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External Freezing/VM Thawing


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#1 Copywrite85

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 12:10 PM

Well I've come along way modding Skyrim but this issue has been the omnipresent base of the pyramid.  External freezes no matter what, it's just a matter of time; who knows how many sources are contributing to this or if it's even fully curable with a modded Skyrim.  The weird thing is I have hardly changed my load order at all since creating my last new game, yet the freezes outside started happening a few solid days of playing (albeit I was forced to change nvidia settings, enb settings, ini settings to increase my performance on the way.  This is probably the last thread I'll be making. Lets share ideas on stability in the wilds, papyrus settings, efficacy of hardware in regards to a modded Skyrim etc.  

Issue I am currently facing:  Performance is very jumpy and I get repeated freezes outside of cities and dungeons.  I don't get any ctd's at all, just freezes, exclusively outdoors in the wilds.  These freezes happen when I come into view of a number of enemies (big wolf packs or when engaging a dragon etc), When fighting in general (I'm not sure if there's a correlation between magic use or not), or when simply travelling (I have a suspicion convenient horses contributes to the instability).  I am noticing that my Papyrus sais VM freezing when I check my crashes; this must mean it's script related...right?  I don't really understand papyrus logs and I'm hoping to get some help interpreting.

Issues I have solved:
-poor performance in dungeons
-poor performance in cities
-numerous ctd's on start ups
-invisible creatures
-ctd on magic
-ctd on load screen
-infinite load screen
-inconsistencies between skyre/immersive weapons and armours
-numerous mods not working
-random ctd's
-issues with ddsopt
-Ram related ctd's
-missing textures for creatures
-random missing textures through out world
-invisible creatures

Advice I can offer:
-Don't assume lowering settings will increase your performance (I see no significant performance difference between using Realvision performance enb vs Realvision full enb).
-The script curing tweak does help but its not bullet proof
-I have a feeling heavily editing your ini can break your saves (I tried using ini settings downloaded from nexus and I could no longer continue my save)
-Optimizing the textures for wet and cold, burn freeze shock, deadly impacts etc. helps with ctds and freezes
-Leave water textures alone with Ddsopt 
-Really do research to find the best optimization settings for the textures from certain mods
-Ddsopt makes a world of difference, don't settle for any of the less advanced texture editors on nexus, reference this and the other step site on its proper usage
-Pretty sure any type of overclock contributes to freezes
-While I am currently using ini settings that supposedly utilize more of my cpu cores, I cant say I've seen a performance difference in game or any indication of it working on monitors
-I get zero benefit from running in windowed mode, try running windowed and full screen and see what works best for you

Ideas I have to fix my problem:
-They were two mods from Step Neovalen that had the option to use either an esp or esm version of the mod.  I know one was Immersive creatures, cannot remember the other one.  I selected esp version for both, maybe if I changed to esm it would fix my external freezes? (also could this be done safely without ruining my save?)]
-There is a Skyre script fix that I tried before, all it did was break my game.  Maybe I put it in the wrong load order?  If anyone knows how to properly implement this when using Skyre reproccer and other combat mods please let me know 
-Remove mods like Skytest, Automatic variants, Wet and Cold, Realistic needs and diseases, climates of tamriel, immersive creatures, dragon combat overhaul etc (LAST RESORT!).
-Yet do more &(*&^ing ini editing/testing (LAST RESORT!)
-Leave avast off
-Set steam to offline mode
-Using EVGA step up program to upgrade my 680 to a 780 (I have noticed when using any enb my gpu usage is essentially stuck at 99% load...maybe with a stronger card the Skyrim engine would be more at ease or something?  I know that's a stretch but hopefully it helps.

All my relevant Info:

ENB Info:
I am not using ENBoost because as far as I can tell its already included in my ENB 0.197 Realvision Full package. I have set desired FPS to 60 and turned enb AF off.

Nvidia Driver tweaks:
Negative lod set to clamp, Correct AA gamma set to off, AF set to 16, AA set to let application handle, Triple buffering set to on.

Active Mod Files:


Dxdiag:


Skyrim.ini


Skyrimprefs.ini:

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#2 Copywrite85

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 12:11 PM

My Boss log:

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#3 Copywrite85

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 12:22 PM

My Papyrus log (had to erase a very large portion for it to fit in message):

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#4 Aiyen

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 12:39 PM

First thing I would do is add as few additions to the .ini files as possible... and tune down the grass settings. Grass requires shadows, shadows require CPU cycles to calculate. All those CPU, memory, mipmap etc. lines you got... Do you have a reason for having them there or have you just read that other people with other setups have tried it and created wonderland? Also the water settings.. they make no sense since you use WATER... I dare you do show me any noticeable difference between 512, and 1024 with that mod on. The list goes on. In general in my tests I have found no reason to have most of those on... no noticeable visible changes, and no measurable performance increases... so why have them? They all contribute to make the game engine work more for little to no gain. Freezes are most likely due to the game engine trying to handle too much.... and there are plenty of places where you can optimize. As for mods... why use destructible bottles? It adds almost nothing to the game, and cause yet another great compatibility cause. Also you are using Encounter Zones and in general change the spawning points, and yet you have SKYTEST installed that is also just a recipe for issues. Also you have both BSF and Enhanced blood, which with increased spawns means even more script use that you might not even notice since it is just a random wolf hunting a rabbit etc. In general too many script intensive mods. Try to ask yourself if you REALLY need certain mods. Stability > Quantity after all.

#5 Copywrite85

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 12:52 PM

First thing I would do is add as few additions to the .ini files as possible... and tune down the grass settings. Grass requires shadows, shadows require CPU cycles to calculate. All those CPU, memory, mipmap etc. lines you got... Do you have a reason for having them there or have you just read that other people with other setups have tried it and created wonderland?
Also the water settings.. they make no sense since you use WATER... I dare you do show me any noticeable difference between 512, and 1024 with that mod on. The list goes on.

In general in my tests I have found no reason to have most of those on... no noticeable visible changes, and no measurable performance increases... so why have them? They all contribute to make the game engine work more for little to no gain.

Freezes are most likely due to the game engine trying to handle too much.... and there are plenty of places where you can optimize.

As for mods... why use destructible bottles? It adds almost nothing to the game, and cause yet another great compatibility cause. Also you are using Encounter Zones and in general change the spawning points, and yet you have SKYTEST installed that is also just a recipe for issues.
Also you have both BSF and Enhanced blood, which with increased spawns means even more script use that you might not even notice since it is just a random wolf hunting a rabbit etc.

In general too many script intensive mods. Try to ask yourself if you REALLY need certain mods. Stability > Quantity after all.

Very good feedback; what I will look most into is encounter zones and skytest.  I really think your on to something with that one.  Honestly most of the mods I have on my list are jsut due to following neovalens suggestions with his list.  But the conflicting spawn points, the feeling I get from my freezes in game...that may just be it.  I will start researching a safe way to remove encounter zones without breaking my save.
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#6 Copywrite85

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 05:09 PM

-Converted my custom inis to neovalen step inis (performance actually seems allot smoother outside) -Got rid of asis encounter zones -now Im ctding (not sure if its because of ini change or getting rid of encounter zones)
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#7 phazer11

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 05:29 PM

Hi again copywrite... Please post your mod list as it is now and also are these CTD's occuring even after you start a new game (After removing encounter zones and the ini changes, and other mod changes)?  If you aren't then start one and play for a while if there is no CTD you're good if there is come back and report.

#8 Aiyen

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 05:34 PM

Yeah I doubt you are going to be able to save a save (I know...) with that many items in it if you make changes. Especially stuff like spawning locations etc. But I have very little experience in terms of doing stuff like that so you might. Also glad to see that simplifying the ini´s is having a positive effect. One would only figure as much.

#9 Copywrite85

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 05:57 PM

Hi again copywrite... Please post your mod list as it is now and also are these CTD's occuring even after you start a new game (After removing encounter zones and the ini changes and other mod changes)?  If you aren't then start one and play for a while if there is no CTD you're good if there is come back and report.

Hey man, lol starting to think I'll never actually get to play through a game.  Ill start a new one and see if things are ok. Maybe I'll wait until my 780 comes in.


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#10 Copywrite85

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 05:58 PM

Anyone have any experience with Skyre Script Fix? Also when I reference my papyrus logs before crashes it seems like Moonlight tales is always the last one being processed. Does this mean its a problem?
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#11 Copywrite85

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 07:54 PM

Heres my mod list as is. I've managed to get Skyre script fix to work by putting directly behind Skyre Main. Other than that I have removed encounter zones. Game is still broken but I have not started a new game yet. Active Mod Files:

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#12 phazer11

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 11:15 PM

My brain is fried atm otherwise I'd tell you more than "looking at your mod list makes my head hurt more!"

#13 Copywrite85

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 12:34 AM

Started a new game, played for about an hour until I got an in combat ctd fighting bandits in the woods. Yes I realize I have allot of esps but most of them are patches and multi-esp mods. Take your time man, I'm in no rush.
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#14 phazer11

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 01:33 PM

Ok so a lot of things I would change. Bear with me it will take a while to edit my post.
Those are the mods I think are going to cause you problems. I'd need more info on your patch names to know which is for which mod. The race height mods get rid of. I'd do away with SkyTEST too sadly. Unique region names nix. Destructible bottles should be thrown into the last century by a cannon. I wouldn't use the dragon combat overhauls. I think Antz in my Pantz adds too much. Tribunal masks and robes... do you need them? Get rid of Player Headtracking. The only mod like headtracking I'd use is AutoPV. Your moon size .esp's can be gotten rid of by merging the records from the .esps into your general patch. You can free up several slots by using the combined Book Covers Skyrim .esp and using that file for the TES5Edits from Skyrim Revisited and Iroha's SkyRe add-on. Get rid of ASIS, the loading screen mods, and the ABT plugins. Also I would try to use SUM and use the merge plugin setting (I don't care if you have problems with it tinker until you get it to work) it solves alot of problems with skyproc patching. That's all I can come up with for now there's almost definitely more but... Also again this is just my personal advice you don't have to nix the mods I said however I think alot of the ones you added like ASIS and Dragon Combat Overhaul, Immersive Patrols etc. are your problems as I have not personally used them in my setups as ASIS is outdated and the others just seem like compatibility nightmares. You can wait for someone else's opinion several of the super mods have used those mods.

#15 Copywrite85

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 04:30 PM

Ok so a lot of things I would change. Bear with me it will take a while to edit my post.



Those are the mods I think are going to cause you problems. I'd need more info on your patch names to know which is for which mod.
The race height mods get rid of. I'd do away with SkyTEST too sadly. Unique region names nix. Destructible bottles should be thrown into the last century by a cannon. I wouldn't use the dragon combat overhauls. I think Antz in my Pantz adds too much. Tribunal masks and robes... do you need them?

Get rid of Player Headtracking. The only mod like headtracking I'd use is AutoPV. Your moon size .esp's can be gotten rid of by merging the records from the .esps into your general patch. You can free up several slots by using the combined Book Covers Skyrim .esp and using that file for the TES5Edits from Skyrim Revisited and Iroha's SkyRe add-on. Get rid of ASIS, the loading screen mods, and the ABT plugins. Also I would try to use SUM and use the merge plugin setting (I don't care if you have problems with it tinker until you get it to work) it solves alot of problems with skyproc patching.

That's all I can come up with for now there's almost definitely more but...
Also again this is just my personal advice you don't have to nix the mods I said however I think alot of the ones you added like ASIS and Dragon Combat Overhaul, Immersive Patrols etc. are your problems as I have not personally used them in my setups as ASIS is outdated and the others just seem like compatibility nightmares. You can wait for someone else's opinion several of the super mods have used those mods.

I have nixed Skyrim script fix and managed to play today outside for an hour+, ofcourse I know I need to do allot more testing to see if that was the bad seed.  Thank you for the direction provided Very hesitant to get rid of asis, dragon combat and immersive patrols though...if anyone has more input pls write.
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