STEP 3.0 Development Progress - January 2019

[Decopauge123]

It's going well. We have guide authors in now for a bit of a beta run with the new CMS. They're busy converting their guides to the new system, while helping us refine it by providing feedback. They've all be very helpful to development!

:-)

[Sentroshi]

 It is so hard, to wait another day, week, months year for reinstall Skyrim SE with STEP and Percus Maximus xD.

 

(:  

[Decopauge123]

It's so hard to Wait
Buffalo Springfield
Last Time Around (Released July 30, 1968) (Track 2)
Writers: Neil Young & Richie Furay
Guitars: Stephen Stills, Richie Furay & Neil Young

 

Good things come to those that wait

Nayobe Catalina Gomez (known professionally as Nayobe)

Released in 1986

[z929669]

I've been listening to that Buffalo Springfield tune for years, so I can hear it now ... I've actually been mostly away from the project since late September. Sold my house and bought a new one. Moving and currently renovating the new one. Development while I was out was fairly stagnant, so I'm still assessing where we are and where we are expecting to be by end of Dec. Our progress is completely dependent on the kb time of a single developer.

 

More to come as I get back into the swing of things ...

[Decopauge123]

Welcome back, z929669.  I hope the moving and renovation goes well.

[stinkyargor]

For the first time I actually play longer than I mod. Take your time S.T.E.P. 3.0, it will be done soon enough

[Sentroshi]

Me is just waiting for STEP 3.0 before i start a Skyrim SE intallation. Anyway, i bought a house too this year so i truly understand how much work it can be. 

[TechAngel85]

I just wanted to give a tiny update about where we are...

Currently, we are still in the "Beta Testers" phase of development. This phase brought in several Guide authors to start using the new CMS to port their Guides onto the new infrastructure. Once they got up and running, development was happening quickly to fix issues they were reporting. Now that most of the refinement from the initial wave is complete, we're nearing the end of this phase. We only have around 6 items left to complete before moving on to the next phase, which is a pre-production phase where the rest of the CMS features will be developed and ironed out before release.

In the meantime, content has also been moving onto to the new site fairly easily. Having the editor in a nearly complete state has really helped with this process. This content isn't just being ported it over, though. We're doing our best to update anything that is out-of-date to ensure the release will also include all sorts of updates to the content that we're currently providing on the wiki.

 

None of this means that we're close to release. What it does mean is that progress is still rolling as we're nearing the end of our second phase of development and heading into our third.

[ThatMarchingBunny]

I don't know if I will end getting in trouble for my opinion on this but after checking back here over and over again I feel it needs to be said as no one else seems to be saying it.

How long has it been since you all start working on 3.0? I see a post for it that is dated November 2017. That means we are now coming in over two years. Think about this for a second, two years for what is essentially just a mod list. That is ... a list where the user still has to go and install each individual mod one by one. A list that could literally just be put into a doc file and still be usable. I think you have a serious over engineering problem going on and are putting way too much focus on features that most people probably are not even going to use, much less care about. I realize this is a side project ... but a mod list taking 2 years and still not being close to release should tell you something is wrong.

Don't even get me started if Vortex actually ends up doing the mod list thing well enough. Because if it does, it will make this entire guide and all the work you have been doing obsolete.

Whatever. Think I am going to give up on waiting for this, cause it's quite honestly tiring checking back only to hear that you are not even close to release after 2 years.

[z929669]

Well, if you keep coming back to check, then you must not have a lot of comparable resources to draw from. There is really nothing comprehensive out there for modding TES games, and it's why we built this website. There were/are guides out there for Morrowind, Obilivion, and Skyrim, but none of them are comprehensive or updated to reflect the constantly-changing mod environment. Some of these guides/sites were great but did not comprehansively meet the needs of newcomers to modding. I remember just starting out in 2006 and scrubbing the internet for pieces to get me started. Thousands of web pages and tons of work rooting out fact from fiction, good advice from bad, redundancies from best practices. Supporting utilities, methods, mods, and hardware. There is sooo much, and so little time. Step is a one-stop shop for such people. We have all of the info on a single site, and we keep the important and changing stuff updated and relevant. If Step were around in 2006, I would have saved a year in browsing and become adept at modding in weeks rather than years.

 

Example: tesivPOSItive was a great and comprehensive Morrowing/Oblivion modding site, but it no longer exists and it and its predecessor site only lasted for a few years. It was also only a wiki. Step has been live, reliably accessible, and active for nearly 8 years now. I think we are more than just a modding guide. Even long-standing and reliable Bethesda modding sites like Nexus, TES Alliance, and AFK Mods are not like Step. We show new people how to mod and bring resources together cohesively for veteran modders. And we have forums like those other websites. And our wiki is totally open.

 

If you bother to read through our goals and aspirations for this community and websites, you might understand better what we do and what we are working towards and why it takes us so long.

 

You are entitled to your opinion. So are we. We do this for fun. It's a hobby site ... your appreciation is not required  

[ThatMarchingBunny]

Well, if you keep coming back to check, then you must not have a lot of comparable resources to draw from. There is really nothing comprehensive out there for modding TES games, and it's why we built this website. There were/are guides out there for Morrowind, Obilivion, and Skyrim, but none of them are comprehensive or updated to reflect the constantly-changing mod environment. Some of these guides/sites were great but did not comprehansively meet the needs of newcomers to modding. I remember just starting out in 2006 and scrubbing the internet for pieces to get me started. Thousands of web pages and tons of work rooting out fact from fiction, good advice from bad, redundancies from best practices. Supporting utilities, methods, mods, and hardware. There is sooo much, and so little time. Step is a one-stop shop for such people. We have all of the info on a single site, and we keep the important and changing stuff updated and relevant. If Step were around in 2006, I would have saved a year in browsing and become adept at modding in weeks rather than years.

 

Example: tesivPOSItive was a great and comprehensive Morrowing/Oblivion modding site, but it no longer exists and it and its predecessor site only lasted for a few years. It was also only a wiki. Step has been live, reliably accessible, and active for nearly 8 years now. I think we are more than just a modding guide. Even long-standing and reliable Bethesda modding sites like Nexus, TES Alliance, and AFK Mods are not like Step. We show new people how to mod and bring resources together cohesively for veteran modders. And we have forums like those other websites. And our wiki is totally open.

 

If you bother to read through our goals and aspirations for this community and websites, you might understand better what we do and what we are working towards and why it takes us so long.

 

You are entitled to your opinion. So are we. We do this for fun. It's a hobby site ... your appreciation is not required

I typically come back to check because I like the guide here. However, that is me pointing to the guide that is already there without all these so called features you have been working on for over 2 years. But I play special edition now as I am sure many do. So the question remains, why are these features more important than just releasing the guide itself? Why couldn't you just release the 3.0 guide in the same way you have been doing it? And if you really wanted to add new features, why not just do it over a time period. Release the guide so people can use it, and then add the features. Because the main purpose of the guide is as you pointed out ... comprehensive information that people can follow. But I got news for you, no one can follow a guide that isn't available to see yet. While you are working away extremely slowly on these feature, most people are just moving on or using other guides. I have seen people just continue to recommend Lexy's guide, as well as a few others, but they all have the same problem.

 

The issue I have with that and other guides is it's too extensive or to specific. It adds a lot of things I honestly am not very interested in. STEP is a good starting point to then add mods on top of.

 

See I understand the point of the guide itself. What I don't understand is the point of taking two years just to release 3.0. Especially since all the main work is already done, is it not? At least that is how it's been worded here quite constantly, even a year ago.

 

Just to pull a quote to show you what I mean.

"In the last update we told the community that both the new STEP:Core and STEP:Extended Pack were basically complete and ready to roll out. This is still the case beside some minor fine tuning once we get the Guides on our CMS and some small updates to the patches." - January 2019

 

"Coming soon …" - August 2018

 

"Things will start getting exciting very soon!" December 6th 2017

 

So, going back to your response.

"We have all of the info on a single site, and we keep the important and changing stuff updated and relevant. If Step were around in 2006, I would have saved a year in browsing and become adept at modding in weeks rather than years."

And yet, here we are in 2019, and STEP SE is still not available. I think it's safe to assume that most players these days are playing on SE. You can't consider yourself keeping things up to date and relevant when it's been two years since you actually updated the guide and the guide that does currently exist, is outdated and not even for the version most people are playing now.

 

Look, I am not really trying to be mean or anything. I and I am sure many other people have been waiting specifically for this guide here. Just waiting and waiting. It's quite honestly maddening when things are kept being presented in a manner that it could be coming soon, and then it just never comes. And now finally despite all of that, now we have "None of this means that we're close to release."

 

Then let me ask you this ... when exactly do you even think you will release this guide. Do YOU think I should keep waiting after two years? And why should I wait? What is it you are working on that is going to be so important to this guide that gives me a solid reason to wait. Will these features be useful to me in some way, more so than how the guide has been? What difference will these features make for those who use STEP?

[Hestia]

My only gripe is getting teased about it's close to release, and then suddenly pulling out.

 

I hope this doesn't turn into a Bannerlord/FFXV development hell situation. Like taking more than 7 years.

[Cgraham]

I agree with the last few posters. I followed step 2.0 and really enjoyed it, but when I found out about it, it was already mostly outdated. I go out and find that a step 3.0 is being made and is apparently close to completion... a year and a half ago. I book marked this forum for the sole purpose for checking on it. I eventually got tired of waiting after checking for months and went and played other games. Like most people, I eventually re-caught the Skyrim bug and wanted to come back and check out new mods, on a more stable game (SE) and re looked on the forum a month ago, expecting it to be complete... nope... but they sound close!. - month passes - An update that essentially sounds like "Progress is slow, and we're not close anymore" with a bunch of "developer" mumbo-jumbo about phases and engineering.

 

I'm no expert and I get that you guy's do this for fun and I appreciate you for the guides you've done in the past, but its edging on ridiculous now. I understand wanting to give us quality, and quality takes time but I don't understand how this has been spread out like it has been. Like I'd get it if you were giving us a finished, all conflicts fixed, one-click download of the modlist, but we're still gonna have to manually go through and make all the changes necessary ourselves. For all we know there's been some fall out with the step crew and that's why its slowed. 

 

I will admit that I feel like this just isn't that important to you anymore. I'll teeter and say that the classic "I made this for myself, deal with it" excuse is not good enough. If you made it for you, keep it to yourself and stop keeping us on the hook, I understand that putting a date on it will just lead to more disappointment from us or stress from you or both... but throw us a bone.

[TechAngel85]

I want to set something straight here. Most of you seem to be only referring to the Guides. The v3.0 Guides are basically done and have been for some time. I keep going back to update them from time to time due to the length of time for the website release. STEP 3.0 is more than just those Guides, though. It's the entire website building project and that is what is taking the expended amount of time, not the Guides. The website is being built from the ground up...remember, it took Nexus a long time to get their new site up too and they had someone working on it full-time! Websites take time. Websites being nearly entirely built by a single individual and only in their spare time takes even longer. That is where we're at. If we had the resources to pay for someone to work on the site full-time, it would have been out a year ago. We run on donations and donations only keep the site operating on a server.

 

• STEP v3.0 Guilds = complete
• Porting content from wiki to new website = ~60% complete (guessing, it could be more than that). Really only one person working on this too as most of our staff seems to be taking a break or are dealing with life, like most of us.
• Website Development = several months out assuming that work can continue on a steady pace (free time is unpredictable)

Finally, I can say that we're not going anywhere. There is no mentality of "we built it for us, use it as it is" or anything of the sort. What we do is for the community. There is, however, only about a crew of 3 working on individual pieces of the process. Mator is pretty much strictly development. Z is over some development and most of the themeing (CSS, forums, HTML, etc.). I am strictly focused on content, testing, and feedback. If we had more crew working, it would go much quicker, but it's up to the staff how they spend their free time. Of these, development is slowest because it takes the most time. It would be great to have another developer on board to help Mator out, but no one has stepped up that has been able to really dive into it. If there is someone with RoR experience, they are welcomed to contact us.

I hear the concerns being brought up and there has been information that we've been holding back to help manage expectations. I will discuss with Z about providing more of this information.

[angellus]

As a Web developer myself and also a gamer, I can understand how long it takes to build a good modern Website, especially in your free time and not as your full time job. Technologies change, targets move, requirements get updated.

 

I think most of the people coming to this thread does not have a problem waiting until "its done with its done" for the new STEP 3.0 Website. The issue is that STEP is basically the Skyrim modding guide now. I recently tried a Fallout 4 modded play through and man, I wish I had something like STEP for Fallout 4. As it stands right now, STEP is dead and in limbo because of this new Website project. 2.0 is outdated/gutted and taken down so it is completely unusable and this STEP 3.0 guide is not public access.

 

If the Website has really been delaying the release of STEP 3.0 for this long, just release the guide on its own. Put it back on the old Wiki or hell, release it in a Google Doc. Modding communities that do not expect perfect professional made Websites and they will not crucify if you do not provide them. The guides this community this provides is more important than any Website you can produce, even if it is provided in a simple Google Doc.