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CTD at 3.1GB


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#16 JudgmentJay

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 10:36 AM

JudgmentJay - I assume you are basing this on personal experience? Any idea what kind of ratio of VRAM is loaded into RAM? It obviously isn't 1 to 1 (otherwise it couldn't use unlimited VRAM). I might run a test tonight to remove all of my textures from MO and see how Ram and VRAM change. I'll post results.


Yes, it's based on extensive personal experience. I'm not sure the exact ratio... I don't check VRAM usage much, but I always have physical RAM usage displayed on the screen when I'm messing around with mods. When I go from a vanilla install to a vanilla install + Texture Pack Combiner, it's +~600mb of physical RAM usage when loading into Riverwood.
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#17 JudgmentJay

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 10:40 AM

Actually, it probably is pretty close to a 1:1 ratio for physical objects that have to be loaded... stuff like textures. Eye candy like AA, higher resolution shadows, etc will only affect VRAM.
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#18 viking

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 10:45 AM

TPC w/ SRO? I was trying to see if we could come up with a ratio just based on that plus disk space (~7gb compressed) of TPC, but the textures that are loaded are so dependent on the scene that I think it has to be ram vs vram, not ram vs disk space.
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#19 viking

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 10:47 AM

Actually it probably is pretty close to a 1:1 ratio for physical objects that have to be loaded... stuff like textures. Eye candy like AA, higher resolution shadows, etc will only affect VRAM.

That doesn't seem unrealistic to me. I'll try to run a test tonight and see if I can get some numbers to back it up.


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#20 JudgmentJay

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 10:48 AM

Yes TPC with SRO. And yeah, disk space means nothing as obviously you're not loading all your textures at once...
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#21 Gyro

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 10:48 AM

I'm going to guess there isn't a simple "Stop mirroring" command because otherwise somebody would have already addressed it?
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#22 viking

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 10:55 AM

No, there isn't a simple "stop mirroring" command, it is an issue with directx9 and earlier. The url from Monty has more details:

Unfortunately DX9 based games will use main memory to mirror some textures, which can cause problems.  Interesting article here.  It is also suggested that games that were written with the 2GB cap in mind often have bugs that affect the addressing of higher memory space.


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#23 MontyMM

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 11:22 AM

Just to pile on more unknowns though, we don't know how much of the texture RAM usage is the result of Windows/DX behaviour, and how much is dictated by the engine. It is conceivable that there could be Skyrim settings that reduce the amount of data cached in RAM. One experiment I performed was with raised ugrids. Usually you would set the ugrids with a corresponding setting for exterior cells to buffer, and VRAM & memory usage goes up sharply. I tried omitting the exterior cell buffer increase to see if my SSD could serve up the data fast enough, without buffering it to RAM. I found that it could do a pretty good job - memory use went down, disk access went up, and there was a little bit of slight hitching for the loads. Now, this is all experimenting in the dark, and I'm not advocating that anyone messes with ugrids at all, but there may be settings that could reduce Skyrim's caching further.
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#24 Gyro

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 11:28 AM

Monty, I'd be willing to help you with any experiments you'd want to run.
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#25 viking

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 11:55 AM

That's an interesting experiment. I might try reducing interior/exterior cell buffers and loading the data off of a ram disk/ssd or some combination thereof. The biggest ram usage for me seems to be when entering an interior space from a larger interior space (entering breezehome from within Whiterun), because both cells seem to stay resident in memory.
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#26 MontyMM

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 03:13 PM

Monty I'd be willing to help you with any experiments you'd want to run.

Thanks Gyro, but at the moment I'm not really looking into this.  I'm pretty busy making all the patches for Semi-Automatic STEP (I was going to do it a quick way, but I've decided to do it in a more flexible way to try to suit everyone.)

I do think it's somthing worth playing with though.  Most attempts at tweaking the settings have been aimed in the opposite direction - to force Skyrim to use MORE memory, which seems desirable at first glance.  But it would be interesting to see what happens if it can be tweaked to use less.


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#27 viking

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 07:22 PM

So I ran three tests: All textures, No SRO, and No HRDLC/NO SRO using Process Explorer and GPUz for TESV Ram and system Vram monitoring respectively. I loaded a save game in the same location three times and immediately exited once it loaded. I know it isn't scientific or repeatable, but the results are surprising non the less. Full         1,702 MB VRAM 3,020 MB RAM No SRO    1,454 MB VRAM 2,560 MB RAM No HRDLC 1,357 MB VRAM 2,222 MB RAM So the math on these gives a VRAM to RAM usage of about 1:2 or 1:3. So irrespective of the exact ratio, it seems textures are mirrored in memory as part of the ~3.1GB RAM limit.  Thanks to everyone, especially MontyMM, for helping me track this down. I consider the case closed and will move forward with experimenting with DDSopt and some of the ini settings to reduce my memory usage. I'll post to this thread if I find anything interesting. MontyMM, I'm happy to help with any experiments you may decide to do with this in the future, just shoot me a PM.
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#28 JudgmentJay

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 07:53 PM

I'm very curious about your mod setup and how you can get that high physical RAM usage with default uGrids. Loading into Riverwood with every mod I have, I'm at 1859 RAM usage and 1889 VRAM usage. That's with most textures at 2048+ resolution, 2560x1600 screen resolution, and a large number of script-heavy mods outside of STEP. Even with uGrids=7, those numbers would only jump to ~2300 physical, 1950 VRAM. I have DDSOpted virtually all my textures, but that should only be 1-200mb physical/VRAM usage at best.
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#29 viking

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 08:07 PM

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But you should note that I haven't DDSopted anything besides HRDLC. I'm pretty sure the major culprits for me are Interesting NPCs and Detailed Cities, though I haven't spent much time determining memory usage of each since it sounds like a huge pain (and entirely location dependent).
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#30 Neovalen

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 08:12 PM

I find my VRAM usage to be insane as well even using only 2048 textures and pretty routinely get close to 3gb usage... this is an issue I'm struggling with myself. I've only DDSOpted the big TeX packs though so we'll see as I go along.
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