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Black Circles, z-fighting and texture shimmering


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#61 stoppingby4now

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 11:51 AM

The 300 drivers support all cards, it just adds direct support for the 600 series. I have a 580, and I definitely notice smoother gameplay and increased FPS (release notes say it should be around 20%, and so far I'm seeing it).
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#62 Vond

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 12:32 PM

how do I use the .inf file? i never installed any drivers that didn't come from the manufacturer's homepage...



Download the .inf file from here: https://www.mediafir...zz6s1pwf2lssnlc (or just copy it from C:\NVIDIA\DisplayDriver\301.24\WinVista_Win7_64\English\Display.Driver\nv_disp.inf as the .24 inf works for .25. Then drop that .inf into ...\Display.Driver\ for .25 and run the setup, it will now detect your card.

Apparently the 301.32 beta is actually older than 301.25 (.32 = r300_00-124, .25 = r301_07-14), and are developer drivers. 301.25 runs Skyrim a lot better, so can ignore the .32 beta I'd say.
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#63 Vond

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 07:55 PM

Using 301.25 and the fSplitDistanceMult=2.5000and fSkycellRefFadeDistance=300000.0000 (thanks for those tips) seems to have removed the flickering mountains for me. Atleast it wasn't nearly as noticeable as before. Still have some other shadows flickering, and ofcourse the annoying grass-shadows that we can't do anything about, but it was a clear improvement.
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#64 torminater

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 09:51 AM

Well, congratulations ;-D I'm actually checking out the shadow-problem, too. whether I find anything interesting or not will show next week. This weekend Im too busy otherwise.
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#65 torminater

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 08:00 AM

Z-Fighting-Elimination-Crusade

What I will try to do is the following:Z-fighting became a far greater nuisance with the beta-patch for me. Don't ask me why, but that's the way it is...
This is how I will try to get rid of z-fighting without loss of graphic quality (if possible):
Setting:
- Skyrim 1.5.26.05
- Launcher by SKSE
- near Helgen (Screenshot )
- daytime: afternoon 2 pm.
- viewing the mountain range behind the lake (strongest z-fighting for me EVER)
Nvidia-Drivers:
- Download the 5 latest drivers for my graphics-card: incl. latest beta, the 4 newest WHQL-certified versions: 280.26, 285.62, 295.73, 296.10, 301.24.
- Check where there is the least z-fighting.
- Not used: 3D, SLI, Nvidia-tweaks, HD-DLC, Mods, ini-tweaks and on Ultra-Settings only.
Ok, currently I'm looking at the inofficial beta-driver 301.25!
I do like the 301.25 drivers. they give me extra FPS and i think a little bit less vram stuttering (although that's probably just my imagination xD)
Also I compared the videos of all the driver versions so i've tested so far and that's my ranking from best to worst z-fighting:
295.73
296.10
301.25
285.62
301.24
280.26
There are big differences between the first 3 and the last 2, but at the top there is only a very slight difference to be seen. If I had an acceptable internet connection I would upload all the vids in ultra-hi-res but 100 kbit/s won't do the trick. Also this is my own rig with it's own pros and cons and it is only my perception that leads me towards my conclusions. If you want the best set-up for your skyrim do the testing yourselves and decide which driver you like more. Also z-fighting ingame always looks worse as if you look at it on a video. and that's not only subjectivity.
I'm going to keep to the 301.25 driver cuz it grants me 3-5 FPS in almost every location more and the z-fighting is nearly weak as with 295.73.
NVidia-CP:
- SLI activation: +/-?
- 3D activation (hiding effects): +/-
- Not used: Nvidia-tweaks, HD-DLC, Mods, ini-tweaks and on Ultra-Settings only.
SLI activation has no negative effect on z-fighting. I think if there's any change at all then it makes it better.
3D activation and hiding 3d-effects has a minor negative effect on z-fighting. until the SLI-Water-Bug gets fixed 3D-activation will be more a have-to than a must-have...
Coming up:
Nvidia Inspector:
- try out all different tweaks using if possible the skyrim profiles
- every positive effect will be noted by it self
- all positive effects will be tried out together and adjusted to create the best effect.
- Not used: HD-DLC, Mods, ini-tweaks and on Ultra-Settings only.
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#66 MadWizard25

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 09:46 AM

Firstly id like to say great job! You really sunk your teeth into this problem :P If you manage to work it out many interwebs props to you! Well i mentioned i would help, but got sidetracked RL stuff. Back on track now! Ok, ive got no difference with LOD z-fighting with the 301.24/25 beta drivers, as well as the 296.10. Its still horrendous, and just as bad as when skyrim was released where it was vanilla with no mods and i was using a radeon hd 5770 card with 11.1 to 12.3 drivers. Exact same problem with a geforce 560 ti. Will try the ini tweaks next and will let you know.
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#67 torminater

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 10:40 AM

Nvidia Inspector:- try out all different tweaks using if possible the skyrim profiles- every positive effect will be noted by it self- all positive effects will be tried out together and adjusted to create the best effect.
- Not used: HD-DLC, Mods, ini-tweaks and on Ultra-Settings only.

NOT confirmed yet:anti-aliasing gamma correction and line gamma tweaks may lead to worse z-fighting. maybe there is a config that helps? anybody inclined to try it out?
as long as nothing mindboggling is revealed about those settings I'll continue with the standard procedure.
Nvidia Inspector Anti-Aliasing configuration (except gamma)
Testing mode: Override any application setting
Setting: 4x4 Multisampling -> no setting has improved or worsened z-fighting, this has been my setting before testing, and will if nothing changes stay as it is.
Transparency Multisampling: Disabled -> did not help, TrSSAA instead
Transparency Supersampling: 4x4 -> FPS-Drop from no supersampling at least 15-20 FPS but it does look gorgeous!!! (and may help ignoring that stupid z-fighting on mountains ;-D)
NVidia FXAA: Disabled -> afaik it's still a WIP so I won't recommend it. it did not help noticeably. and the lighter structures "lighten" the darker ones in the background which looks odd and bad at the same time...
Coming up:
Texture filtering optimization
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#68 torminater

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 07:13 AM

Hey guys!
Does anyone of you know how to work with the info and tips given in this article ?

I don't, but maybe some 3rd-party tools could be used to make the z-buffer more precise or sth like that. Maybe you know of somebody who is a crack in 3d-graphics?
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#69 torminater

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 01:59 PM

So here's an update on my work
Nvidia Inspector:

- try out all different tweaks using if possible the skyrim profiles

- every positive effect will be noted by it self

- all positive effects will be tried out together and adjusted to create the best effect.

- Not used: HD-DLC, Mods, ini-tweaks and on Ultra-Settings only.



No setting in the Nvidia Inspector managed to reduce z-fighting at all.
My current settings are:
Posted Image
Min FPS 57.


Coming up:

Skyrim Graphic Profiles:

- try out, whether Low-, Medium-, High-Setting lets z-fighting vanish or
become close to invisible; if not good enough ULTRA will be used to
continue

- best profile will be used to continue
 
Skyrim Graphic Profiles:



- try out, whether Low-, Medium-, High-Setting lets z-fighting vanish or

become close to invisible; if not good enough ULTRA will be used to

continue



- best profile will be used to continue

So, here're my results so far:

No need to scale down to medium or low-quality. High-settings lets almost all of the z-fighting disappear ... at the cost of really fugly distant mountains. There is some z-fighting on mid-distant mountains nevertheless. The problem is the setting "Distant Object Detail". If set to high, distant mountains look really bad. If set to Ultra ... well z-fighting is really bad. I'm now going to work myself from High-Settings up to Ultra-settings concerning really nice mountains but evading the z-fighting part...

So, what the Distant Object Detail setting alters is this:
High Distant Object Detail settings


Ultra Distant Object Detail settings

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#70 torminater

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 02:33 PM

Oh my god... Ladies and gentlemen there ain't no freaking z-fighting anymore in my skyrim... xD I want some feedback on this fix from everyone. Go to your skyrimprefs.ini and edit the TerrainManager section until it looks like this: [TerrainManager] fTreeLoadDistance=75000.0000 fBlockMaximumDistance=500000.0000 fBlockLevel1Distance=140000.0000 fBlockLevel0Distance=75000.0000 fSplitDistanceMult=4.0000 bShowLODInEditor=0 IMPORTANT NOTE: I had a typo in my fix here before Gophers Video on Z-fighting. The value fBlockLevel1Distance was set to 1400000.0000. This actually should be 140000.0000 so divided by 10. Apparently it works both ways, but if you consider it being too big of a FPS-hit with the 1,400,000.0000 try out using fBlockLevel1Distance=140000.0000 instead. Sorry for that. then head to the Main section and edit:fSkyCellRefFadeDistance=500000.0000 then save and exit. go to your ini now set your ugridstoload to 7 and cellbuffer to 64 and now ... play skyrim.
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#71 Bealdwine

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 03:25 PM

@torm I made those changes and tested outside Whiterun, as you said, no noticable z-fighting, grats :) However it does cost me around 3-4 fps although this may simply be down to setting my ugrids back up to 7. As yet I haven't had time to do a visual before and after test to check on any other changes this might bring in, but as far as the distant to mid range mountain flickering, it certainly seems to help. I know that the actual z-fighting can't be shown through still screen shots, but if someone gets the chance a good long distance mountain screenie from pre and post adjustment would settle my mind as to whether I was noticing any differences.
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#72 torminater

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 03:32 PM

I can give you exactly that if you wait another couple of days ^^
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#73 stoppingby4now

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 03:42 PM

I just tried these settings. The z-fighting was signifcantly reduced, but it's still there for me. Step in the right direction I suppose. torminater, can you include your ini files here so I can compare them to mine.
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#74 torminater

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 03:48 PM

skyrim ini


skyrimprefs ini


Atm I'm using uGridsToLoad 9. just for fun. Always wanted to try it out. I'm still around 40 FPS but it feels a bit laggy in big open places like on the way to whiterun ... whatever.
 
@bealdwine:
got the movie ready for upload. on monday it'll be on youtube! It is REALLY impressive what difference it makes!
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#75 Bealdwine

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 04:59 PM

@bealdwine:got the movie ready for upload. on monday it'll be on youtube! It is REALLY impressive what difference it makes!


I'll be very interested to see that torm, unfortunately I may not be able to use these settings permanently (until I can upgrade my rig) as my old 1Gb 8800 GT can't afford to leak anymore fps, unlike your 570 SLi setup ;) But it will be very useful to others I'm sure, and I was happy to test it out :)
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