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Bethesda's Curveballs


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#1 Bealdwine

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 05:24 AM


They must be finding a lot of bugs. I think wrinkly has had 3 or 4 hopeful time tables for release.


In looking at the Wrye Bash forum on Beth, it looks like 1.5 has thrown them a curveball by changing the structure of update.esm. As I read it, they think it is the killcams.


What is with Bethesda? For the last 3 games (at least!) - Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallout 3 + New Vegas - the mod community has fixed bugs, improved looks, and increased the popularity, reputation and longevity of each one enormously. Yet it seems now that there is no communication from Beth to even give some consideration or a headsup on Update changes (other than a short beta phase) or provide some dialog to help the major mod teams prepare for changes. It's really starting to tick me off as I would never have played their games for half as long as I have without the modders out there!
/rant off :blush:
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#2 MontyMM

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 05:46 AM

I'm posting my reply to Bealdwine here, so as I don't take the other thread off topic. I just wanted to agree with the point that you made about Bethesda. The modding community works hard and maintains interest (and I'm sure to some degree, sales) in their products in a way their marketing department could never hope to achieve. I find it gob smacking how little consideration they show. If I were part of Bethesda, I would seriously propose that a member of the staff had at least a part-time responsibility to 'sit on the board' of the modding community. I don't just say that as wishing-on-a-star - I think they miss a real business opportunity by not building a stronger relationship with the community. Aside from a lack of concern, it's a lack of imagination.
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#3 z929669

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 11:48 AM

I'm posting my reply to Bealdwine here, so as I don't take the other thread off topic.

I just wanted to agree with the point that you made about Bethesda. The modding community works hard and maintains interest (and I'm sure to some degree, sales) in their products in a way their marketing department could never hope to achieve. I find it gob smacking how little consideration they show.

If I were part of Bethesda, I would seriously propose that a member of the staff had at least a part-time responsibility to 'sit on the board' of the modding community. I don't just say that as wishing-on-a-star - I think they miss a real business opportunity by not building a stronger relationship with the community. Aside from a lack of concern, it's a lack of imagination.


I agree, and I still don't trust Bethesda's business motivations (or ANYONE'S business motivations for that matter)... they tend to veer towards selfishness or at least a 'convenient' ignorance. They can even be downright hostile just as a crowd of fanatics can trample others to death as they greedily rush to obtain some meaningless material thing.

#4 Bealdwine

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 12:34 PM

I think it is the natural tendency of any organisation to want to maintain (obsessive) control of their product - after all it is what makes them their daily bread. I totally agree with MontyMM's view "Aside from a lack of concern, it's a lack of imagination" and I believe it is only really showing now because previously with Morrowind & Oblivion, Bethesda abdicated responsibility for the games fairly early on to concentrate on The Next Big Thing, so the work of the mod community was insignificant to them, and they may have actually thought it was the merits of the vanilla game that kept the sales running :P This time they have decided to run with the ball and see what extra attention on their part will do for profits... but they have no real conception of the fact that their user base are used to their 'product' becoming essentially public domain - an idea that every manufacturer would consider anathama! Unless they have the imagination and savvy to support the modders as a resource, Bethesda will inevitably continue to accidentally, or deliberately, mess things up. With the advent of the Steam Workshop it is obvious that someone has spotted the relationship between the mod community and the game successes BUT the organisation still cannot concieve of the prospect of 'letting go', and abdicating control to the end user (because they see no direct profit in doing that), so they will inevitably make a pigs ear of the whole thing. The best we can hope for is that they bung out a couple of DLC, get bored with the whole thing and bugger off to make Fallout 4 ;)
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#5 venkman781

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 12:46 PM

The best we can hope for is that they bung out a couple of DLC, get bored with the whole thing and bugger off to make Fallout 4 ;)


+1 for that, Bealdwine
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#6 stoppingby4now

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 01:08 PM

To semi-quote Dogma... Bethesda Developer: "You know, here's what I don't get. You now for a fact that great modders exist. You've been in their presence. You claim to support them. Yet you keep having us throw them curve balls with no warning." Bethesda Management: "I just like to @#$% with the modders, man. I just love it. I love to keep those guys on their toes."
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#7 z929669

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 02:20 PM

If anything though, I see them taking hold of the modding principle even more selfishly and strongly as their business leads more appreciably grasp the opportunity that modding expansion brings. They claim legal ownership of anything that a modder creates, after all. If they are demonstrating this level of 'lack of imagination', then there are surely other things that certain of their leadership have also not grasped, and profit is the (almost) singular driving force ...

Hate to be a stick in the mud here, but there is just so much ... mud :wacko:

I hope that I am just being paranoid...

To semi-quote Dogma...

Bethesda Developer: "You know, here's what I don't get. You now for a fact that great modders exist. You've been in their presence. You claim to support them. Yet you keep having us throw them curve balls with no warning."
Bethesda Management: "I just like to @#$% with the modders, man. I just love it. I love to keep those guys on their toes."


:lol:

#8 Bealdwine

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 05:30 AM

If anything though, I see them taking hold of the modding principle even more selfishly and strongly as their business leads more appreciably grasp the opportunity that modding expansion brings. They claim legal ownership of anything that a modder creates, after all. If they are demonstrating this level of 'lack of imagination', then there are surely other things that certain of their leadership have also not grasped, and profit is the (almost) singular driving force ...

Hate to be a stick in the mud here, but there is just so much ... mud :wacko:

I hope that I am just being paranoid...


To semi-quote Dogma...

Bethesda Developer: "You know, here's what I don't get. You now for a fact that great modders exist. You've been in their presence. You claim to support them. Yet you keep having us throw them curve balls with no warning."
Bethesda Management: "I just like to @#$% with the modders, man. I just love it. I love to keep those guys on their toes."


:lol:


Don't apologise zMan :) When you have been around the games industry - whether solo or MMO games - for long enough paranoia becomes a perfectly valid viewpoint as applied to game publishers :P

Personally I would like to do a Douglas Adams and send all the accountants in to space... how DID the button counters get to rule the world anyway? :wallbash:
(I humbly apologise for the above if any of my friends here happen to be accountants and I sincerely mean that, sincerely, honest)
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#9 stoppingby4now

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 09:48 AM

Lawyers first. Then they can't prosecute. :P
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#10 Bealdwine

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 11:20 AM

Lawyers first. Then they can't prosecute. :P


Ah yes, the joys of American litigation ;) We haven't 'quite' got that silly over the pond, but we seem to be working on it.

So agreed, lawyers, accountants and hairdressers please board your ships for relocation.
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#11 MontyMM

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 12:57 PM

Pretty much anything that resembles a corporate structure really. We're like a techno-hippie commune - we should build ourselves a geodesic dome. With fiber-optic broadband, naturally.
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#12 z929669

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 02:07 PM


Lawyers first. Then they can't prosecute. :P


Ah yes, the joys of American litigation ;) We haven't 'quite' got that silly over the pond, but we seem to be working on it.

So agreed, lawyers, accountants and hairdressers please board your ships for relocation.


Don't forget the politicians... they are responsible for the former lots.

Pretty much anything that resembles a corporate structure really. We're like a techno-hippie commune - we should build ourselves a geodesic dome. With fiber-optic broadband, naturally.


... and recycling and hydroponics ...

#13 stoppingby4now

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 03:39 PM

Don't forget the politicians... they are responsible for the former lots.

The good thing about sending the lawyers and accounts up first is that the politicians have no one to defend them or manage their money, rendering them blind in essence. I say save them for last...make them sweat it out a bit. :lol:


Pretty much anything that resembles a corporate structure really. We're like a techno-hippie commune - we should build ourselves a geodesic dome. With fiber-optic broadband, naturally.

... and recycling and hydroponics ...

Technological equivalent of Charlie's Chocolate Factory? Cables made of liquorice anyone? OK, maybe not. First person to get hungry, there goes the Internet.
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#14 whistlerxp

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 07:38 AM

Skyrims mod community can be the largest since Oblivion and Fallout 3. Nexus cant handle it pretty much, in Russia there is a huge number of modsites making or just translating mods. Never seen such activity on one present game. And it goes bigger every second. Interesting how will Skyrim look year or two after this moment. Bethesdas "child" is treated better by modders then themselves. I cant understand that.
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