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Relighting Skyrim (by NovakDalton and JawZ)

skyrim mod lighting fix

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#181 TechAngel85

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Posted 14 January 2016 - 05:57 PM

I love this idea and you know I love RS, ELE, and the rest of your creations!

First, I wouldn't mind helping you out with this work. I've been thinking about doing my own player home, but this is a project that would benefit the greater community more than yet another house mod. If you need the help, sign me up!

Second, you're going to need a place for development and Nexus is no place for group projects. You're ideas fall in line with STEP's so I would like to extend an offer to you for using STEP for you dev. We can create you a forum for all the project needs and communication, as we have for other mod authors. The wiki can also be used if needed by using your own userspace for the project. I haven't ran this by the other admin, but I see no issues.

#182 Kesta

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Posted 14 January 2016 - 06:02 PM

Also, if you're willing to set up a team, you should have a look at how to set up version control on the CK. Those links should help :
https://www.creation...Version_control
https://www.darkcrea...ersion-control/

Basically : You have one master file, and every modder in the team provide its change via plugins, which are then merged by the CK into the master file. This is how beth's guys managed to create the game.
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#183 JawZ

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 12:53 AM

As I mentioned in an earlier post that will happen once the final version is out, not during development. Talking about DLC splitting.

I'm going to reply more extensively l├ąter arter work, using my Microsoft phone nw

Edited by JawZ, 15 January 2016 - 12:56 AM.

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#184 Aiyen

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 04:52 AM

Sounds like a valuable and neat set of tools, and I do like the overall idea. ELE have since its original been one of the most required interior mods around. Yes you lost a bit of diversity, but you gained so much more. And after my experiments in blackreach, I am sure one could add in a bit more diversity to image spaces etc, and still make sure that ENB presets would be largely supported. I always felt sad that RS never got around as much as the other lighting mods, and it would make me happy to help make sure it finally got to a finished state. 

 

Also on the topic of legendary, then I would say that is all that is required. If people still have not bought the legendary version on a 75% sale by now then they should not expect to be able to get all of the goodies that the modding community can offer. 

 

Looking forward to seeing what you got planned in more detail to see where I can (hopefully) be useful. 


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#185 Kesta

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 05:07 AM

On the topic of lengendary -> There is nothing new introduced in term of lighting by the DLCs (well, there is new imagespace and lights, but those can be copied).

So it is only down to the cells edits. Whoever have a bit of know-how in xEdit can split the legendary mod in per-DLC versions (I'm fairly sure we can actually script that with deep copy so it's just one click after each update of the core mod). In short, there is close to no-reasons to not provide them.


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#186 TechAngel85

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 11:19 AM

I agree that separate versions are no longer needed when the legendary version can be bought for $10 most of the time on sale. Also the community is slowly moving to legendary-only. Unofficial patch team, STEP, most the well-known mod authors, etc. It cuts out a lot of extra work.

But in the flip side, as Kesta pointed out, if it's easy to provide them, then they're really is no reason not to.

#187 JawZ

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 11:27 AM

TechAngel85

Ok glad to have you on board Tech :)

 

Yes, the only thing that is neat with nexus is the multiple author/editors per mod feature. The rest is, yeah the rest.

What really is needed is just a good place for developers to communicate their advancments on the mod, "today I covered this and that - from mr.X". And then of course the general development plan, which I will create this weekend, which should be hosted in a good place. A chat/forum restricted to mod developers only, to reduce amount of user comments with no relation to the development stages done to the mod.

 

 

Kesta

Thanks for reminding me of that feature, spotted it once in the past when I was going into another mod team, which "crashed" immediately more or less.

Imagespaces, lighting Templates are redundant as are Light Bulbs additions. RS will be using it's own newly created light bulbs and replace all light bulbs in the interior with those, it will be in the plan how and why that is.

 

 

Aiyen

It's proven veru useful for testing out various combos while inside the Creation Kit. I've been meaning to add that back in, I just made the simple version first to get it out there and in a fully functional way. Yes I won't focus on anything other than Legendary version of RS from now on, but when it is finalized there will be time to do multiple options.

 


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#188 Aiyen

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 11:47 AM

One question jawz. Do you intend to include light shafts as "fixes"? or do you think those to cosmetic ? 

 

In my opinion then that particular light source is just not used enough even though there are many locations where the directional light bulbs would be the superior option. Ofc. since (as I recall) they are shadow casters by default then their use has to be very limited, and they tend to conflict with quite a few layouts. 

 

Anyways, before I digress I just want to know about if you already have a plan for how far "fixes" are going to be a thing. 

 

Overall for a project this size I would think it would be paramount to get every single location marked down with a status to it, then have it so that people can edit that status as they finish up a location. Also add a flag for "need input" so that JawZ can take a look and take a sort of administrative decision. I do not know if either the wiki or this forum can support that in a meaninful way. The only way I can think of of the top my of head is a series of threads for each area with all sub locations inside of it. 


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#189 Nebulous112

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 12:11 PM

I know you guys want to keep it on here, but you can always go the GitHub route. It seems to work well with fairly complex projects.
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#190 EssArrBee

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 09:58 PM

DOn't use Github for mods. It's just a pain in the butt. Version control only works correctly for the coding projects. Trust me, using the github for the STEP Patches was dumb. Try using something like Copy or Dropbox. Use a public folder and give access to a few people. Make a different sub-folder for each version and date it, that way everyone knows which is the latest version.


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#191 TechAngel85

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 10:36 PM

Yes, Copy would be great for hosting project files. It's what we do here at STEP. Any time you see us mention the "Copy Share", that's what we're referring to.

I can set up a private forum with a thread(s) and only allow specific users to see it. That's no problem. We have that very same thing set up for GamerPoets. The wiki can also handle what Aiyen is suggesting. I can even set up a few templates to make things easier and uniform. With a simple, {{complete}} or {{needs attention}}, a custom icon, quote, or both can be displayed next to a mod. The wiki can also do sub-pages with breadcrumb links for any location that needs more attention or explanation.



#192 JawZ

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Posted 16 January 2016 - 09:55 AM

After closer examining of Version Control I don't see that approach being necessary, too messy to setup just to merge something. Besides no one will work on the same content, all developers will be working on unique locations, unless additions, removals or corrections are needed.

I already have a Dropbox account that I hardly ever use, I have Mediafire for personal online storage. I can "convert" that into the RS teams file repository.

 

 

Aiyen

No FX effects are going to be changed as well, but the main focus should be on fixing light bulbs. As I mentioned in the initial modder request post there will be fake shadow and light effects added into the game.

 

I don't know how many times I wished for a none shadowed Spotlight Light Bulb option, one could create some very nice light atmosphere with that.

The produce more problems though then what they are worth, in almost all cases. The main problem is the need to extend the radius by a lot more than a Omni-directional or Hemispherical Light Bulb which causes more mesh surfaces to be affected, which is bad in the long run.

 

A more detailed plan will be made available soon, which will have all the info on how much or little I have initially planned to do. Along with good before and after examples.

 

That's why a forum/chat restricted to the developers only, is a necessary thing. Having just development posts from any and all developers in one thread, where they post updates on their assigned section coverage.

Multiple forums per location is not necessary I think. Just a forum thread for development notes, like for instance this;

Assigned Locations: Markarth
Current Status: 3/22 completed

Individual Status; (For interiors that haven't had all features added yet)
MarkarthAbandonedHouse: Light bulbs covered, Shadow Fixes implemented, Light source Off meshes added.

Personal Notes;
Issues, need confirmation notes, etc, etc.

Going to supply "standard forms" like the one above so just a copy paste can be done and then the developer adds the necessary info he/she has done.

 

 

TechAngel85

That sounds great Tech.


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#193 JawZ

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Posted 17 January 2016 - 07:05 AM

I'm not sure if I can finish the "dev kit" today. But I am working on it.

 

Here is a simple demo of the influence ELFX current mesh splitting has on an entirely vanilla state interior cell, RiverwoodAlrvorsHouse to be exact.

 

Vanilla meshes;

DWJBDRk.jpg

 

ELFX meshes;

nK7wfkr.jpg

 

 

There is a significant improvment to be had. Espescially in one mesh surface interior cells like the WindhelmTempleofTalos or DLC2TelMithryn. Those two areas really do need mesh splitting to make some decent light bulb setup to be possible.

 

 

EDIT Off-Topic;

Now I'm just pissed off, here I've wanted a spotlight without shadows since I began editing lights back when the CK first came out. And it turns out Bethesda had such a feature either planned, added but decided to not go with it.

Just saw one of the markers named "marker_spotlightnoshadow.nif".


Edited by JawZ, 17 January 2016 - 09:30 AM.

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#194 TechAngel85

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Posted 17 January 2016 - 01:09 PM

I've noticed that is an issue in the small farmhouses when I was working on Jaggarsfeld. You have to be really careful or you'll have too much very quickly. I never fully fixed it in Jaggarsfeld.

 

Haha! If it's not finished, then I bet we can find someone to finish that marker up. SparrowPrince is on a break, but is an ace working with NIFs.



#195 JawZ

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Posted 17 January 2016 - 01:18 PM

The smaler interior, most of the time, the less possible amount of light bulbs are able to fit in an interior. That's why splitting vanilla meshes up into smaller sections helps. Though they are visually still one piece but with seperation between each mesh triangle or whatever.

 

It's not the nif, it was the potential of actually having a none shadow spotlight light bulb that I got a bit pissed off about. They had the work, I reckon, but did not implement it in the relased version of the game.

It can't be added unless Bethesda chooses to release a new version with that feature added to it. Source code alterations needed. And that is never going to happen.


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