 45
WZONESwarehouse 43
WZONESwarehouseWZA 44
ERDPGiantCave01World 44
ERDPGiantCave02World 24
WindPass_World 26
Vuldur 9
Sovngarde 763
tos_SunkenTowerWorld 6
arnimaDUPLICATE003 1412
ArnimaVoid 151
XJKislandWorld 195
ACX_TheGatewayRuined_Worldspace 38
ACX_TheGatewayExt_Worldspace 19
==============================
38876 Grand Total

So now I know why I first ran into this when I installed DynDOLOD, almost at the tail end of my planned load order.

 

Can't wait to see what results I get with 2.20 and the Temp refs toggle turned on!


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#32 sheson

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Posted 25 October 2016 - 04:07 AM

Well, now we're really getting somewhere. Here are my results...

 

So now I know why I first ran into this when I installed DynDOLOD, almost at the tail end of my planned load order.

 

Can't wait to see what results I get with 2.20 and the Temp refs toggle turned on!

So for now it looks the sky cell flag doesn't matter and it is just all of them.

The threshold should be 65535 - in case you can remove single mods to get as close as possible if you can.

 

There is one thing with Death Mountain 2, where it creates one new worldspace that has Sovnguard as a parent, which in turn has Tamriel as parent. Other mods in your list may do this too. They are counted separately right now -> Sovngarde 763 and not added to Tamriel. Based on your totals, check the loglines above where a mod adds 84 reference to a worldspace that has WhiterunWorld as parent. They may count to the Tamriel limit as well.


Edited by sheson, 25 October 2016 - 04:10 AM.

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#33 tampatip

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Posted 25 October 2016 - 09:28 AM

It looks like you installed DynDOLOD Standalone as a mod in MO. Do not do that.

Install it into a new 'DynDOLOD' folder outside of special OS folders like 'Programs Files' or 'Program Files (x86)', the SteamApps or game folders and Mod Organizers virtual file structure.

How do I get DynDOLOD to see the Resources and Mods within MO when I install DynDOLOD outside of MO?


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#34 sheson

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Posted 25 October 2016 - 09:38 AM

How do I get DynDOLOD to see the Resources and Mods within MO when I install DynDOLOD outside of MO?

You start DynDOLOD.exe from MO just like the game or any other tool. I suggest to follow a modding guide like S.T.E.P. and/or watch the Gamerpoets video if you are new to modding or MO.


Edited by sheson, 25 October 2016 - 09:39 AM.

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#35 Sundder

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Posted 25 October 2016 - 11:59 AM

So for now it looks the sky cell flag doesn't matter and it is just all of them.

The threshold should be 65535 - in case you can remove single mods to get as close as possible if you can.

 

There is one thing with Death Mountain 2, where it creates one new worldspace that has Sovnguard as a parent, which in turn has Tamriel as parent. Other mods in your list may do this too. They are counted separately right now -> Sovngarde 763 and not added to Tamriel. Based on your totals, check the loglines above where a mod adds 84 reference to a worldspace that has WhiterunWorld as parent. They may count to the Tamriel limit as well.

O.k., I'm getting some odd results.

 

I've been doing further testing with DynDOLOD 2.14 installed. (I should be able to test with 2.20 within the week with and without the temp refs toggled on.)

 

I've been swapping mods in and out and checking whether I can load or if I CDT and have found some combinations that CDT me starting at about 65 300 perm refs for Tamriel based on the latest countref.pas.

 

Finally, I added:

 

Jurgholm
Den Erovrade Staden
Dreadmyst Hollow (Cleaned)
Here There Be Monsters

 

to my load order and passed (loaded) with 65451:

 

"Total for each parent world including all child worlds
Tamriel 65451"

 

Then I added a small house mod that has its own small worldspace, Pale Marsh Manor Lite and still managed to load.

 

Thing is, running countref returned this:

 

"Total for each parent world including all child worlds
Tamriel 65640"

 

Yikes!

 

But when I checked the list of refs, Pale Marsh Manor Lite added most of these as flagged:

 

2 PaleMarshLite.esp for Tamriel in Tamriel
0 PaleMarshLite.esp for Tamriel in SouthfringeWorld
0 PaleMarshLite.esp for Tamriel in BluePalaceWingWorld
0 PaleMarshLite.esp for Tamriel in DLC1AncestorsGladeWorld
187 PaleMarshLite.esp for Tamriel in 00PaleMarsh (f)

 

Still, the closer I get Tamriel perm refs to 65535 the more I fail to load. It's almost impossible passed 65350 and took some creative selection from my mod stock.


Edited by Sundder, 25 October 2016 - 11:59 AM.

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#36 sheson

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Posted 25 October 2016 - 12:39 PM

O.k., I'm getting some odd results.
 
I've been doing further testing with DynDOLOD 2.14 installed. (I should be able to test with 2.20 within the week with and without the temp refs toggled on.)
 
I've been swapping mods in and out and checking whether I can load or if I CDT and have found some combinations that CDT me starting at about 65 300 perm refs for Tamriel based on the latest countref.pas.
 
Finally, I added:
 
Jurgholm
Den Erovrade Staden
Dreadmyst Hollow (Cleaned)
Here There Be Monsters
 
to my load order and passed (loaded) with 65451:
 
"Total for each parent world including all child worlds
Tamriel 65451"
 
Then I added a small house mod that has its own small worldspace, Pale Marsh Manor Lite and still managed to load.
 
Thing is, running countref returned this:
 
"Total for each parent world including all child worlds
Tamriel 65640"
 
Yikes!
 
But when I checked the list of refs, Pale Marsh Manor Lite added most of these as flagged:
 
2 PaleMarshLite.esp for Tamriel in Tamriel
0 PaleMarshLite.esp for Tamriel in SouthfringeWorld
0 PaleMarshLite.esp for Tamriel in BluePalaceWingWorld
0 PaleMarshLite.esp for Tamriel in DLC1AncestorsGladeWorld
187 PaleMarshLite.esp for Tamriel in 00PaleMarsh (f)
 
Still, the closer I get Tamriel perm refs to 65535 the more I fail to load. It's almost impossible passed 65350 and took some creative selection from my mod stock.

 
 
Can you post entire log for when you had Tamriel 65640 and it still loaded? I may spot something.

I guess we are understanding the problem well enough, it would be just nice to exactly have it down to the last bit of what counts towards the limit and what not.
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#37 Sundder

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Posted 25 October 2016 - 05:58 PM

Can you post entire log for when you had Tamriel 65640 and it still loaded? I may spot something.

I guess we are understanding the problem well enough, it would be just nice to exactly have it down to the last bit of what counts towards the limit and what not.

Sure thing; here you go:
 

Edited by sheson, 25 October 2016 - 06:08 PM.
added spoiler tags

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#38 Grizzlyadamz

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Posted 26 October 2016 - 07:59 PM

Passing on a difficulty I had with what little info I can.

Dyndolod.exe stopped responding twice- once with the 64-bit version and again with the normal version. Both times it was creating atlas textures, but unfortunately I didn't copy down the exact step on the left. Both times the CPU usage was down to 0. Both times I let it sit for 30-40 minutes before restarting.

The first time I had it open in the background & was doing other things on my desktop.

The second time it was open but I was away from the PC.

On the third attempt, I sat down with task manager opened & watched it as it worked. That time it pulled through in a normal time, (about 10 minutes).

 

I know it's of minimal use for bug-fixing, but posting anyway since it might help other users who run into the same problem.


Edited by Grizzlyadamz, 26 October 2016 - 07:59 PM.

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#39 sheson

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Posted 27 October 2016 - 06:14 AM

Passing on a difficulty I had with what little info I can.
Dyndolod.exe stopped responding twice- once with the 64-bit version and again with the normal version. Both times it was creating atlas textures, but unfortunately I didn't copy down the exact step on the left. Both times the CPU usage was down to 0. Both times I let it sit for 30-40 minutes before restarting.
The first time I had it open in the background & was doing other things on my desktop.
The second time it was open but I was away from the PC.
On the third attempt, I sat down with task manager opened & watched it as it worked. That time it pulled through in a normal time, (about 10 minutes).
 
I know it's of minimal use for bug-fixing, but posting anyway since it might help other users who run into the same problem.


Yeah if it ever stalls on you like this (and it is not an installation path issue, like special windows folder, MO, game folder) try again to check if it happens again.
For two potential spots in the process there are two ini switches FasterBase and FasterCreate. If that doesn't help, make a screenshot of the log window. These are rare multithreading problems and hard to track down unless I can replicate them.

Edited by sheson, 27 October 2016 - 06:14 AM.

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#40 LordOfLA

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Posted 27 October 2016 - 07:07 AM

Sheson,

 

I don't have a screenshot currently, but DynDOLOD seems to be behaving strangely with Windhelm - mostly up by Hjerim, the market, and Calixto's house. It'll leave certain lod objects in place - either windows floating a short distance in front of the parent building, or leave the lod textures up in front of the full model (meaning if I can walk or position the camera on the other side the full detail stuff is right there).

 

Modlist, load order, ini's can be found at https://modwat.ch/u/ArcaneEntanglement if you need any other details let me know.


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#41 sheson

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Posted 27 October 2016 - 08:11 AM

Sheson,

 

I don't have a screenshot currently, but DynDOLOD seems to be behaving strangely with Windhelm - mostly up by Hjerim, the market, and Calixto's house. It'll leave certain lod objects in place - either windows floating a short distance in front of the parent building, or leave the lod textures up in front of the full model (meaning if I can walk or position the camera on the other side the full detail stuff is right there).

 

Modlist, load order, ini's can be found at https://modwat.ch/u/ArcaneEntanglement if you need any other details let me know.

This sounds typical of updating a save game without doing the clean save routine. Test with a new game by typing coc windhelmexterior01 in console from main menu.


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#42 LordOfLA

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Posted 27 October 2016 - 09:03 AM

It happened with a new game, did the coc to windhelm thing. During daylight it's fine, at night the weird behaviour happens. Screen with mfgconsole details: https://i.imgur.com/x31cwVq.jpg image is looking at blacksmith quaters in the market place.


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#43 sheson

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Posted 27 October 2016 - 10:43 AM

It happened with a new game, did the coc to windhelm thing. During daylight it's fine, at night the weird behaviour happens. Screen with mfgconsole details: https://i.imgur.com/x31cwVq.jpg image is looking at blacksmith quaters in the market place.

Click the main building for that window, see if a mod changes the reference (lastRefChange) or base record (lastBaseChange).


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#44 Sundder

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Posted 27 October 2016 - 11:07 AM

Hi Sheson, I've upgraded to 2.20 and would like to do a run with both Temporary=0 and Temporary=1 but can't find a DynDOLOD.ini. I've found a bunch of ini's in DynDOLOD 2-20\Edit Scripts\DynDOLOD and there's c:\users\[username]\AppData\Local\Skyrim\DynDOLOD_settings.ini but no DynDOLOD.ini as such. Even a full search of the PC doesn't turn it up. Do I need to create the file then add the value or is it generated some other way?


Edited by Sundder, 27 October 2016 - 11:08 AM.

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#45 sheson

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Posted 27 October 2016 - 11:18 AM

Hi Sheson, I've upgraded to 2.20 and would like to do a run with both Temporary=0 and Temporary=1 but can't find a DynDOLOD.ini. I've found a bunch of ini's in DynDOLOD 2-20\Edit Scripts\DynDOLOD and there's c:\users\[username]\AppData\Local\Skyrim\DynDOLOD_settings.ini but no DynDOLOD.ini as such. Even a full search of the PC doesn't turn it up. Do I need to create the file then add the value or is it generated some other way?

This is the correct filename: ..\DynDOLOD\Edit Scripts\DynDOLOD\DynDOLOD_TES5.ini

The gamemode gets added to it.


Edited by sheson, 27 October 2016 - 11:20 AM.

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