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#1 Sharlikran

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Posted 21 March 2019 - 10:12 AM

I was wondering how would the site overall between the different moderators be able to handle this.

With the latest release of xedit the proper way to clean a file is to use a command line parameter that we've listed in the documentation.

With version 4.0.2, we have removed the apply filter for cleaning, remove identical to master records, and undelete deleted references.

Because of the cleaning improvements you actually would have to do more than those three steps now in order to thoroughly clean the file. That is to say if you know all the steps and setting changes that need to be made you could still clean manually safely and thoroughly. In fact one of the settings that you need to change, which you would uncheck simple records, requires a restart of xedit. And then when you're done cleaning all your files it might be a good idea to check that again because it takes more time to calculate the complex records.

The problem is that all of that guessing and steps and clicking and everything that a user would have to do is all taken care of with the Quick Auto clean procedure. In addition to that the quick clean procedure eliminates the need for detailed documentation and videos.

What example of the variety of different skill levels that users have, is one user currently doesn't understand what to answer when asked the question there are x amount of cash files would you like to remove them yes or no.

So really the Quick Auto clean procedure he's a way to create a user-friendly method for everybody of all skill levels.

So the reason that I'm giving all of that explanation and asking the question how could this be handled is because I'm looking for away to do something that I'm unsure of how you guys would react to it.

Basically I'm wondering if the moderators can contact either the authors of the guides or if the moderators can alter the guide at the request of our team.

I would like to request that all of the manual cleaning steps are removed from all the guides.

This is an issue because even as recently as yesterday, but this is been happening ever since the release of 4.0.0, a user contacted us and showed us the link to the step guide he was using.

A simple polite statement of all videos and guides prior to the release of 4.0.0 are outdated in regards to manual cleaning. I stressed the point that if you see a guy that tells you to install a variety of over a hundred mods that's fine the guide itself is not outdated. Only the section of a guy that might tell you to manually clean a file is the part that you would want to ignore.

The user persisted in following the guide even after we told him maybe three times not to follow that part. His main concern was that he wanted to make sure that he was doing everything correctly so that the results would be the same as shown in the guide.

And we stressed that the guy didn't need to be followed and that it was outdated. And that the Quick Auto cleaning procedure handled all of the steps automatically that you would need to have done in the past. That the new procedure would also change settings and perform extra operations that make the new cleaning procedure more thorough.

And after doing so he was still following the guide trying to make sure that you did it right.

Having to repeat that, seeing his reaction of what he was looking for for this reassurance that he was doing it right, made it very difficult to get him past all that.

We even have a cleaning video that goes over a lot of the questions that people have and have had for the past 6 years.

Questions like loot it says that I am going to remove 50 identical to master records, yet when I read the cleaning procedure I removed 70 why is that? Another question like loot says that I have to clean a file, and I know the author already cleaned it with an earlier version, so why do I have to clean it with the new version? Mod authors that are well-known typically complete all of their mods and you would never have to do so, but loot is telling me I'm going to be able to remove some identical to master records, xedit has to be broken because why would I have to do that?

In the video answers all of that kind of stuff. I'm not going to go through all the answers because it's in the video but just do at least to get at the part about cleaning files again with the latest version of xedit, it's simply because there's no time machine for the authors to go back and clean their mod that they released three years ago with the current version, and the current version uses a better system that cleans the mod more thoroughly.

And what's concerning myself and what's difficult for elminster to deal with is the repeat questions of, am I doing this right because there's this guide that says...

And it's getting a little redundant to repeat over and over that the Quick Auto clean procedure handles all of the steps automatically and you know that it's finished when it prints out the report that you would provide to the loot team it says that it's finished. What's it stops at that point it's done and the file has been cleaned correctly. And the program just sits there and waits for you to close it, so that you can review what was cleaned out of it. Giving you an opportunity if you need to, if you have any concerns to restore a backup. Because everyone knows we do put a copy of the file that was cleaned into a backup folder.

So having all of the manual cleaning information scattered throughout all of the various guides specifically step guides, is just causing a lot of extra question and answer and users repeatedly asking did I do this right or users asking I'm following a guide and I can no longer find the option in the program to do the cleaning.

Can your site is a whole help with that and either get guide authors to remove that from their guides, or four authors that may not be updating their guides or may not frequent the site, can the moderators that have access to that kind of editing remove that from the guide.

Please

Sorry about the post not having as much punctuation or having a few wrong words. I'll change it later. I'm about to go to work and I'm doing this from my phone for right now. Since I'm going to be basically working or commuting for 10 hours this way there's some time for me to see what kind of feedback I get from the moderators and what your overall feeling is about it.

Edited by Sharlikran, 21 March 2019 - 10:14 AM.

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#2 TechAngel85

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Posted 21 March 2019 - 03:34 PM

Our current STEP Guide (v2.10.0) is very dated. We're currently working on building a new platform and website for STEP. I already have this corrected for the next release of the Guide (v3.0) on the new website.

 

What I have done for the current Guide is:

Hopefully that helps with regards to the STEP Guide. The rest of the guides on the wiki are not officially associated with STEP. They are the guides that various users have put together. I will try to reach out to their authors and point them to this topic.

 

Also, I can be reached on Discord for some anything urgent, as well. Same username.



#3 DarkladyLexy

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Posted 21 March 2019 - 03:54 PM

my guide should already be up to date with the Latest Quick Cleaning method that xEdit uses.


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#4 Sharlikran

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Posted 24 March 2019 - 05:17 PM

Thanks for the two of you mentioning that. I wish more people had seen this because I just had yet another person say:
 

I've reverted back to FO4Edit 3.2.1 to start making my new mod. Since I couldn't get anyone to link to updated info about 4.0.2...


I don't know if they missed the What's New document included with the download or what. They keep saying they need updated information when using 4.0.2. I can't figure out what information they need though.

They are using Fallout 4 and for Fallout 4 4.0.x is required! Using an older version will make Fallout 4 plugins that have incorrect record formats. While trying to troubleshoot reports from people on Discord I would use the FO4 CK and the plugin would crash it until Elminster fixed some aspect of the record. I have told people over and over the Gambit77, Elminster, and other top developers of Fallout 4 use the program so much they reported all the issues with Fallout 4 and other game modes they use.


Edited by Sharlikran, 24 March 2019 - 05:19 PM.

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#5 TechAngel85

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Posted 26 March 2019 - 06:31 PM

They are using Fallout 4 and for Fallout 4 4.0.x is required!

I went through all the Fallout 4 user guides on the forum and wiki that I knew about off-hand. I've taken action and updated the following for current xEdit usage:

 

EDIT:
I also updated my dated guide because users still seem to be trying to following it although I've recommended against it:
https://wiki.step-pr...85/SSE_Guide/v2



#6 Kelmych

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Posted 03 April 2019 - 01:53 AM

I changed the FO3 guide for setting up Mod Organizer to use the new version of xEdit for cleaning. I still have a few changes to make to the instructions on cleaning the FO3 DLC ESMs (since they include Roy Batty's procedure for removing some deleted navmeshes from two DLCs).

 

The biggest problem is that the videos that including cleaning which are referenced in the guide are no longer correct.




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