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83Willows 101BugsHD Butterfly Dragonfly Luna-Moth Torchbug (by 83Willow)

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#1 stoppingby4now

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 11:28 PM

[color=#cccccc;]Discussion thread:[/color]
101 Bugs by 83Willow
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#2 blattgeist

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 07:24 AM

Gravedigging.. sorry. Although the textures of that mod are superb, the alchemy effects are way too strong. Some ingredients have 10x the vanilla value. That's the only thing that's keeping me from using the mod.


Edited by blattgeist, 29 April 2014 - 07:24 AM.

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#3 meidadraz

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 01:06 AM

Gravedigging.. sorry. Although the textures of that mod are superb, the alchemy effects are way too strong. Some ingredients have 10x the vanilla value. That's the only thing that's keeping me from using the mod.

I totally agree. 


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#4 TechAngel85

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 07:57 AM

Gravedigging.. sorry. Although the textures of that mod are superb, the alchemy effects are way too strong. Some ingredients have 10x the vanilla value. That's the only thing that's keeping me from using the mod.

Lets just put it this way... no one is FORCING you to catch the insects added by this mod to use in your alchemy...don't HAVE to catch the insects. If you don't like their effects, don't catch them and use them...seems like a simply solution. :huh:



#5 EssArrBee

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 08:00 AM

Or just go into uncapper.ini and nerf alchemy. Then don't sell all the potions, just throw them off a cliff.



#6 TechAngel85

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 08:32 AM

Actually that post makes no since at all... I just opened this up in TES5edit. None of the ingredients added by this mod are even available in the vanilla game so I'm not sure what you mean by "10x the vanilla value" since there is no vanilla value to compare against... :huh: The only one that comes close is the vanilla Butterfly Wing; however, this mod adds in varying values for the various types of butterfly which is perfectly reasonable. You wouldn't expect different species of butterfly to have the exact same effect. If you don't like the values, open up TES5edit, turn then down and save the ESP.



#7 DoubleYou

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 08:46 AM

I've used the butterflies as ingredients in alchemy, and they don't seem unbalanced to me. Be glad that alchemy is actually rewarding!



#8 Saviorsrd

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Posted 02 September 2015 - 05:21 AM

I'm going to suggest re-testing this one - I recently did a STEP install and, after extensive testing, found this mod was causing CTD problems.  I haven't yet done testing to find out what might be conflicting, but I'll try to get to it in a few days.


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#9 TechAngel85

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Posted 02 September 2015 - 11:34 AM

I have it installed in a pure STEP setup, no CTDs but I'll look into any conflicts. Make sure you have it installed correctly.

#10 kryptopyr

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Posted 02 September 2015 - 01:33 PM

I've never had any CTDs with this mod, but I only used it for a short time due to the unbalanced ingredients.  I see this was discussed above.  I know it's an old coversation, but I really feel that it deserves a response.  Honestly, the suggestions given above to simply ignore this imbalance or use another mod to nerf alchemy or throw the created potions off a cliff seem like pretty poor solutions that aren't really in line with typical STEP standards.

I'm not sure what you mean by "10x the vanilla value" since there is no vanilla value to compare against.

 

I can explain this.  As I'm sure you know, every alchemy ingredient has four effect properties.  Those properties have different magnitude and duration settings depending on the effect.  In the vanilla game these values are pretty much the same for a particular effect no matter what the ingredient is.  So the magnitude and duration of a Fear effect is the same no matter whether it's a property on a Blue Dartwing or a Daedra Heart.  Only rarely do any of the vanilla ingredients differ from these standard values. 

 

The ingredients added by this mod have much higher magnitudes/durations than the vanilla standards.  For example, I think there is a dragonfly that has a Damage Health effect nearly equivalent to Jarrin Root (one of the few non-standard vanilla ingredients, which has a strength 100x the standard Damage Health magnitude).  Many aren't quite that bad, but I'd guess that on average "10x the vanilla value" is probably about right.

 

These insects are alchemy ingredients.  That's their primary function in the game.  It's what they are.  I don't think STEP should ignore their actual purpose in the game simply because they look pretty.  If Book of Silence adjusted all the armor values to 10x their vanilla armor ratings, I can't see STEP recommending that users simply avoid wearing the armor or personally adjust each record back to vanilla values using TES5Edit.  That just doesn't seem in line with my understanding of the STEP mandate.

 

If you want to compare, you can find a list of the vanilla values here:  https://www.uesp.net...Alchemy_Effects

The non-standard vanilla ingredients are also listed on that page.  At least some of those, particularly the ones that only effect the gold value of a potion, are probably bugs.


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#11 Octopuss

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Posted 02 September 2015 - 02:19 PM

How's your alchemy mod coming along, btw?


Edited by Octopuss, 02 September 2015 - 02:19 PM.

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#12 TechAngel85

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Posted 02 September 2015 - 02:28 PM

I would say that you're right and I thought we said this could be fixed with the STEP Patches.

#13 Saviorsrd

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Posted 02 September 2015 - 04:01 PM

One:  Yes, verified it was a correct install.

 

Two:  I just did a stability test using just Live Another Life (for convenience), the Unofficial Patches, ENBoost, and this mod.  While it passed with a 15-minute run, I noticed periodic VRAM spikes on my second monitor that seemed completely out of line (something along the lines of 200-500 MB at a time) while running around Tamriel.  I have a GTX 970 OC, so in essentially Vanilla it's tolerable, but that could explain the CTDs. . . although why on earth it would be an issue on one card and not another, or one setup and not another, is beyond me unless something is trying to do some kind of resource detection and spawn different numbers of "species" based on what's available.  

 

And before you ask, I ran the test without it as well, no spikes.  I also ran with 83 Willows and without the Unofficial Patches, since if that's an incompatibility it would basically be the kiss of death, and that just caused random CTDs.  I include the latter point only for completeness sake, since I'm pretty sure the cause there wasn't the mod.

 

Regardless, based on that I don't think I'll be re-enabling this one on a permanent basis.

 

EDIT:  And I just repeated the test with a twist, running up and down along the length of the western river running between Markarth and Solitude, because the area (I've noticed) tends to have a lot of insects.  Same memory spike, then CTD within a minute of reaching it.  Repeated the test with no mod, smooth as silk and no issue.


Edited by Saviorsrd, 02 September 2015 - 04:18 PM.

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#14 kryptopyr

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Posted 02 September 2015 - 06:05 PM

It's coming along quite well.  :)  Very well, in fact.

https://drive.google...Rk5wMjRwMFY1SkE

https://drive.google...TTEzX3VXX01VQWM

https://drive.google...R0JHWDhkaFdha28


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#15 darkside

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Posted 02 September 2015 - 06:58 PM

It's coming along quite well. :) Very well, in fact.
https://drive.google...Rk5wMjRwMFY1SkE
https://drive.google...TTEzX3VXX01VQWM
https://drive.google...R0JHWDhkaFdha28

Can't wait for a release version.
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