DynDOLOD Fresh install - crash on first load

[WDeranged]

I've been trying to install DynDOLOD on a lightly modded install of Skyrim SE and I'm having an issue where most of the time my first load drops to the desktop cold with no message.

 

I've watched all the well known installation guides and done a fair bit of reading so I think I've got the basics down but I'll list my basic steps.

 

Install resources.

Install Indistinguishable Vanilla Tree Billboards.

Run texgen and install textures.

Run DynDOLOD and install output.

 

Whether starting a new game or a clean save four out of five times the game will drop to the desktop with no message.  When it does appear to work everything initialises properly and DynDOLOD works as it should.  I'm just rather wary of continuing to play the game after on an unstable foundation.

 

 

Load Order (master files cleaned)

 

*Unofficial Skyrim Special Edition Patch.esp

*DynDOLOD.esm

*SkyUI_SE.esp

*Gildergreen Regrown.esp

*Cutting Room Floor.esp

*Guard Dialogue Overhaul.esp

*TheChoiceIsYours.esp

*Darkwater Crossing.esp

*Whistling Mine.esp

*Soljund's Sinkhole.esp

*HoldBorderBanners.esp

*BooksBooksBooks.esp

*FloraRespawnFix.esp

*Craftable Torches.esp

*CustomDifficulty.esp

*Hardcore Lockpicking1-12.esp

*Immersive Potions.esp

*MehrunesRazorFivePercentKillChance.esp

*Moved Droppable Stones.esp

*Slightly Reduced Distance NPC Greetings.esp

*VariedGuards.esp

*Weather Tweaks.esp

*HorseSpeedStam.esp

*Delay-DLC.esp

*Modern Brawl Bug Fix.esp

*DynDOLOD.esp

Edited November 23, 2018 by WDeranged

[D1Z4STR]

Aren't .esm's always supposed to be at the top of the load order?

[sheson]

FAQ: Game: ILS or CTD

 

A: More LOD uses more memory and this can cause infinite loading screen (ILS) or crash to desktop (CTD) if the game is not setup correctly. This should generally not be a problem with Skyrim Special Edition or Skyrim VR, but for Skyrim double check heap memory usage (block 1) with Memory Blocks Log from https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/50471/ and adjust SKSE or SSME memory settings. Or use alternative OSAllocator from crash fixes with pre-loader. Remove satefy-load if it is used to verify it doesn't cause CTD. Set ExpandSystemMemoryX64=false in enblocal.ini 

 

A: Do not use the experimental TreeFullFallBack setting without understanding what it does and what it is for. 

 

A: If heap memory is not the cause of CTD see ..DynDOLOD\Docs\DynDOLOD-README.txt for checking if a missing or invalid nif model used for dynamic LOD is the cause. 

 

 

If the debug / log checking explained in the readme does not reveal anything useful, install .NET Script Framework and check its crash log, it might be able to reveal problems with a NIF similar to Crash Fixes for Skyrim.

[Greg]

Aren't .esm's always supposed to be at the top of the load order?

Unofficial Skyrim Special Edition Patch.esp is a false-flagged ESM (meaning the ESM flag is set in the header even though the extension is ESP) so it should be at the top above DynDOLOD.esm.

[WDeranged]

I'll have a look at the .NET Script Framework when I get home but I'm only using vanilla meshes and the only mods I'm using which add new landscape stuff are Arthmoor's which I assume to be safe.

 

I should mention that if I save the game after first initialisation (when it doesn't crash) I can reload the save perfectly every time.  It just disturbs me that I have to try five or six times before DynDOLOD kicks in without issue.

[WDeranged]

Here is a crashdump.  I can't see anything obvious pointing to .nif files.

 

https://pastebin.com/8pADUc8q

Edited November 23, 2018 by WDeranged

[sheson]

Typically, since LOD and DynDOLOD does the same thing every single time when you start a new game or load an existing save that never saw DynDOLOD before, the problem should happen every time or never. We know this from years of experience.

 

You should be able to find steps that 100% reproducible cause the problem.

 

The crash dump doesn't tell us anything useful yet, but it might indicate something going on with memory or havok. I assuming INIs are default, overclocking, memory timings, cooling, drivers etc. are taken care of.

 

It doesn't matter if you are only using vanilla meshes. Some vanilla/CC meshes work fine normally but can cause trouble when used for LOD.

It might not be the problem, but do checks and debugging as explained in the readme regardless. Troubleshooting is about ruling out possible causes.

 

Once that is exhausted, see if doing any of these steps has an affect on the problem. Keep whatever is causing the problem active and remove/hide/disable whatever is not causing the problem - if possible.

 

disabling/hiding just output/textures from output, the result should be missing textures obviously 

disabling/hiding just output/meshes from output, the result should be vanilla object and tree LOD

disable DynDOLOD.esp 

disable DynDOLOD.esm (this step is identical to having disable the entire LOD mod, as the files in the SKSE folder are only used if the plugins are active)

 

If you ended up with a plugin being the cause, then selectively removing references from it until only the problematic references or CELL remain will help us pinpoint the source of the problem. I explained this 50:50 deletion of records before, so you might already know what to do. If not, let me know and I will explain in more detail. It might sound tedious, but methodically disabling/removing everything but what that causes the problem is usually the quickest to actually find the exact cause.

Edited November 23, 2018 by sheson

[WDeranged]

I've reinstalled Skyrim and kept everything completely vanilla but I'm still getting the same issue.  I'll start digging around and double check that my pc is stable.  I'm pretty fastidious about these things and I assumed all was good but I'll double check and report back.

[WDeranged]

I've done some fairly intensive stability testing and everything is fine.  Also upgraded my Nvidia drivers with no change in ctds.  I did follow your instructions and narrowed it down to the .esm file.  I spent about half an hour doing 50/50 record deletions and I can at least confirm that one of the Tamriel_Firstborn references appears to be causing the crash.

 

At some point I might have the patience to find exactly which one is the problem but I'm a bit burnt out for the moment 

 

Completely vanilla install, no mods at all.

[sheson]

I've done some fairly intensive stability testing and everything is fine.  Also upgraded my Nvidia drivers with no change in ctds.  I did follow your instructions and narrowed it down to the .esm file.  I spent about half an hour doing 50/50 record deletions and I can at least confirm that one of the Tamriel_Firstborn references appears to be causing the crash.

 

At some point I might have the patience to find exactly which one is the problem but I'm a bit burnt out for the moment 

 

Completely vanilla install, no mods at all.

There is something odd going if there are Tamriel_Firstborn_X_Y references in DynDOLOD.esm. They should be all in the DynDOLOD.esp. Only some old outdated versions did that back a wihle ago.

 

For the 50:50 removal test, do not remove

in DynDOLOD.esp Tamriel_Sheson_Object, Tamriel_Minion_*, Tamriel_Firstborn_*

in DynDOLOD.esm Tamriel_Worshipper_*

as that will prevent dynamic LOD objects from being switched on/off. The above records are typically fine and do not cause CTD. With them removed *_LOD and *_GLOWLOD records do not activcate, including the one most likely causing problems. You would only remove them (or rather CELLs containing them if nothing else is left)

 

Remove these type of references:

overwrites

*_DynDOLOD_LOD

*_DynDOLOD_GLWOLOD

*_DynDOLOD_TOWN

*_DynDOLOD_MANUAL

*_DynDOLOD_NOLOD

etc.

Edited November 26, 2018 by sheson

[WDeranged]

Whoops.  Sorry.  Mistyped.  I did mean the .esp file 

[WDeranged]

I eventually removed every type of reference you mentioned and I still got the CTD.  The .esp file has only the minion, firstborn and sheson objects left in it.

[sheson]

I eventually removed every type of reference you mentioned and I still got the CTD.  The .esp file has only the minion, firstborn and sheson objects left in it.

What about the overwrites of the base records like Activators (keep the non overwrites DynDOLOD_* and *_FirstbornActivator), Doors, Furniture, Moveable Static, Static, Tree?

 

Then check what happens if you hide all of the papyrus scripts. If that changes something we can check papyrus log (I could provide scripts that print more info to the log)

 

If hiding scrips does not change anything, start removing Cells, then worlds once empty, all those records are copied from other plugins.

 

Keep the Quests until last, but those won't do anything without scripts.

Edited November 27, 2018 by sheson

[WDeranged]

I took a break from Skyrim for a few days but now I'm back.  Removing Activator overwrites, Doors, Furniture, Moveable Static and Static didn't stop the crash but hiding papyrus scripts did.

Edited December 2, 2018 by WDeranged

[sheson]

I took a break from Skyrim for a few days but now I'm back.  Removing Activator overwrites, Doors, Furniture, Moveable Static and Static didn't stop the crash but hiding papyrus scripts did.

Are you certain all references but DynDOLOD.esp Tamriel_Sheson_Object, Tamriel_Minion_*, Tamriel_Firstborn_* are removed? That should only leave the persistent CELL 00000D74, right? Since the problem is in Tamriel and removing all other worldspaces did not change anything.

The remaining references still have their base records? Check the plugin for errors to make sure nothing required by these references was removed.

 

Selective disable scripts one line at a time. Start with 

SHESON_DynDOLOD_LODObject.pex

SHESON_DynDOLOD_Master.pex

SHESON_DynDOLOD_Firstborn.pex

SHESON_DynDOLOD_Quest.pex

SHESON_DynDOLOD_MCM.pex,SHESON_DynDOLOD_Alias.pex

Edited December 2, 2018 by sheson

[WDeranged]

DynDOLOD.esp now only contains non overwritten Activators, Keyword, Quest and the persistent CELL 00000D74.  The cell itself only contains one Tamriel_Sheson_Object and all the Minions and Firstborns.  Checked for errors, none present.

 

Disabling scripts one at a time shows that removing either SHESON_DynDOLOD_Master.pex or SHESON_DynDOLOD_Firstborn.pex stops the crashes.  Leaving just one of these two scripts is fine but it both are present the game will crash.