42 replies to this topic

[TechAngel85]

Honestly I have no idea how overrides behave regarding navmeshs. You can still fix it and see how it goes. But tbh, I just downloaded the mod to have a look, fixing it properly just with an addon seems crazy... there is a whole bunch of wild dirty edits.
 
 
And about my previous post : I'm not used to work with worldspaces (aka "exterior" cells), but I guess the trick wouldn't work for terrain edits, so exteriors wouldn't be mergeable anyway.

Thanks, I guess it's a try and see situation. I'll PM Zilav first though and ask him about the navmeshes before wasting even more hours on it than I already have.

 

I understand what you are saying. This mod has a lot of issues which I wanted to fix. I just started with the navmeshes, but the authors don't seem to be interested for whatever reason. I guess they plan on returning to it someday.

 

As for the exterior cells, the author told me it was designed like that because he'd originally planned for the "trophy hall" to be in the same space but changed it later. He openly admitted they were learning the CK when building this mod. I'd just build my own if I could use that sorting system they're using, but they're not going to part with anything from this mod anytime soon so I'm just have to hope I can fix some things using an addon

[Kesta]

 I'd just build my own if I could use that sorting system they're using

I didn't actually try the mod, just looked at it in TES5Edit and the CK to see what it was about.

 

But for the sorting, if that's what I'm thinking aout, I'm pretty sure they used this : https://www.nexusmod...yrim/mods/24678

Or something similar, I'm not really used to house-mod related ressources, so there might be something out there more up to date than this link. But you usually don't come up with your own auto-sort / auto-loot script when learning how to use the CK ^^ (check other house mods credit section, you might discover some awesome stuffs)

Edited by Kesta, 06 July 2015 - 01:45 PM.

[TechAngel85]

Thanks! That does sound similar to what's in the mod.

[hishutup]

Honestly I have no idea how overrides behave regarding navmeshs. You can still fix it and see how it goes. But tbh, I just downloaded the mod to have a look, fixing it properly just with an addon seems crazy... there is a whole bunch of wild dirty edits.

 

 

And about my previous post : I'm not used to work with worldspaces (aka "exterior" cells), but I guess the trick wouldn't work for terrain edits, so exteriors wouldn't be mergeable anyway.

I did some testing awhile back, I'll add you to the conversation.

[Kesta]

I did some testing awhile back, I'll add you to the conversation.

Thx, haven't time to check the whole stuff right now (I'm supposed to be sleeping for 3 hours <insert sleepy smiley here>), but there is some really interesting things in there. Preferred path have always been a mistery to me. Also I'm pretty sure there is some report on the decoding of navmesh records somewhere in a TES5Edit related thread (might be on github or the one on afkmod). Would be cool to be able to figure out the current state of the art regarding navmeshs (If TechAngel ever reach zilav, I think he'll have the link to the thread I'm thinking about).

 

 

Edit : Sorry for the half-off-topic @moderators/admins.

Edited by Kesta, 06 July 2015 - 07:01 PM.

[TechAngel85]

Yeah, Zilav said that the nevmeshes would overwrite just like any other record. There's not "merging" It's either one or the other. I really really want to do my own house mod now but editing in the worldspace is going to be a lot harder. I now see why all these tutorials have you building interior spaces.

[TechAngel85]

Need some more guidance. I'm going to give the whole story as all the information is presented:

 

I'm editing and fixing Jaggarsfeld, a player's home mod. The author has given the okay for mods that extend or fix it, as long as the main mod is a master. So I start off by loading the mod up in xEdit and coping the USKP changes into a new plugin call 'Jaggarsfeld Extended' (this will be the addon plugin to the main mod and we'll use JE for short). After this, I add Jaggarsfeld as a master to the new plugin and save and exit.

 

Next I load up the new plugin in the CK. The exterior navmesh is the first thing I want to fix so I delete all of it to start from scratch and save the file. Then I load up JE in xEdit again because I know I'll have to re-add it as a master to be able to work and save the changes in the CK to it (unless I'm doing this wrong). I noticed the new navmesh data for JE is present so I re-add Jaggarsfeld as a master again.

 

Next, I load up JE in the CK again to start work on the exterior navmesh. I noticed that the CK duplicated the mod's worldspace which is fine since I'm not saving to the main file and saving to JE. However, this is where my issue lays. When I load up the Jaggarsfeld worldspace (HunterCabin) and go to edit the navmesh, the main mod's meshes are shown rather than my the saved JE navmesh, which are currently empty since I deleted them. How am I suppose to get the navmesh from JE to take priority and work with them rather than with the main mods? I suppose if this is saved in the duplicated worldspace there would be no way of doing this.

 

The only way I can think of getting around this is by completely duplicating Jaggarsfeld's worldspaces and saving them to JE. Then I would only work from those duplicated spaces. This would be okay, however, I'm not sure how this will effect things down the line. I suppose I might be able to load JE in xEdit, re-add Jaggarsfeld as a master, and then clean out everything that is "identical to master". This, in my head, sounds like it would create a plugin that only adds or replaces things from the master, Jaggarsfeld (main mod).

 

This that the proper way to do something like this?

[TechAngel85]

I got to thinking, it might be better to do all the changes to the main mod and then rename it when done, add the main mod as a master, clean it, and then call it a day. xEdit through a fit about there being a duplicated world, if I remember correctly.

[TechAngel85]

Bump.

 

Guess I'm in "try it and see" territory now. I just do not want to do a lot of work to find out the plugin isn't working because I did it wrong. I know STEP isn't the best place to be asking about CK related stuff.

[Kesta]

I got to thinking, it might be better to do all the changes to the main mod and then rename it when done, add the main mod as a master, clean it, and then call it a day. xEdit through a fit about there being a duplicated world, if I remember correctly.

This won't work, because records from your new plugin, even if you add the old one as master, won't be considered as "override", they'll belong to your plugin, not the original. So you'll just have everything duplicated, thus overlapping and probably causing a big lot of z-fighting (if it doesn't just crash your game).

 

As for the rest of your question, I don't have enough knowledge to provide a decent answer just like this, and not enough time to validate some hypothesis and idea I have on the subject, so I'd rather keep quiet instead of sayin' ******** ^^

 

 

Best places to ask about modding right now are probably bethsoft forum or /r/skyrimmods

 

 

Edit : Oh, so their IS auto-censorship here... sorry ^^

Edited by Kesta, 16 July 2015 - 10:05 AM.

[TechAngel85]

Yep, we censor to keep things kid-friendly.

 

Thanks for your reply. I already posted this over on the Beth forum a few minutes ago. There are some great tutorials out there but nothing that specifically covers what I'm wanting to do here. Eventually, I'm going to be making my own player home, but for practice I wanted to do this first. That and I think Jaggarsfeld deserves some fixes since it is one of the two player homes that as inspired me. If you're interested in tracking the conversation, it's posted here: https://forums.beths...ing-mod-addons/

[SparrowPrince]

You're modding? I would not have thought it would have been something you would have enjoyed Tech. I thought you liked tweaking and editing outside of the game itself. Why won't the authour let you do what you want if you are fixing it up? I don't  know why it has to be linked to the original mod if this person does not want to update it anymore. If it has custom assets that would be enough to get people to download the original. Don't include them in your version and tada! I may hate the CK, but please keep us updated. I am not totally clueless with this tool, honest. 

[TechAngel85]

You're modding? I would not have thought it would have been something you would have enjoyed Tech. I thought you liked tweaking and editing outside of the game itself. Why won't the authour let you do what you want if you are fixing it up? I don't  know why it has to be linked to the original mod if this person does not want to update it anymore. If it has custom assets that would be enough to get people to download the original. Don't include them in your version and tada! I may hate the CK, but please keep us updated. I am not totally clueless with this tool, honest. 

I enjoy a challenge and this is what I'm challenging myself with (same reason I did all the work on the STEP Female Overhaul, which in essence can be considered my first mod...just under the STEP name). As for the author, I don't know. I have talked to one of them to try to provide all my navmesh fixes and USKP forwards, but he didn't seem interested for whatever reason which is kinda strange because I wasn't asking for anything in return. All that work just went down the drain. They did say that the mod wasn't "abandoned" but rather they just didn't have time to work on it (last update was in 2013), but are not "releasing permissions to the community" just yet. The only requirement they put on addon mods was to keep the main mod as a master. Which is dumb because you have to manually add it as a master any time you do any work to the addon. They do have a few things which are custom to the mod. The biggest being that it's in it's own custom worldspace. Right now all I'm wanting to do is fix the ¹navmesh issues like I did before, ²delete a few ground object textures that are pointless, ³delete the water wheel since it's completely pointless and is only there for aesthetics, and ⁴add a couple rooms for a follower and one child. These changes would add some new life into that old mod. But before I can do any of that I need to know how to properly create an addon mod like this in the CK without having to actually edit the main mod and still have all my changes override it.

 

I just noticed that Zilav might have already answered my question when I asked him about plugins and navmesh overrides:

 

Yes, you can mod any plugin and any content with another plugin, and then another one on top of them, and another... up to the 253 plugins limit. That's the buty of Beth's plugins system.

Make sure to convert plugins being modded into ESM (toggle flag in TES4 header) when loading in CK, no need to change extension.

 

Toggling Jaggarsfeld to be an ESM while I work in the CK might be the answer I've been looking for as long as this change doesn't require the main mod to stay an ESM in the header...which would require a mod update to Jaggarsfeld...which probably wouldn't happen... I must try this when I get home from work tonight!

[SparrowPrince]

Wow I remember that other mod  where you tried to help and you got it thrown in your face. That's like me refusing your installer because I preferred the 'simplicity' of my own. Ungrateful would not cut it. 

 

That idea sems to make sense, I hope it works out for you. I'm not that familar with creating Navmesh, (did it once in FO3) but it looks like Fallout 4 will introduce dynamic Navmesh in my opinion. The house building is why I say this and it would be great for them to finally have a modern system that updates itself around whatever you place. It would make editing much easier.

[DoubleYou]

I always find it easier creating my own stuff rather than fixing other people's work