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Yet more ctds and freezing


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#61 7hr08ik

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 04:19 PM

For reference My latest Mod list
My DDSopt choices
My Skyrim ini
Skyrimprefs.ini
The known Freeze points
The main mods i can remember removing

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#62 Garfink

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 02:42 AM

I've a very similar mod setup to you, there ARE some differences but the sort of crashes and freezes you are describing are very similar to mine.  I can get a fairly reproducible freeze if I start with alternate start at riverwood inn and run out back up the hill towards the standing stones and use fire magic to kill the wolves that spawn near the road on the way & killing the bandits that guard the mine on the way and if that doesn't stress the system out I will keep going up to Helgen towards the starting cave and flame the wolves on the way there.  Kills my game almost every time.

I think I can categorize my crashes even better: I am getting the sort of crash where if I load a save game outside I am much more likely to get infinite load screens, it's randomish, sometimes it loads fine and if I save in a small cell, the game loads more reliably. I also notice that the game is more likely to crash in combat, especially spell casting. The game is more likely to crash if I install any new mods on top of the ton of mods I have. Even though I can force/stress the game to crash, the game can crash any where, but mostly outdoor, dungeons tend to be better. I can sometime play for an hour without any crashes but it's rarely more than an hour. I've crashed when I click "M" to show the map (once or twice), I have crashed during quicksaves. All these rather Random mish/mash of crashes, leads me to suspect a RAM issue, as it's the only explanation that can explain all the crashes. I am certain that after I discovered how to compress my textures/normals my crash problem has improved markedly.

I have reduced all my textures to 1024x1024 (my mobo isn't as powerful as some, its almost 2 years old now, overclock i7 3Ghz OC to 3.6Ghz and a Nvidia 580 Gtx with only 1.5G of vram), but I am going to try reducing the other textures you have further reduced to see if that helps.

Also I am going to get rid of the Z-fighting stuff and stop using SMIM to see how things go.... then disable frost/fire effect (I am already using deadly spell impart low resolution!) then step, by step remove AIMP, Dual Sheath Redux and see how things go.  I will report back here.

NOTE: To disable SMIM you'll need to disable the following patches too:
Tobes Highres Textures 1_2b SMIM Patch
AM-SMIM Patch &
Wearable Lanterns SMIM Patch

I do use Skyre, ASIS, frostfall, wet & cold, realistic needs and diseases, immersive creatures and skytest, I am trying to avoid having to stop using any of these because I love them too much.  I haven't installed automatic variants, not looking for trouble and I am not sure how much different color cows will add to my game!  I rather more bandit camps!  (If only I can install Sands of Time, buggy as all hell when used with the other mods on my list, makes the game hard as hell, but I love how it changes the game! I love especially the part where you can adjust reinforcements for spawns to make battle encounters very unpredictable!)

Off on a tangent, skip if you are not interested (following 3 paragraphs), I talk a little about the non-step, non-SR mods that I use that increase immersion for me, some interactions are new for most people so you may find it interesting, in any case I would be interested to hear anyone's opinion about their compatibility though:

"Other mods that I am using and really really love, that isn't on the SR list are:  dynamic difficulty, dynamic things, more realistic loot, autosave manager (I turn off all the skyrim.ini autosave features and just use this) & bounty gold.  I think dynamic difficulty is fairly stable as I've never seen a reference to it in the papyrus logs, its a great mod that adjusts the difficulty dynamically if I am getting killed over and over again, really works (remember to turn on: ignore stealth kills or else your assassin character will get slaughtered whenever he or she gets discovered because the difficulty has ramped up too high after a series of successful stealth kills) .  The mod that probably causes most script stress is dynamic things, but once again, I don't see any papyrus errors when I check, so I think it's safe, I do decrease the distance that things are checked for in the MCM menus to further decrease script stress.  Once you have used dynamic things, you'll wonder how you lived without it!  The fact that you can chop a tree down for fire wood and search wood piles for wood and search bushes for deadwood is SUPER immersive and a life saver a lot of the time. The last time I died from the cold right NEXT to a pile of firewood was the last straw for me, this mod fixed that! I usually have frostfall's cold affect on 1.6x to really make things hairy! 

I really love the random loot that I get from realistic loot, just makes more sense that bandits and other adventurers are carrying more than just their boots and weapons in my opinion.  Great mod that shouldn't cause any problems.  Also makes the game a tiny bit easier... but it far from offset all the other difficulty mods that is running at the same time, so the loot doesn't unbalance the game.  You'll have more scrolls and potions though... but with ASIS and Skyre and HLE... you'll need them!  Also makes them almost impossible battles more possible with tactical use of the extra loot you have.

The other mod that I like using is Professions, I don't care for the actual "profession" part of the mod, which you can pretty much all but turn off via the MCM, BUT the mod allows you to adjust and allow game-time passing when doing tanning, smithing, skinning animals (works just like hunterborn without the hassles), haggling, chopping wood, mining, cooking, alchemy-ing etc.  Really plays well with realistic needs and disease & frostfall.  Makes the game super immersive.  (Tip: You will need to decrease the default "how much time passes for the activity":  by 50% to 75% or else time passes too quickly during these activities and you go thirsty/hungry/cold too quickly.)  The first time when you go to the smithy to smith a load of stuff and finishing when the day becomes night, you will thank me for the satisfication you'll get for a hard days work done!  Things like smithing feels real now, rather than just a menu option that occurs in frozen time!" Before this mod, I used to increase my hunger and thirst rate in RN&D but with this mod installed the default settings are perfect, I do increase the time it takes for cheese & veges to rot to 14 days and 10 days respectively to make it more realistic. Now: you will run out of food in a realistic way and finding food in a bandit camp will bring you much more joy!!

One other mod I use is the Become a Bard mod, which if you want to be a bard, makes for great immersion, makes all them inns and taverns useful again, not just for the bed! Other immersion mods I've tried and have decided it's not worth the bother are the encumbrance mods, just makes the game frustrating, once you are frustrated you start installing make "things" lighter mods... then you wonder why bother in the first place! I've found the "unrealistic" carrying capacity in the vanilla game with the "unrealistic" weight of potions, ingredients & weapons, balance each other out quite realistically!

One thing I can contribute to this conversation for my setup anyway:

In the past before I started meddling with my mods again, the setting that had made a difference was decreasing the shadows further to 512, I use an ENB and even though the shadows were slightly blurry the ENB enhancements to the shadows makes the shadows pleasing to the eye anyway even at 512 or 256, this and turning off the shadows on the grass made a significant improvement to my fps and stability (without much difference to the visuals).  Also increasing the grass density number from 70 to 128 with grass on steroids installed (vanilla goldielock version if you need to save on more memory or SFO version if you system can handle it.) also helped by keeping the visuals of dense grass but helping with performance.  Interestingly it was never the ENB that causes instability, it decreases the fps but even with it off, the game will crash when it wants to at the same spots. Makes sense since the ENB shouldn't add to the texture memory used and in turn shouldn't increase RAM usage.

As long as I've written an essay anyhow, I can make one more irrelevant recommendation, it took me forever to find the perfect ENB for me and I just want to share (its my first ever post on this forum! So give me some slack!): Try Unreal Cinema ENB, it's unbelievable, makes the game so cinematic, I've tried all the top 30 endorsed ENB and this is the one I'll be playing with for a long long time to come. It's perfect. Keeps the vanilla colors scheme mostly (no over saturation which I don't like), with a little more sepia, the letterbox vignetting & grain just works, even though I hated both for other ENBs. Works well with RLO, amazingly well, I did adjust the dungeon brightness up a little in the ENB settings though. The dungeons are perfect now. The DOF is slow like a camera lens, I would normally hate this too but it seems right for some reason for this ENB (you can use another DOF to your liking of course). Even though it says it's not a "realism" ENB, I think its by far the most "realistic" ENB I've tried, in the context that it looks just like a movie. Performance isn't bad either, I get 32 fps on my old setup in most places, so it's going to run fine on newer mobos. (Come to think of it: the film-grain effect actually help mask much of the 1024x1024 lowish textures that I am using, making them much more realistic and masking any blur that I get when things come up close) One other thing: don't use the enbAA as this turned my game into a slide show, use the cheaper edgeAA dlls instead.
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#63 Garfink

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 06:48 AM

Oh my lord.....  I seem to have fixed my freezes!!!  

Only time will tell if it's all working... but it looks very promising though!

Here is what I did:

I uninstalled SMIM & its patches, Burn Freeze Shock and Deadly spell impact AND reset all the Z-fighting ini fixes, then I booted up the game:  CRASH CITY around Riverwood!

I then proceeded to compressed the textures as suggested above by 7hr08ik to 1024x512, reapplied Burn Freeze Shock AND deadly spell impact and IT WORKED!!  I also got a 2 fps increase.

What I did next was REINSTALL SMIM and its patches and even though I loss my 2 fps increase, my game seems to remain stable.  

There you have it....  It seems to be textures too large for my setup, that were the problem all along!!!  

To be honest, I can't really see a huge difference in the graphics after decreasing the normal maps during normal play any how!  

Hope that helps others!  I am going to slowly introduce more mods back into my game now... and cause more problems!!
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#64 Garfink

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 12:52 PM

Quick update: Darn it my game still crashed after a 15 minutes or so... so I went through the Vanilla, dawnguard, hearthfire, dragonborn, HRDLC textures and converted all of them from 1024x1042 to 1024x512 and that really did seemed to do the trick! I just played for 2 hours around, in & out of Solitude and no crash as yet, got into a few spell battles and still good. Loaded and saved a few times as well. Fingers crossed.
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#65 Copywrite85

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 01:22 AM

which mods did you run at this "All textures DDSopt`d at 2048x2048 with normals ran at 1024x1024".
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#66 EssArrBee

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 01:36 AM

I don't think you can covert a 1k x 1k to 1k x 512. I'd imagine in your DDSopt log that all the textures 1024x1024 are now 512x512. I'm not sure that the game would right look right if you make 1:1 textures into 2:1 textures.

#67 Aiyen

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 05:20 AM

There is technically nothing that prevents 2:1 scale textures if you want them that way. DDSopt can also do it just put the constrant to 1k X 512 and it will resize them into that. It will create odd stretching etc though since then the UV maps will be all wrong.

#68 7hr08ik

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 07:20 AM

which mods did you run at this "All textures DDSopt`d at 2048x2048 with normals ran at 1024x1024".


Erm, its kinda in the words.....ALL TEXTURES. I ran the entire MO folder at 2048x2048 and half normals, then i ran DDSopt at the smaller settings for the specified mods.
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#69 Garfink

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 11:24 AM

Just a quick update: I upgraded my old 580 gtx to a Titan (got like 180 fps all the texture packs without ENB, it's NUTS!!), as you do, and was able to upgrade my compressed textures back to STEP and SR Hi-res stuff, I noted a few of interesting things that I like to share: After stuffing around a little, I was able to install immersive creatures & various mods like Radiant & Inconsequential NPC that added more NPCs to the game (this previously killed my game fairly consistently) and I even with all this I got the game VERY stable again... I had 2 problems during the process: I was getting crashes during combat: Problem solved by using ASIS AI module instead of the Skyre & ERSO 30 combo, I don't know if using JUST Skyre EnemyAI will cause issues, I don't know because I didn't really test it, I went back to using ASIS AI and I am happy with its performance in game, the AI is smart enough compared to vanilla. If it ain't broken don't fix it, especially with Skyrim MODDING! Amen! I was getting freezes during crafting and buying and selling: This was an easy and obvious one to fix, I resized the aMidianBorn Book of Silence and Elven and JaySuS swords and Art of Magicka, Immersive Armor to 1024x1024 instead of the default 2048x2048 (there maybe performance files for these mods, I don't know because I didn't check, it was easy enough to DDSopt the high res ones I had) and problem hasn't reappeared, simple texture size causing vRAM & RAM issues again. The obvious clue was the problem was more likely to occur when the inventory list was large and I was scrolling through the list quickly. The problem was too random to be a crafting listing problem, had to be a RAM problem. AND YES, this was happening on the cream of the crop titan card, so this could happen to you, so I hope this helps someone! Caveat: I am pushing the the card with lots of environmental mods and the killer SOMBER ENB mod in all its glory (modified with a DOF effect file of my liking.). I was running the Skyrim Performance Monitor and it didn't register ANY VRAM or RAM spikes during the crash, I was running around 2.3 to 2.8 Gb RAM/VRAM all the way (Papyrus had no notable repeating errors), I suspect that browsing through the inventory quickly causes either the VRAM/RAM to spike quickly that it doesn't register on SPM or that it simple causes some internal instability. Whatever the reason, it worked for me. Next thing to test out: All them lovely parallax stuff & hi-poly rocks that is coming out!! I suspect these may push the RAM department from what I understand... we'll see... Also Deadly encounters: Sands of Time... love hate relationship. There is a new version that apparently has super optimized scripting (compared to previous versions anyway... whatever), I am probably going to test this out for an hour or so to see how it works now. ONE OTHER TIP: To aid with quickly checking and troubleshooting I recommend deactivating dual shealth redux so you can skyproc quicker, reinstall it once you are happen with everything (good luck) AND you intend on playing a dual wield character. (I will intermittently update here... not sure if this is helpful to anyone.)
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#70 Copywrite85

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 12:46 PM

Ok, I am still getting freezes and ctds outside and when fighting, seems to ctd when I get attacked by wolves etc.  I think I will start resizing textures.  I really hope this fixes my problem because I have tried everything else. The strange thing is I'm not hitting the 3.1 ceiling and I'm stilling getting issues? Weird.
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#71 phazer11

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 02:00 PM

Well Copywrite have you noticed any object "popping" into you view range at like a delayed rate? Second those freezes in the wilderness are the HARDEST issue to rule out because so many mods change those areas. Just in Skyrim Revisited alone I can think of.... 1,2,3,4,5,6.... alot of mods that could be causing the issue. I think you said you optimized your exterior textures to 1k right I think you did I can't read back through the thread again. Anyways if not do so. Then make sure Automatic Variants textures have been optimized. Off the top of my head the most likely culprits (or a combination thereof) are Frostfall, Climates of Tamriel, SkyTEST, Immersive Creatures, some of the third person mods like Player Headtracking, and a few others. Of course it could just be the game's supposed inherent instability, since as others have said Vanilla is unstable in and of itself (I don't buy it as I never crashed with vanilla). As always save often and be patient padawan.

#72 7hr08ik

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 03:34 PM

Best thing i can think of is, just bite the bullet and remove AV. I dont use it myself. With all the extra creatures and things added to the outdoors, as phazer11 says, its ALOT. I just found that having a shed load of extra textures and a complex mod running just to decide which of the 13 textures to use on that 1 wolf (of which there are 5800 in the area) to use. The benefit of not using it far outweighed the benifit of having a few different coloured creatures
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#73 Copywrite85

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 03:58 PM

Actually I have tried a crap load of other fixes but the ONLY mods I have brought down to 1k are the bethesda Hi resses and/the dlc textures/the SRO textures.  I have not touched anything else.  I am organizing a crap load of back up folders for textures optimizations as we speak.  I have put in all the really small texture folders the mods according to this threads list.  All other mods that are large im going to optimize to 1k 1k.  Hopefully this fixes this.  I literally cannot stand restarting my game anymore after I think I have everything fixed so...I dunno hoping against hope right now.  Like I said earlier I am usually ctding or freezing around 2.5k ram...but it seems like unoptomized textures just cause ctds on principle.  When I check my papyrus logs it doesn't say VM thawing or freezing...I can only assume this means its not scripts that are ruining my game.  It never stops...
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#74 7hr08ik

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 04:06 PM

Even DDSopting mods to the size they already are can help. The amount of textures that arn`t optimized fully is amazing. Try doing all of your mods at 2048x2048 first. (it wont upscale anything just sets the MAX size to 2048x2048) Do "The big 3" at 1024x1024 - SRO, Skyrim HD, Serious HD, Failing that, do your mods with half sized normals. Honestly. you wont notice any difference in quality, but you will notice a dramatic drop in RAM usage
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#75 Copywrite85

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 04:06 PM

To optimize automatic variants what I would do is copy the relevant folders from mod organizer/mods; optimize them then replace with the new textures right?
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