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Can't get 1.5x height and trunks for distant pines 01, 02, and 04

trees dyndolod

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#1 Titan88

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Posted 18 February 2019 - 11:43 AM

Hi Sheson,
 
Is it possible to get a suggestion on next steps from you? Maybe you can tell me if you think I am defeating myself or something in DynDOLOD's pipeline is defeating me due to my misunderstanding?
 
I have fairly customized replacement meshes for many vanilla trees and I'm trying to get them to render what at least looks like full models far into the distance.
 
This is working fantastically for all customized vanilla trees EXCEPT treepineforest01, 02, and 04. Those three trees at some far distance turn to short versions with no trunks. Their full models are 1.5x vanilla height and I'm trying to get their distance models to match that height and have trunks. Some of my other customized trees are also 1.5x height and they behave as expected/desired (full 1.5x height model shown far in the distance with trunks).
 
Either I am mixing up paradigms from different parts of documentation or I have other misunderstandings. I would call what I'm doing "dynamic paradigm":
  • Dynamic lod is handling all trees currently (I disabled traditional tree lod in Dyndolod TES5 ini)
  • None of my customized trees (working or otherwise) are mentioned in dyndolod logs (I think this is fine because they are not being handled by lodgen)
  • None of my customized trees are present in BTO files (also fine I think)
  • Whether right or wrong for this paradigm, I'm providing "[name]passthru_lod.nif" files for each customized tree. This seems to be required for the trees that are working (displaying far into the distance) even though I'm not sure these actual nifs are what is rendered (I have seen static tree documentation pertaining to CRC but at this point I need to avoid polluting my question so you can correct whatever you suspect I've got wrong)
  • I'm also providing billboards (TXT + DDS) for each customized tree because I can't tell if they are used in processing, even though my intention is not to use billboards in game (though if I have to in order to get treepineforest01, 02, and 04 to behave as I described, I will)
  • My only tree rule in DynDOLOD is: 

         tree, Static LOD4, Static LOD8, (no LOD 16), (no VWD), Far LOD, Unchanged
I suspect, due to one or more misunderstandings, that the hybrid tree part of the pipeline is what is defeating me. Is there something different about the treepineforest01, 02, and 04 trees as far as dynamic lod processing is concerned, perhaps processing forces them to be hybrid trees but does not do this to other trees (aspen, reach, snow pines, etc.)? I have other trees at 1.5x height working as intended as described above. I'm happy to make any custom nifs/billboards as needed, I'm just out of guesses as to what I should provide for this paradigm to render the three problematic pines at full 1.5x height far into the distance.
 
From documentation and other forum posts, I'm starting to think most people asking for trees as "full models far into the distance" are using what I see as "ultra trees paradigm", where traditional tree lod is left ON in dydolod tes5 ini, dynamic lod doesn't handle trees, trees are included in dyndolod's logs and present in BTO files. Should I be doing "ultra trees paradigm" instead to achieve what I describe? I have not tried to switch to "ultra trees paradigm" because performance has been good with "dynamic paradigm" and only the three pine trees don't behave as expected. If I switch, I have to re-figure out what nif/lod files to provide. That may sound straight forward (look in manual about static tree etc.) but I am now weary from so many attempts. Even so, I will switch if that is what's needed/suggested.
 
Thanks. Any guidance is much appreciated. This is one of the few games I care about, so thank you very much for all your work in making it awesome.

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#2 sheson

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Posted 18 February 2019 - 12:36 PM

Dynamic lod is handling all trees currently (I disabled traditional tree lod in Dyndolod TES5 ini)


DynDOLOD_Manual.htm "Terminiology": Dynamic Object LOD generated by DynDOLOD are objects that change state based on quests like military tents, ships, animated objects like waterfalls or fires or glow LOD windows that reacts to weather/sunlight.

A handful of trees might be done as dynamic LOD. Like the Gildergreen.
 

None of my customized trees (working or otherwise) are mentioned in dyndolod logs (I think this is fine because they are not being handled by lodgen)


That depends how the customized trees are added to the game and if LOD resources exists. Hard to tell without seeing the LOD and knowing nothing about the tree mod.
 

None of my customized trees are present in BTO files (also fine I think)


DynDOLOD-Trees.html: This describes advanced settings to replace tree LOD by 3D static Object LOD.

The entire documents describes how (hybrid or full) 3D LOD mods and billboards are used to add LOD for trees to object LOD. With pictures of hybrids and "billboards" BTOs. So, that is not fine if you want want to use the ultra trees option.
 

Whether right or wrong for this paradigm, I'm providing "[name]passthru_lod.nif" files for each customized tree. This seems to be required for the trees that are working (displaying far into the distance) even though I'm not sure these actual nifs are what is rendered (I have seen static tree documentation pertaining to CRC but at this point I need to avoid polluting my question so you can correct whatever you suspect I've got wrong)


Dedicated LOD resources are required for things to have LOD. If you want 3D tree LOD then its best to have hybrid or otherwise optimized LOD models with the correct file names as explained in the docs.
 

I'm also providing billboards (TXT + DDS) for each customized tree because I can't tell if they are used in processing, even though my intention is not to use billboards in game (though if I have to in order to get treepineforest01, 02, and 04 to behave as I described, I will)


By default DynDOLOD.exe falls back to use tree LOD billboards for all trees it doesn't find a 3D static object LOD in Meshes\DynDOLOD\lod\trees\*passthru_lod.nif for.

If you follow the instructions in DynDOLOD-Trees.html, then billboards are used for the higher LOD levels.
 

tree, Static LOD4, Static LOD8, (no LOD 16), (no VWD), Far LOD, Unchanged

You made up your own rule. It says:

 

For every full model that has 'tree' in its path/filename and for which no LOD model exists (because VWD is unchecked) it will try to use the LOD models that matches Level 4 and 8.

 

So that rules doesn't make sense. You need to check VWD, because you want to apply this rule to trees for which LOD models/billboards exist.

It will also most likely use the same LOD model for Level4 and 8. For performance and resource reasons using 3D tree LOD models in level 8 is not a good idea. Use billboards and increase LOD level 4 distance instead if required.


Edited by sheson, 18 February 2019 - 12:39 PM.

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#3 Titan88

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Posted 18 February 2019 - 04:10 PM

At initial read through of your response and cross reference of DynDOLOD-Trees.html, it looks like I may have misinterpreted the purpose of TreeLOD=0 in the ini and the meaning of VWD. It doesn't take but one such misinterpretation to mess up the way a person may interpret related info. I will make further attempts tonight and in the evenings this week to confirm and reply back. Thanks.


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#4 Titan88

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Posted 19 February 2019 - 11:44 PM

Well, I was able to fix some misunderstandings and I still have some, but what I wanted was achieved. Thanks very much for the tool. I'm not going to say how I got it done because I have not done it properly and it will misdirect other people. I will say, had I noticed the Docs\trees.ultra sub folder with DynDOLOD-Trees.html earlier, I might have started with that and not mangled things the way I have. This is not a sub folder's fault, I just missed it until late in my endeavor.

 

Obligatory screen shots below. These trees were super important to me, so thanks again.

 

1.jpg

 

2.jpg


Edited by Titan88, 19 February 2019 - 11:48 PM.

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#5 sheson

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Posted 20 February 2019 - 04:45 AM

Great. Do not hesitate to ask more questions to clarify more things if needed.


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