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xLODGen - Terrain LOD beta for FNV, FO3, FO4, FO4VR, TES5, SSE, TES5VR


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#241 sheson

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Posted 04 July 2018 - 09:50 AM

OK, let me make sure we're not confusing issues here too. NV's water LOD is broken in vanilla and a separate issue from what I posted above which is Fallout 3's wasteland worldspace. The Fallout 3 worldspace is where the cells have individual water height which differs from the default height in the worldspace record.


There is no problem with water height. If cell water is defined it is used. Otherwise the worldspace LOD water height is used with fallback to water height.

I find that in FNV some worlds only have sky reflections and some reflect terrain and objects.

There is a difference in the terrain LOD nifs that changes the LOD water reflections to match the reflection of the loaded cell water. The two types of worldspaces need their correct types of terrain LOD nifs. Using the wrong type results in visual problems like the one you posted.

Based on the terrain NIFs, these worldspace only have sky reflections:
dlc01steelmillexterior
dlc02anchoragebattle
dlc02glacier
dlc02overlook
nvdlc02zioncanyon
nvdlc04divideworld
nvdlc04nukelegion
washmontop
wastelandnv

These worldspaces have decent reflections. I find they are more consistent and without the glaring bugs/omissions like Skyrim, Skryim SE or Fallout4:
dcworld09
dlc01pittworld
dlc4pointlookout
thestripworldnew
wasteland

Any other worldspaces not listed does not seem to have LOD water.

I would have assumed this is controlled by a worldspace setting or a the default image space reference, but I haven't figured yet how he game decides.

In any case, for now I can automatically control xLODGen terrain LOD output with the LOD options files.

Edited by sheson, 04 July 2018 - 09:51 AM.

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#242 RoyBatty

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 04:43 AM

Cool, I look forward to having good LOD in all worldspaces, and working LOD which is more optimized in DC. The generated LOD improves performance quite a bit. I noticed that the vanilla nifs for some reason cut around the land in the water and what not which seems like it would be less optimal than the simple squares in your generated LOD.

 

If you figure out how or what setting in the GECK/CKIT controls the LOD please let me know, I can't seem to find any setting for this other than in placeable water records.


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#243 sheson

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 08:55 AM

Cool, I look forward to having good LOD in all worldspaces, and working LOD which is more optimized in DC. The generated LOD improves performance quite a bit. I noticed that the vanilla nifs for some reason cut around the land in the water and what not which seems like it would be less optimal than the simple squares in your generated LOD.
 
If you figure out how or what setting in the GECK/CKIT controls the LOD please let me know, I can't seem to find any setting for this other than in placeable water records.


I think I figured it out. Cell water that uses the worldspace height (default or same value) reflects objects and water that has a different height does not. I will update LOD generation to properly use the correct type in the terrain NIF depending on its height compared to the worldspace height. So LOD water should always work the same as the cell water in every worldspace without additional settings.
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#244 sheson

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 10:33 AM

Cool, I look forward to having good LOD in all worldspaces, and working LOD which is more optimized in DC. The generated LOD improves performance quite a bit. I noticed that the vanilla nifs for some reason cut around the land in the water and what not which seems like it would be less optimal than the simple squares in your generated LOD.
 
If you figure out how or what setting in the GECK/CKIT controls the LOD please let me know, I can't seem to find any setting for this other than in placeable water records.


Get beta 20 from first post. It should have correct LOD water for FO3/FNV. My test cases were the area from your screenshot and the Hoover Dam in WastelandNV, were the lower river has object reflections, but the higher water in the lake does not.

This version should also fix the invalid parameter error you had earlier. So no more need for separate settings file.
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#245 RoyBatty

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 06:44 AM

Thank you, will download and test.


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#246 RoyBatty

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Posted 12 July 2018 - 09:31 AM

Done some more testing today.

 

Weird that water is sometimes showing in cells that it shouldn't, close up, this is the entrance to Anacostia metro just outside Rivet City. https://i.imgur.com/GHtASYb.jpg

 

Also having LOD water now in cells where there should be none. This is in The Mall (DCWorld09) https://i.imgur.com/ZW8J9c0.jpg I have already investigated what is going on here. There is placeable water in the reflecting pool outside the Lincoln Memorial which has the 12270.2891 Z coordinate which corresponds to the LOD water height in the worldspace record, where the default water height is 0 and well below the land level. It appears that LOD water will take placeable water into account, and not generate any water LOD in areas where the default water is below the water LOD height and land is above it.

 

Something else to note about The Mall, which I don't see in any other worldspace (even with vanilla LOD) is that when you are walking from the capitol building towards the Washington monument (or away backwards) the landscape LOD does this strange shifting like the mip maps are animating somehow. This is even more apparent with the new LOD. If you have any idea why that happens only in this world space, I'd love to hear it.


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#247 RoyBatty

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Posted 12 July 2018 - 10:00 AM

Actually never mind the one at Anacostia, this is actually an error in the cell record.


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#248 sheson

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Posted 12 July 2018 - 10:57 AM

Done some more testing today.
 
Weird that water is sometimes showing in cells that it shouldn't, close up, this is the entrance to Anacostia metro just outside Rivet City. https://i.imgur.com/GHtASYb.jpg
 
Also having LOD water now in cells where there should be none. This is in The Mall (DCWorld09) https://i.imgur.com/ZW8J9c0.jpg I have already investigated what is going on here. There is placeable water in the reflecting pool outside the Lincoln Memorial which has the 12270.2891 Z coordinate which corresponds to the LOD water height in the worldspace record, where the default water height is 0 and well below the land level. It appears that LOD water will take placeable water into account, and not generate any water LOD in areas where the default water is below the water LOD height and land is above it.
 
Something else to note about The Mall, which I don't see in any other worldspace (even with vanilla LOD) is that when you are walking from the capitol building towards the Washington monument (or away backwards) the landscape LOD does this strange shifting like the mip maps are animating somehow. This is even more apparent with the new LOD. If you have any idea why that happens only in this world space, I'd love to hear it.


It really never made sense to me that LOD water could have a different default height defined in the WRLD record.

LOD water is generated for every CELL that has the "Has water" flag set and the "No LOD Water"flag not set. LOD water uses the cell water height if it is set and uses the LOD water height from the world record if the CELL defines the "default" water height. So far that seemed like the logical thing to do, but not work this way for all games apparently. It may be overall better to ignore the LOD water height on the WRLD record and use the default water height instead. It seems much more logical for any game/world...

Seem like that is what GECK does.

Edited by sheson, 12 July 2018 - 11:01 AM.

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#249 RoyBatty

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Posted 13 July 2018 - 05:57 AM

Well no, GECK does generate LOD for the placed water, which is same height as the LOD water height. The default water height is 0, and the cells are set to that. So it only generates LOD for water which is at or above the LOD water height, anything below is ignored. This makes perfect sense.

 

Also with the strange effects of mip mapping (what I assume it is), the "small world" flag has no effect which is the only difference I can find there.


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#250 sheson

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Posted 13 July 2018 - 02:14 PM

Well no, GECK does generate LOD for the placed water, which is same height as the LOD water height. The default water height is 0, and the cells are set to that. So it only generates LOD for water which is at or above the LOD water height, anything below is ignored. This makes perfect sense.

 

Also with the strange effects of mip mapping (what I assume it is), the "small world" flag has no effect which is the only difference I can find there.

Why should a cell have cell water but no LOD water at the same height? The result would also be correct in this case. I will check what CK does.

 

I have no idea why textures would do anything different in only one worldspace and not act the same in all of them.


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#251 RoyBatty

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Posted 14 July 2018 - 08:29 AM

Because the cell has placeable water with LOD, and because Bethesda is lazy.


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#252 sheson

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Posted 14 July 2018 - 08:56 AM

Because the cell has placeable water with LOD, and because Bethesda is lazy.



CK and later games does not seem have this feature anymore. Unless the no LOD water flag is set, if there is cell water it always has LOD water. LOD warer either uses the cell waterheight or the default waterheight. It seems the LOD waterheight is ignored.

Do you know of more worldspaces in FO3/FNV that have placeable water with VWD flag set so I have more than one to test the upcoming update for this?

Edited by sheson, 14 July 2018 - 08:57 AM.

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#253 sheson

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Posted 15 July 2018 - 01:03 PM

beta 21 adds the FO3/FNV placed water LOD feature as discussed. DCWorld09 LOD water is now exactly as the vanilla LOD nifs.

I checked WastelandNV and Wasteland that still look OK, too... but it is possible some other FNV/DO3 worldspaces with other odd combinations of water and heights still need work. Just let me know.
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#254 RoyBatty

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Posted 16 July 2018 - 03:20 AM

Very cool. Sorry if I came off wrong, talked to zilav and I just didn't know what I should provide for example.

 

I checked all other worldspaces, some have the default height changed and the LOD height left zero, some change both, but none are the same as DCWorld11 from what I can see.

 

Thank you for your work, it is very much appreciated.

 

I am curious about WastelandNV, so Lake Mead and the Colorado River now have working LOD ?


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#255 sheson

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Posted 16 July 2018 - 05:00 AM

Very cool. Sorry if I came off wrong, talked to zilav and I just didn't know what I should provide for example.
 
I checked all other worldspaces, some have the default height changed and the LOD height left zero, some change both, but none are the same as DCWorld11 from what I can see.
 
Thank you for your work, it is very much appreciated.
 
I am curious about WastelandNV, so Lake Mead and the Colorado River now have working LOD ?


I have yet to find any other world space that uses placed water like this. Just for some more testing and verifying.

The different LOD water types based on height in WastelandNV were already correct with last update. The reflections of the LOD water match the loaded cell water in both cases.
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