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Freeze's or CTD


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#46 phazer11

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 11:39 PM

Alright Iroha I could hug you. Thank you for asking me to check the masters I'd looked for so many more complicated solutions and it seems to have been a ghosted master. I opened up Wrye Bash (because it was easier to look at the masters there) and when I looked at SUM's masters I noticed that a mod I thought I'd properly uninstalled as I was starting my Skyrim Revisited install was listed as a master. It appears (as I haven't done a full 6 hour test yet) that Expanded Winterhold Destruction ruins was the culprit. Turns out it was still listed as a master in my Bashed Patch (which I use just to make sure all the leveled lists are taken care of) despite it (EWDR) no longer being installed. So somehow I had a ghost esm listed as a master in my rebuilt bashed patch... which apparently didn't cause problems normally but as soon as AV was involved (I guess the engine involved in the randomization) caused it to cry uncle. Go figure! So I deleted the bashed patch completely and told Wyre Bash to make a new one and so far no freezing at the spot(s) it was. Now I need to tweak some ini settings for draw distance and see if I can get some better FPS. With the Borderless Window plugin I'm able to run in 1920x1080 @ 45-53 FPS (more often 48 or so with the occasional stutter) Does anyone know the distance at which trees can be drawn without being seen? What I mean is say I'm on a cliff and I want to see the trees at the bottom of the cliff (and as far as I can see) what is the minimum setting for that? I think it is called load distance (at least that's what skyrim configurator calls it (the default setting appears to be 50000.0000) with high detail draw distance at my custom setting at 2500 (still need to toy with that). If anyone can think of anything that has an impact on performance but no real quality difference (perceptible) then I'd appreciate a post.  Is that too much text? Let me know if it needs to be put in a spoiler or something.

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#47 Iroha

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 01:18 AM

I'd looked for so many more complicated solutions and it seems to have been a ghosted master. I opened up Wrye Bash (because it was easier to look at the masters there) and when I looked at SUM's masters I noticed that a mod I thought I'd properly uninstalled as I was starting my Skyrim Revisited install was listed as a master. It appears (as I haven't done a full 6 hour test yet) that Expanded Winterhold Destruction ruins was the culprit. Turns out it was still listed as a master in my Bashed Patch (which I use just to make sure all the leveled lists are taken care of) despite it (EWDR) no longer being installed. So somehow I had a ghost esm listed as a master in my rebuilt bashed patch... which apparently didn't cause problems normally but as soon as AV was involved (I guess the engine involved in the randomization) caused it to cry uncle. Go figure! So I deleted the bashed patch completely and told Wyre Bash to make a new one and so far no freezing at the spot(s) it was.

I'm glad that you found freezing source:) Good to know about such exotic ghostmaster issue - haven't encountered it before.
Your dds opt logs looks normal. But most of textures wasn't modified, 102 of 435 if to be precise. It can mean that others already optimized. Maybe you still have unresized to 1024px normal maps.
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#48 phazer11

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 02:19 AM

No I completely redid it all the normals were resized to 1024 (though Slof's AV pack seemed to be 1024x1024 anyways) and had it optimize the 2048 textures using the 2048 max res setting on DDSOpt.

It appears that that did not completely solve the issue. I did a couple more runs and while it didn't freeze every time I past that point it always froze at before; it did freeze from time to time.
Here's the list of masters though.
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#49 Iroha

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 04:20 AM

No I completely redid it all the normals were resized to 1024 (though Slof's AV pack seemed to be 1024x1024 anyways) and had it optimize the 2048 textures using the 2048 max res setting on DDSOpt.

It appears that that did not completely solve the issue. I did a couple more runs and while it didn't freeze every time I past that point it always froze at before; it did freeze from time to time.
Here's the list of masters though.
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time to time freezing can be caused by:
1. spawning creatures with wicked AI packages/conflicts. Random. Wicked Ai packages can freeze game by themself.
2. too highres texture of some effects. I had these with unprocessed ultimate HD fire effects. Dualcasting "flames" often resulted in freeze until I resized textures. I find this strange. ASUS-GTX680-DCU2T can't handle it? No, that's the skyrim manner of working with resources. I can't blame bethesda for it - no one makes games with so high modding potential still.
3. FNIS. Howewer, if there is conflict with animations game usually CTD instead of freezing. But, I believe, in appropriate conditions modified mt_behavior.hkx can cause freeze. It doesn't mean we should throw away FNIS, only be cautious with mods that affects animations.

well, there is more, but explanations is complicated, won't help directly, and I'm sure I don't know some things.

As I see in your bosslog, 21 may you had WinterholdDestruction.esm and ExpandedWinterholdRuins.esp
Now you don't?
I don't know how for others but for me skse-alt-f4 plugin makes game crash on exit if to exit normally at least. So I deleted to evade possble stability issues. I don't use also DCF, BW plugins. Breaks immersion:D
BlackSacramentArmor brought some problems for me long ago. It was conflict with some other mod. I don't remember which.
SFO. I use basic edition, and I'm quite satisfied.
Nothing more to say. Not all mods you use are familiar to me.
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#50 phazer11

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 12:18 PM

Here's what FNIS says and I still have no idea what it means by warning (unless it's warning about the Skyrim version)
I'm using the Ultimate HD Fire Effects Med Res, SMIM Meshes and Ultimate HD Torch 1024 version. Never had a freeze using the flame spell so far. I'm using a bow (or it's in my hands) when it freezes if that makes any difference. Winterhold Destruction Ruins was completely removed weeks ago I must have been skipping over it in he list this whole time. I don't recall seeing it in BOSS but I can't find any trace of it in MO or MO's overwrite folder so I'm at a loss there. I'll do a couple registry sweeps and run CCLean again as well and see if it shows up in BOSS anymore. By Wicked AI you mean mods like SkyTEST?

#51 Setis

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 12:36 PM

2. too highres texture of some effects. I had these with unprocessed ultimate HD fire effects. Dualcasting "flames" often resulted in freeze until I resized textures. I find this strange. ASUS-GTX680-DCU2T can't handle it? No, that's the skyrim manner of working with resources. I can't blame bethesda for it - no one makes games with so high modding potential still.

Oooo, I'm going to have to try resizing those textures then.  I've been getting a lot of freezing lately when shouting fire breath, I bet that might be it.  Did you resize them to 1024?
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#52 phazer11

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 03:33 PM

Have you tried the 1024 version of the mod?

#53 Iroha

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 04:02 PM

Have you tried the 1024 version of the mod?

as I recall there is only 2048px(med res), 4096px(high res).

By "wicked AI" I mean mods with custom AI packages. Who knows how well it done. if it's use many skse functions it potentially can delay execution of other scripts, which can be vital for the moment.
Your fnis log is normal.
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#54 Aiyen

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 04:24 PM

There also is a vanilla resolution of HD Fire effects. The Medium resolution one should be usable for all but the most ancient of PC´s.

#55 Iroha

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 04:36 PM

There also is a vanilla resolution of HD Fire effects.
The Medium resolution one should be usable for all but the most ancient of PC´s.

vanilla is 512px. medium 2048. wide step:)
Phazer, I saw winterholddestruction.esm and ExpandedWinterholdRuins.esp in your bosslog attached to post. Check your plugins.txt and loadorder.txt under \ModOrganizer\profiles\Skyrim Revisited\
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#56 Setis

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 07:08 PM

So much for that idea. Still freezing on shouting fire breath frequently. :(
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#57 Iroha

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 07:26 PM

So much for that idea. Still freezing on shouting fire breath frequently. :(

try to optimize and resize Burn Freeze Shock effects(if more than 1024), Deadly spell impacts too.
Also I must say that if you will use firebreath not in combat just for training:) - probability of freeze will be less:)
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#58 Setis

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 08:31 PM

So much for that idea. Still freezing on shouting fire breath frequently. :(

try to optimize and resize Burn Freeze Shock effects(if more than 1024), Deadly spell impacts too.
Also I must say that if you will use firebreath not in combat just for training:) - probability of freeze will be less:)

That would go against the whole concept of my character currently though :) (Ka Po' Tun)

It's not just fire breath either, I switched to frost breath for a bit to see if perhaps it was just fire, and got a freeze (heh) on that too.  Just now I froze before I even got fire breath off (I was in mid-inhale when it froze up, with a draugr hitting me with frostbite).  I already took out the DSI esp long ago and just left the textures, I guess I'll try optimizing those too.  Doesn't seem like I get any random freezes anymore, they're pretty much always when entering combat.

Actually I just looked, and I didn't even have BFS checked at the time. It looks like I do have the DSI high textures, so dropping that to medium. Stupid Skyrim.
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#59 phazer11

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 11:55 PM

If that doesn't help try decreasing the amount of decals your game is rendering. I always advocate using skyrim configurator to change settings it usually gives a good preview of what to expect from the setting. As far as the Winderhold Destruction Ruins goes as soon as I removed the bashed patch both the esp and esm disappeared from my boss log (which it was still in as of late Thursday) oddly enough; weird ****. I also think I found the other culprit my mannequin mod (MLLY) which needs to be disabled until after character creation (I thought it would just make your character look weird if enabled during creation). Now I need to fix performance so it's 50 fps or higher so I can hopefully eliminate this occasional stutter.

#60 phazer11

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 12:55 AM

I still need some performance advice. Also weird texture issue I guess...
I'll see this and after a while it goes away (I think), or fixes itself (I think) either way it's weird.
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