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Really weird issues that just don't make sense.


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#1 Darklustre

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 05:16 PM

I've been trying to run down this issue of CTDing on start in Winterhold. At first I thought it was the mod conflict between Interesting NPS, Holds (oh notorious mod!), and Immersive College of Winterhold. However unselecting them all did nothing to fix this. I finally discovered this seemed to be related to my installation of Elder Blood ENB. I was getting a red error message: bfloatpointrendertarget=1 is not set or you have multiple copies of this file. When I checked it was set to 1. I found a thread where someone had this problem and they were saying you need to only alter the .ini in MO. Not Steam or Documents. So I made sure both were set back to default, and I only changed MO2. However this was crashing the game on any start. I could initialize the game and get to the default game window set up by Skyrim Unbound. It definitely looked like the ENB was working fine on it from what I could tell. Once I set up a game and started anywhere- it would ctd. So finally I set the MO2 .ini prefs back to default and first changed the one in Documents. Game ran perfectly, but the error message was back. Set that to default and tried Skyrim. Same thing. Went around in circles, trying each one. Finally I set all three to default and the game ran, the error message was still there, and the graphics seemed noticeably improved from vanilla. But this doesn't make any sense. How can it run with the vanilla default ini settings? 

This is so far beyond me. Anyone want to try to take a shot at this? 


Edited by Darklustre, 12 February 2019 - 05:20 PM.

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#2 Greg

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 10:34 PM

Th easy solution is to run Mod Organizer, click the Tools icon (between the cog and wrench/screwdriver), and click INI Editor. This opens a dialog with skyrim.ini in the first tab an skyrimprefs.ini in the second tab. These are the two INI files used by the game when run from Mod Organizer.



#3 Darklustre

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 11:59 PM

That is the ini I referenced when I was mentioning changing the ini in MO. And that is what started ctding my game. And it's weird. I can load the game, the Skyrim Unbound start menu, activate it in MCM, build my character and all that. And then, when I complete the character and go to start the game- it ctds every time. 

Setting that back to default lets me play the game with the error message. Right now I have all three skyrimpreferences.inis set to default. But the game is running. The ENB is working. And that doesn't make sense.

 

Also, I don't seem to have anything in logs.


Edited by Darklustre, 13 February 2019 - 12:04 AM.

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#4 Greg

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 07:51 AM

bFloatPointRenderTarget just determines whether the game uses integers (=0) or floating point (=1) when rendering. Integers are faster but less precise so I don't see how this setting by itself can cause the game to CTD. Did you change UsePatchSpeedhackWithoutGraphics=false in enblocal.ini? I assume so or you' see a big red message saying it isn't set. You might try running BethINI to establish good ini settings for the game to see if this helps.



#5 Shadriss

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 09:39 AM

Also, it should be pointed out (and Greg did imply this, but didn't say it explicitly) that the two INIs that are in the other locations are not looked at at all when you run the game through ModOrganizer... it only looks at the ones in your MO profiles folder for the profile you are using. I echo Greg about trying to get stable setups with BETHIni first, and add on that you should ensure all directions for installing your ENB were followed... I don't think I've seen a single ENB not have you set bFloatRenderTarget to 1, and as Greg also said, I can't think why an ENB would cause CTD unless it was not installed properly.


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#6 Darklustre

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 01:15 PM

bFloatPointRenderTarget just determines whether the game uses integers (=0) or floating point (=1) when rendering. Integers are faster but less precise so I don't see how this setting by itself can cause the game to CTD. Did you change UsePatchSpeedhackWithoutGraphics=false in enblocal.ini? I assume so or you' see a big red message saying it isn't set. You might try running BethINI to establish good ini settings for the game to see if this helps.

I never said that was causing the game to crash. I specifically said that it was altering the skyrimpreferences.ini in MO2 that was causing the game to crash. I said twice that setting MO2's ini back to default and changing the values in the other directories makes the game run, but gives the error message, despite it being set to 1. And that everything is set to default vanilla values, but the ENB is still working fine and the game runs. So that doesn't make sense. 

That is set to false. What I did to establish good ini settings was to delete the ini files in both Docs and Skyrim and then run the vanilla game to reestablish. Do you think I still need to find this BethINI and run it? Thanks.


Also, it should be pointed out (and Greg did imply this, but didn't say it explicitly) that the two INIs that are in the other locations are not looked at at all when you run the game through ModOrganizer... it only looks at the ones in your MO profiles folder for the profile you are using. I echo Greg about trying to get stable setups with BETHIni first, and add on that you should ensure all directions for installing your ENB were followed... I don't think I've seen a single ENB not have you set bFloatRenderTarget to 1, and as Greg also said, I can't think why an ENB would cause CTD unless it was not installed properly.

Again, I didn't say that the ENB was making my game crash. I said altering the MO2 Skyrimpreference.ini was making my game crash. I don't understand how this is being so misunderstood. Since I only changed the Documents and Steam skyrimpreferences.ini first, and the game ran correctly, and the ENB seems to be working just fine- I really don't see how MO2 isn't using those values. Since it worked with those values changed and MO2 untouched. It was only when I read in a forum that I needed to change the ini in MO2 that I reset the ini in Documents and Skyrim folder back to vanilla and altered the MO2 only. And that is when my game CTDs without fail- as stated above. Resetting the MO2 to vanilla, has again let me play the game successfully. Only I get the above error message.


Edited by Darklustre, 13 February 2019 - 01:29 PM.

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#7 Shadriss

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 01:46 PM

Again, I didn't say that the ENB was making my game crash. I said altering the MO2 Skyrimpreference.ini was making my game crash. I don't understand how this is being so misunderstood. Since I only changed the Documents and Steam skyrimpreferences.ini first, and the game ran correctly, and the ENB seems to be working just fine- I really don't see how MO2 isn't using those values. Since it worked with those values changed and MO2 untouched. It was only when I read in a forum that I needed to change the ini in MO2 that I reset the ini in Documents and Skyrim folder back to vanilla and altered the MO2 only. And that is when my game CTDs without fail- as stated above. Resetting the MO2 to vanilla, has again let me play the game successfully. Only I get the above error message.

First, as I said, the only INIs being used when running the game through MO is the one in the MO profile being used. Changing them anywhere else will have zero effect on the game. Using BETHINI allows you to make those tweaks (as it can link into those profiles) safely and correctly. So yes - I'd say you want to find BETHINI and use it.

 

As to why we both commented about the ENB side - there was enough in the original post that talked about it that we both made the assumption (I know I did, and pretty sure Greg did) that you had the ENB as a culprit in this. Obviously, we misread that. Regardless, the BETHINI suggestion stands.

 

Chances are, when you were making the change, that you either spelled a setting incorrectly or entered in the values incorrectly. Either of these could result in CTDs once the relevant item in the INI is actually used. It's very easy to do. Both of these (and a whole host of other potential INI problems) are easilly avoided by using the tool mentioned.


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#8 Darklustre

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 02:21 PM

Thanks. I will Google about BETHini and try to learn about this tool if that is the suggestion. But what is baffling me is that everything I researched suggested it would completely mess up the game if you didn't change the vanilla skyrimpreference.ini values correctly before running an ENB. Now when I changed the values, I only did it in Documents and/or Skyrim folder. Yet the game ran fine, and the graphics appear improved. If MO2 didn't use the settings I changed in those folders, would the ENB still have run correctly off the vanilla skyrimpreferences.ini in its directory? From researching ENB errors, I would expect the purple trees, green skies, half-black screens and CTDs if the skyrimpreferences.ini wasn't set as necessary. I've read severe issues just from neglecting one changed value, let alone by not changing anything from default vanilla. 

 

Can I get some feedback about this please?


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#9 Greg

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 07:13 PM

You can find BethINI on Nexus (https://www.nexusmod...yrim/mods/69787) and the forum topic for information and discussions at https://forum.step-p...-by-doubleyou/. The advantage of using BethINI is that it uses known good and optimum settings based on your preferences so you don't have to guess or experiment to find these optimal settings.



#10 Darklustre

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 11:51 PM

Thanks Greg. I've downloaded it and been watching Gamer Poet's videos. I'm not seeing how this is supposed to solve the issue with MO2 ctding when I paste in the adjusted ini from Documents. It wasn't crashing the game in Documents. So aside from getting tweaks, how can I solve the issue with what is going on and where I need to change the ini?


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#11 Greg

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Posted 14 February 2019 - 07:59 AM

The point of BethINI is that it establishes known good skyrim.ini and skyrimprefs.ini files that have been tested extensively so you should run BethINI first and then apply any customizations you need (preferably one at a time with a good test run).



#12 Darklustre

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Posted 14 February 2019 - 12:07 PM

.


Edited by Darklustre, 14 February 2019 - 12:17 PM.

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#13 Darklustre

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Posted 14 February 2019 - 12:51 PM

Ok so BethINI set up the ini and it seems that it was correctly set to the specifications of Elder Blood ENB. Now that the MO2 is altered, it is ctding again as soon as I finish character creation. So there is very obviously some problem with changing the MO2 skyrim preferences. If I set them back to vanilla, I'll be able to actually play the game. 

 

Is there something I can show you so we can start figuring out what the problem is? I have been dying to play for weeks.


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#14 Darklustre

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Posted 14 February 2019 - 01:29 PM

Here is the settings in my MO2 ini. Maybe you can find something wrong with them?
 


Edited by Greg, 14 February 2019 - 05:41 PM.
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#15 Darklustre

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Posted 14 February 2019 - 11:47 PM

So I fixed my issue myself. But it doesn't make any sense. I reset the MO2 skyrimpreferences.ini back to vanilla and ONLY changed the bfloatrender value to 1. I didn't change all the other values that should be changed. My game is running fine. There is no red error message. ENB seems to be working. I get the intro message in the upper left hand corner. Graphics seem improved.

 

I still hope you can help me make sense of this. I'm probably not going to get the full graphical effects with no shadows and whatall enabled. 


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