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83Willows 101BugsHD Butterfly Dragonfly Luna-Moth Torchbug (by 83Willow)

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#46 kryptopyr

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 12:18 PM

Does this mod increase the number of butterflies getting spawned?  I didn't think it did without one of the optional files.  I also didn't think the low-res version was any different than vanilla in texture size (nevermind, I see that low res is still larger than vanilla).   Would it make any difference to try Wiseman's version of the meshes?  I'm not sure whether he changes anything that would contribute to crashes, but I know he does offer a version of his modified meshes for 101bugs.

 

Those butterflies and dragonflies are boss. With the new mesh it really puts this mod to shame. Did you get hold of some HQ resources for these as they look pretty much realistic? I tried to capture a flying pair a few weeks ago and pretty much you have no chance unless they land or are dead.

Yeah, I've been leaning heavily on images from Wiki Commons that I've been heavily modifying to get the textures.  The new mesh really does make the difference, though.  The vanilla mesh distorts the wing pattern and simply flips it for the lower wing, both of which make it difficult to get something that looks halfway decent.


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#47 Saviorsrd

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 12:19 PM

Heh.  Right, so, now I've really disabled all those nasty, nasty shadows.  Let's start again.

 

Just so we're clear, the only differences from Vanilla are:  ENBoost, SKSE, Live Another Life, and the Lo-Res 83 Willows mod with shadows removed from all meshes.   Testing begins at the campsite outside Helgen created by LAL

 

Min VRAM:  1285 MB

Max VRAM:  1498 MB

Time to Crash:  4:36, 1:39, 3:07, 3:36, 9:37

Average Time to Crash:  4:31

 

Noteworthy points - this DID resolve the issue with the "spiking" VRAM, while it did ramp up it did so smoothly, which is about what I expect from stable runs (until the obvious.)  VRAM use was also consistent throughout the tests, and in that same ballpark, so I didn't record individual runs after the second.  There was very little stuttering as well.

 

Lastly, I took a direct trip into the swamps near Morthal, where I would expect even more bugs than that river valley, a few times and always crashed instantly.  I have no clue what that means, but retesting it gave such consistent results that I don't think numbers matter.

 

What does all this mean?  *Tears hair out*  I Don't Know!


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#48 SparrowPrince

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 12:53 PM

Savior

 

It might be worth removing LaL and typing in the title screen a COC command. That's what I do for tests. I know LaL is stable, but every mod being removed is testing perfection. So it fixed the rivers, but not the swamps? Weird. Only thing I can fhink of is applying box collision on them instead of the sphere shape. It won't be worth it though until Kryt's mod is released as the meshes in that are better.

 

Krypto

 

Nice. How far along are you? Oh and don't worry. If you think I didn't spot the wings have mirrored UVs you underestimate me. That stuff is like a magnet to my eyes.  :;):


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#49 Saviorsrd

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 01:10 PM

Hmm...nope, that doesn't seem to have worked either.  I'm going to go for broke here and revert completely to vanilla and SKSE only, plus default ini files (which should be good enough to eliminate any remaining variables, since I'm using MO for mods.)  I keep an archive of the Steam install for just this kind of situation, so it'll likely be an hour before I'm back.

 

EDIT:  ...I've run into obviously unrelated issues.  I'll be back when I'm ready to resume testing.


Edited by Saviorsrd, 03 September 2015 - 01:48 PM.

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#50 kryptopyr

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 02:46 PM

I'm getting pretty close.


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#51 Saviorsrd

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 03:31 PM

All right, my appologies for the delay - at some point in the middle of all this I managed to pick up some malware that was throwing off results.  Traces seem to be gone, reran the tests up to the point where I was at.  So where I stand now is:

 

Vanilla with ENBoost and Unofficial Patches:  Works.

With modified 86 Willows:  CTDs in under 5 minutes.

 

(I'm not reposting the numbers again because it all looks the same at this point.)

 

The only idea I have left to eliminate the assets as the source of the problem would be to...well, eliminate the assets - use MO to hide everything but the plugin itself.  Obviously this will result in other issues, but before I proceed with that someone more familiar should probably chime in and inform me what I should be expecting from doing something this drastic.


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#52 Saviorsrd

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 04:56 PM

Hokay, never mind - I just went ahead and did it, on the assumption that the worst that could happen would be making no effective progress. . . and other than discovering just how many bugs there ARE in Skyrim (they really pop with that default pink-purple shiny texture) the game was stable, so I decided to start going through and started to verify WHICH assets are worth looking at.

 

Unfortunately, the conclusion I came to is that it's everything in \meshes\83Willows101BUGs\

 

From there, I'm hoping you can do something more with it, but I'm out of ideas for things to try.

 

EDIT:  . . . sorry, the 'bugs' pun was not intended.


Edited by Saviorsrd, 03 September 2015 - 05:37 PM.

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#53 TechAngel85

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 10:49 PM

So you're saying disabling (hiding) that folder fixes the issue? If yes, we're back to by original statement that it's either a mesh issue or an activator issue. Activator issue is ruled out with the ESP-only run without issues. That only leaves issues with the meshes which is proven if disabling that folder fixes the CTDs. That's 26 meshes to check against vanilla meshes to see what is off. This is not my area of expertise but comparing I can do.



#54 Saviorsrd

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Posted 04 September 2015 - 04:40 AM

Erm, just to clarify, I did a couple of runs against each mesh individually (nothing else loaded but the mesh) and ALL caused CTDs.  They're not just carbon-copies of each other either - even I can tell that just by looking at some of them, there's at least three different ones at work.


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#55 Pretendeavor

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Posted 04 September 2015 - 05:17 AM

Now I'm really wondering.. did you try https://www.nexusmod...im/mods/54485/? ? They overwrite meshes. My Skyrim has been really stable recently and I have Willows + the critter fixes installed. They are also both included in Skyrim Revisited:Legendary so you'd expect more people reporting crashes. Or perhaps it's just that particular location and no one has met the conditions for crashing so far..


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#56 Saviorsrd

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Posted 04 September 2015 - 05:50 AM

I just tried that (even though I told myself I wasn't going to boot up Skyrim today.)  No dice.  I suspect the reason for the difference may be in the 970 OCs hack to get around the "problems" with the 970's memory.  The short short short version is that the GTX 970 effectively only has 3.5 GB of full-speed VRAM with a 512 MB cache.  The OC model from EVGA uses some tricks to get that pseudo-cache up to full speed, but can make it really sensitive to problems.  Normally, in my experience, that's weird stuttering when VRAM gets close to maxed out (due to the memory not physically being able to keep up with demand) but Skyrim already being a fickle beast, things might be getting weird.

 

Unfortunately, I don't have enough cash for a brand new video card right now, especially not to take care of problems with one mod.


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#57 kryptopyr

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Posted 04 September 2015 - 06:08 AM

Another thing that might be worth trying is editing the esp to remove the changes to the critterSpawn activators.  Apparently, the mod removes the max cap property on the spawns.  These are generally set to between 2-5 critters per spawn site, but without a cap the script will default to 10 as a max number.  Oddly enough, because of this the main file will probably generate more insects than the "Higher Spawns" version, which simply changes the script properties to approximately double the vanilla cap without removing the setting completely.


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#58 Pretendeavor

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Posted 04 September 2015 - 07:25 AM

I also wish I had waited a while before buying my 970.. even though it's a different model, knowing its potential issues now whenever I try to solve memory related problems I'm like "but it might be just my 970 causing this so all these hours experimenting with mods and settings are wasted". Perhaps I should instead spend those hours working and saving up money for a new card, it would be so much easier to be 99,99% certain the problems you have aren't hardware related :P Because there is also the possibility of ENBoost using (slower) system memory that causes stuttering and you mistakingly thinking it's because of the card. It still shouldn't CTD in that case though, provided memory settings are set up correctly :/ I hope kryptopyr's suggestion works for you


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#59 Saviorsrd

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Posted 04 September 2015 - 07:51 AM

I also wish I had waited a while before buying my 970.. even though it's a different model, knowing its potential issues now whenever I try to solve memory related problems I'm like "but it might be just my 970 causing this so all these hours experimenting with mods and settings are wasted". Perhaps I should instead spend those hours working and saving up money for a new card, it would be so much easier to be 99,99% certain the problems you have aren't hardware related :P Because there is also the possibility of ENBoost using (slower) system memory that causes stuttering and you mistakingly thinking it's because of the card. It still shouldn't CTD in that case though, provided memory settings are set up correctly :/ I hope kryptopyr's suggestion works for you

Well, fortunately for you the real issue is only confined to one configuration from a certain manufacturer.  Check under your display adapter settings - if it shows 3.5 GB of dedicated video memory, there shouldn't be any weirdness.   The problem is specific to EVGA's OC model, not the 970 in general (as far as I know, some other manufacturer might have done something similar.)


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#60 TechAngel85

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Posted 04 September 2015 - 07:54 AM

Another thing that might be worth trying is editing the esp to remove the changes to the critterSpawn activators. Apparently, the mod removes the max cap property on the spawns. These are generally set to between 2-5 critters per spawn site, but without a cap the script will default to 10 as a max number. Oddly enough, because of this the main file will probably generate more insects than the "Higher Spawns" version, which simply changes the script properties to approximately double the vanilla cap without removing the setting completely.

Krypto, this should rule out the activator theory:
 

Hokay, never mind - I just went ahead and did it, on the assumption that the worst that could happen would be making no effective progress. . . and other than discovering just how many bugs there ARE in Skyrim (they really pop with that default pink-purple shiny texture) the game was stable, so I decided to start going through and started to verify WHICH assets are worth looking at.
 
Unfortunately, the conclusion I came to is that it's everything in \meshes\83Willows101BUGs\
 
From there, I'm hoping you can do something more with it, but I'm out of ideas for things to try.
 
EDIT:  . . . sorry, the 'bugs' pun was not intended.


The fact that the game ran fine with the default spawns from this mod suggests the number isn't the issue. It's more likely the meshes themselves. However, as it's pointed out, this might be a fringe case because we would have had far more reports if this was a common issue since this mod has been in STEP for a long while.





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