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Black Circles, z-fighting and texture shimmering


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#331 Exalerion

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Posted 23 October 2015 - 08:20 AM

Skyrim.ini

[Display]

fNearDistance=25.0000

 

SkyrimPrefs.ini
[TerrainManager]
fTreeLoadDistance=150000.0000
fBlockMaximumDistance=1000000.0000
fBlockLevel1Distance=280000.0000
fBlockLevel0Distance=140000.0000
fSplitDistanceMult=10.0000
 
For me these settings solve the Z-Fighting issue pretty much, it's still not noiseless but none of Skyrim's distant terrain will ever be noiseless..
fNearDistance does most of the work though. When I lower it the Z-Fighting gets more noticeable again. I just cranked the TerrainManager settings up even more for better looking mountains.
But also the number and size of your texturemods causes more Z-Fighting. When playing Vanilla Skyrim, I don't see any Z-Fighting.

Edited by Exalerion, 23 October 2015 - 08:20 AM.

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#332 Hackfield

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Posted 26 October 2015 - 07:31 PM

Well I don't know if this belongs to here, but, I'm experiencing some weird texture fighting/flickering/distortion in some terrain textures, in one specifically. I did try some landscapes mods, but I've uninstalled all of them, the only ones that remains are the ones it didn't gave me problems before (terrain bump, ruffled feather, no stretching, realistic water two and dyndolod) but the problem persist. And I've noticed this doesn't happen when I turn off the ENB, so my suspect is either some ENB configuration or maybe a bad parallax mesh/texture that remains in my data folder, but I've checked and I couldn't find anything. It is always this same texture, but I don't have this texture in my data folder, the only landscapes textures are the normal maps of terrain bump.

 

Here are some examples:

 

Normal vanilla texture

https://i61.tinypic.com/ir1ibp.jpg

 

Distortion

https://oi58.tinypic.com/xdi6pj.jpg

https://oi60.tinypic.com/2zz3qtc.jpg

https://oi59.tinypic.com/2mjwcy.jpg

 

 

Did anyone got this problem? Or anyone know what can be the cause of it?

 

Thank you in advance


Edited by Hackfield, 26 October 2015 - 07:35 PM.

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#333 Matt714

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Posted 26 October 2015 - 08:19 PM

I've read at some places that Windows 7 could be the culprit, with XP/Vista users not experiencing z-fighting at all.


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#334 torminater

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Posted 05 January 2016 - 11:25 AM

torminator, have you given up on this?

 

I've been going crazy doing some testing with ini values all week with not much luck. I can reduce the z-fighting some, but not a whole lot.

 

Anyways, with the original fix, why did you settle on 4.0 for the fSplitMultDistance tweak? If you happen to remember, I'm curious. I've taken it up much higher than that (12.0) in testing and never noticed a performance issue or any real difference, but that was testing the value alone without tweaking any other settings.

 

I had z-fighting before, but recently it's become a monster. The fight still continues.

 

Edit: disregard

Just tested fSplitMultDistance=12.0 with fNearDistance=18.0... fps starts dropping even on a purely vanilla game.

Hey ToggleAI, as far as I can remember I had close to no z-fighting in the early patch versions of the game. Some stabilizing/performance tweak Bethesda included in their patches might have come with a reduction of z-buffer capacity for certain systems that actually caused z-fighting to become worse. Or it could be engine-defined.

Of course, the nicer your game looks, the more negative impact z-fighting will have on the picture.

I settled with 4.0 for the original fix, because it was stable, had the best benefit per cost ratio and didn't seem too far from vanilla game settings.

Using a lot higher settings didn't make z-fighting better for me, it was the happy medium that made it a tiny bit nicer.

 

 

I'm having a similar issue, but in Fallout 3. Is it also z-fighting? It didn't happen on my 660GTX (I now have a GTX 980 - SLI disabled because FO3 doesn't play nice with it) 

 

 

Managed to make it disappear totally with "fNearDistance=15"

 

However that makes the first person weapon clip, no matter what fov chosen.  pinch.gif

 

"fNearDistance=12" does make it disappear to some extent, but not completely.  

 

 

 

Hey Matt714, that what you see there might actually be z-fighting or mesh clipping. A mesh fix is usually needed to
remove that form of z-fighting. Have a look whether some overhauls include mesh fixes. Usually the unofficial patches or similar projects include them. If you know how to use nifscope etc. you might be able to do the tweak on your own. Just increase the z-buffer-discrepancy between the clipping planes and you should be fine.

fNearDistance tweaks always come at a cost of clipping. For this specific issue (if it's just those two examples and not everywhere in the game), mesh fixes are the preferrable solution.

 

 

Skyrim.ini

[Display]

fNearDistance=25.0000

 

SkyrimPrefs.ini
[TerrainManager]
fTreeLoadDistance=150000.0000
fBlockMaximumDistance=1000000.0000
fBlockLevel1Distance=280000.0000
fBlockLevel0Distance=140000.0000
fSplitDistanceMult=10.0000
 
For me these settings solve the Z-Fighting issue pretty much, it's still not noiseless but none of Skyrim's distant terrain will ever be noiseless..
fNearDistance does most of the work though. When I lower it the Z-Fighting gets more noticeable again. I just cranked the TerrainManager settings up even more for better looking mountains.
But also the number and size of your texturemods causes more Z-Fighting. When playing Vanilla Skyrim, I don't see any Z-Fighting.

 

Hey Exalerion,

that is very interesting. You use a very high SplitDistanceMult-value. You probably have a powerful machine, that you don't notice a performance drop on your modded game using it. Are you sure, that there is no z-fighting for you if you use vanilla Skyrim ultra generated settings?

 

Well I don't know if this belongs to here, but, I'm experiencing some weird texture fighting/flickering/distortion in some terrain textures, in one specifically. I did try some landscapes mods, but I've uninstalled all of them, the only ones that remains are the ones it didn't gave me problems before (terrain bump, ruffled feather, no stretching, realistic water two and dyndolod) but the problem persist. And I've noticed this doesn't happen when I turn off the ENB, so my suspect is either some ENB configuration or maybe a bad parallax mesh/texture that remains in my data folder, but I've checked and I couldn't find anything. It is always this same texture, but I don't have this texture in my data folder, the only landscapes textures are the normal maps of terrain bump.

 

Here are some examples:

 

Normal vanilla texture

https://i61.tinypic.com/ir1ibp.jpg

 

Distortion

https://oi58.tinypic.com/xdi6pj.jpg

https://oi60.tinypic.com/2zz3qtc.jpg

https://oi59.tinypic.com/2mjwcy.jpg

 

 

Did anyone got this problem? Or anyone know what can be the cause of it?

 

Thank you in advance

Hey Hackfield,

this looks like you either are using a parallax normal without parallax or it is some clipping of planes due to bad meshes. For the latter check my response to Matt714 at the beginning of my post.

 

I've read at some places that Windows 7 could be the culprit, with XP/Vista users not experiencing z-fighting at all.

Hey Matt714,

interesting, have you checked on it, whether that is actually the case? I don't own neither XP nor Vista, so I can't check for myself.


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#335 Mebantiza

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Posted 04 February 2016 - 11:10 PM

I came up with this

 

 

[TerrainManager]
fTreeLoadDistance = 75000
fBlockMaximumDistance = 95000.0000 **
fBlockLevel1Distance = 140000.0000
fBlockLevel0Distance = 75000.0000
fSplitDistanceMult = 5.0
bShowLODInEditor = 0

 

** Fblockmaxdistance seems to solely govern the z-fighting problem. At lower values, z-flghts went away, but LOD and detail suffered greatly in the 50-75k range.

@75k- No z-fighting but poor LOD detail

@100K slight z-fighting occurs, but tolerable. Good LOD detail. Some distant mountaintops low-res. Most high rez.

@110K z-fighting begins to return in a noticeable way w/o really effecting LOD detail in any real way.

 

 

Then I added Ex's

[Display]

fNearDistance=25.0000

 

 

I pushed the distance out to 120k-flickering still present.

 

Fneardistance=20 Did not seem to have any noticeable effect suppressing z-fighting@ 100k Fblockmaxdistance. Nor did fneardistance=25 seem to have much effect either way.

 

 

The final 'fix, was Fblockmaxdistance=95000. This seems to be to be sweet spot. From skyborn altar(clear sunny day), I can see all the way to solitude with decent detail and the z-fighting largely disappears. At 100k, flickering begins to return in a noticeable way.   Distant mountain ranges will be low res@95000.000, but flickering(for me anyhow) dropped off dramatically at 95

I could possibly push it out in 1k increments to tune it even further.

 

 

Hope this is of some help to someone.


Edited by Mebantiza, 05 February 2016 - 01:59 PM.

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#336 TechAngel85

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Posted 04 February 2016 - 11:54 PM

I bet DoubleYou would be interested in this information.



#337 DoubleYou

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Posted 07 February 2016 - 04:31 AM

I'll look into it.

#338 DoubleYou

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Posted 08 February 2016 - 03:04 AM

I tend to agree that 95000 is a good value for fBlockMaximumDistance after some testing. DynDoLOD makes it dead easy to test these settings. What this does is make it so that the distant mountain most prone to the flickering will not get that extra layer of detail that makes the z-fighting readily apparent. While a little bit of Z-fighting still appears if you look for it, it is largely gone.

Lowering it from 95000 doesn't really improve upon it, and increasing it allows more Z-fighting to come into view. Adjusting fSplitDistanceMult noticeably affects the Z-fighting, but there doesn't seem to be any sweet value for it, except that you shouldn't put it too high, or you will get some nasty stutter. Same can be said of all these settings. You can set all of them to 95000, but that seems to be prone to stutter.

These settings seem to be working ok for me:



I5-4690K @4.3GHZ
AMD R9 380X 4GB
16GB RAM
Samsung 850 EVO (500 GB)

#339 Mebantiza

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 04:19 AM

Further Testing Found these values to be viable as well.

 

fTreeLoadDistance = 75000
fBlockMaximumDistance = 97000.0000
fBlockLevel1Distance = 100000.0000
fBlockLevel0Distance = 75000.0000
fSplitDistanceMult = 2.5
 
Phinix ENB
ATI 7880 2GB
8GB DDR3-2400
Dyndolod-Medium

Edited by Mebantiza, 09 February 2016 - 04:24 AM.

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#340 Aegison

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Posted 08 March 2016 - 09:12 PM

I tend to agree that 95000 is a good value for fBlockMaximumDistance after some testing. DynDoLOD makes it dead easy to test these settings. What this does is make it so that the distant mountain most prone to the flickering will not get that extra layer of detail that makes the z-fighting readily apparent. While a little bit of Z-fighting still appears if you look for it, it is largely gone.

Lowering it from 95000 doesn't really improve upon it, and increasing it allows more Z-fighting to come into view. Adjusting fSplitDistanceMult noticeably affects the Z-fighting, but there doesn't seem to be any sweet value for it, except that you shouldn't put it too high, or you will get some nasty stutter. Same can be said of all these settings. You can set all of them to 95000, but that seems to be prone to stutter.

These settings seem to be working ok for me:



I5-4690K @4.3GHZ
AMD R9 380X 4GB
16GB RAM
Samsung 850 EVO (500 GB)

 

I tried these settings and it helped my z-fighting a bit but then I started getting infinite load screens in cities.  I was unable to load into Riften but as soon as I reverted to Skyrim Project INI High settings I could load no problem.


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#341 DoubleYou

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Posted 09 March 2016 - 09:39 AM

Do you not have the Sheson memory patch enabled? I've been using it for quite a while now without issue.



#342 Aegison

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Posted 09 March 2016 - 04:36 PM

Do you not have the Sheson memory patch enabled? I've been using it for quite a while now without issue.

I do. With the latest binaries. I never tried his new threads settings because if I only change the view distance settings I can load no problem.
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#343 DoubleYou

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Posted 09 March 2016 - 07:41 PM

Sorry, but you sound like you're talking about ENBoost, which is not what I was referring to. I was talking about the CTD and ILS fix as described here: https://forum.step-p...-memory-issues/



#344 Aegison

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Posted 10 March 2016 - 02:25 AM

Sorry, but you sound like you're talking about ENBoost, which is not what I was referring to. I was talking about the CTD and ILS fix as described here: https://forum.step-p...-memory-issues/

My bad!  I mixed up the two.  I do have my skse set up as suggested in that post and have used memory log to test it.


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#345 DoubleYou

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Posted 10 March 2016 - 09:20 AM

Do you get any ILS now with the settings? You can simply make fBlockMaximumDistance=95000 and leave the other settings the same and it would probably work.




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