Why Elder Scrolls Online fails to Deliver (for me)

[WilliamImm]

...and, after deciding that I wouldn't buy this game after seeing the silliness that is the Imperial edition, I finally got an invite. Stress test, natch.

 

I'll try it just to say that I have, but I'm not expecting it to be for me.

[FCqt]

If you guys didn't get an invite... you can get one there: https://www.curse.com/betas/teso-beta-key-giveaway

 

If somehow you manage to not be able to get any key I got 12 key to giveaway.

[Uhuru]

Having played the last beta I'm just not interested it is as I suspected Just an MMO last I read americanns gave it an adult rating even though they made Molag Bol a kitten skoomer a drink and other lore changes to try to get a teen rating

as for game just typical MMO bad design.

Everybody is the chosen one all doing the same quests at the same time spot a crowd and that's the next quest giver dont need quest markers never mind directions just follow the crowd and alliances out of game is just stupid if you do want to PvP join a out of game alliance to even be able to compete then you do as you're told by alliance bigwigss or get shut out of chase to be emporer. Established MMO guilds will dominate this and they'll end up with 3 factions per guild so they can attack other guilds to gain keeps. I'm not ever getting into that system on anmy game, If factions exist at all they should be purely in game only with restricted communication using only in game methods.

If your character don't speak a language you cant understand that language at all. If you're whispering in game only the character whose ear is next to your mouth hears it. Shout and all in range hear even if they don't understand what's said.

In a magic world spells and the like would help.

One weak point of most Magic fantasy worlds is the illogical limitations placed on it when it is a technology with unique qualities that never actually get exploited or utilised as with the dwemer in TES they would be emulated by others and a new entire technological system based on the scientific method would develop over time. Mysteriosly the dwemer vanish and no-one in all that time has followed their path never mind surpassed it. Except modders of course but even that's limited. Lore Breaking no problem it's been Dwemered: Sky Radio one example I saw. Totally Lore breaking it picks up signals from where nobody knows but 100 of your favourite tracks can be used Dwemer it and it's fully ready for STEP. I think not.

Just making magic an energy source for existing products is just lazy but a carefully imagined Science of Magic would make an interesting game.

Why are swords even used when guns would have made them obsolete, but there are no guns you say! Rubbish, I say. What is a Fireball shhoting Staff if not a gun, cannon even. Human or Elf or any other race would arm all soldiers with staffs even if inefficient when swords would be a backup as with the first guns or a blade tipped staff as a jabbing spear when needed. a bayostaff or staffonet even.

Wandering a bit there but back on topic I mentioned Star Citizen when refering to crowd funding and Aiyen said its funding method is OK only for Single Player but not MMO.

Frankly if they can't make a 1st Class game of any sort for $40 Million Dollars they can't make one for any price and/or are charging vastly inflated amounts of money for pure extortion. When a game is crowdfunded all the profiteering and exploitation of Publishing Corporations is eliminated and these middlemen who rake off vast amounts of revenueand at worst force the developers to release shoddy and unfinished products purely to meet some arbitary schedule.

11-11-11 or 14-4-14 for instance I mean obviously these release dates are not selected months in advance because the games done and will release on that date whatever state the game is in.

Although at the time I was purely referring to the crowd funds raised by Star Citizen and not the game having read comments since I will now say this:

• Star Citizen is an online game not single player
  • However it does also come with a separate sinle player game set in the same universe.
• Not being labelled a MMO is irrelevent as thats just a marketing tactic
• Actually it's an advantage not to be called a MMO as it comes with to much baggage and is limitting the potential users
  • TES Online started by not using MMO but it does now a case in point There are 2 seperate groups
• It is a PC only game designed using the CryEngine 3 so yes Crysis graphics and no reason why not
• Consoles limit PC games Skyrim Modded shows the difference even limited to 32-bit
• Once New Consoles were better than the best PC but not anymore. The simple limit now is Power Consoles are stuck with around 300W
  • PS3 and XBox 360 only just matched PC's when they 1st arrived but now the best PC's use about a 1000W  = 1kW
  • So even with same graphics the consoles can't match PC's and never will without more power which would increase costs making them just limited PC's
• The Graphics Question is easily solved using the same simple methods modders use
  • The Wrong but Console way is to make limited low resolution Graphics called Consoles Best Graphics
    • Create a complete new set of High Res PC graphics and expect gratitude for doing even that
  • The Right and Logical way is make Graphics for the best resolutions of the B est Pc's
    • Downsize the same graphics to produce Resolutions for smaller capacity PC's and ignore consoles or be merciful and make one they can use as well
    • There may be touching up needed but this is the sensible and economic method
• The simple method of removing the publishers or middlemen makes the game much cheaper to produce
  • Middlemen contribute nothing creative and are parasites feeding off the efforts of others
• Replacing the parasites one

[Deathwing514]

Alright after trying out the beta tonight, I am quite disappointed by this game.

 

While it does have the Elder scroll feel to some extent, it also strips down everything that made the series so great.

 

Personally, I feel like the game is having a identity crisis and doesn't know if its trying to be a MMO or a Elder scrolls game.

 

The battle mechanic feels very clunky and the range weapon such as the bow ruined my experience of this game completely.

 

The bow just doesn't have any depth and weight behind it, like it does with the main series.

 

In addition to the poor mechanics, the MMO part is also suffering because the game was built around consoles instead of the PC. (sound familiar Skyrim players and its quite ironic for an MMO)

 

The fact that I cant point and click in the main game (besides the UI) feels like I am limited to my control scheme.

 

This truly feels like I am playing a ported version of an MMO from consoles than the other way around.

[Ubeogesh]

FCqt, can you give me 1 key? Don't want to bother registering at that site...

Probably going to try it out next weekend.

[FCqt]

FCqt, can you give me 1 key? Don't want to bother registering at that site...

Probably going to try it out next weekend.

 

Check your pm, hopefully you'll have some time to try it :)

[Uhuru]

I started this as a reply to a post about a specific mod theft but this is about the general attitudes to mod rights and responsibilities not one author. The topic and author both deserve a separate thread.

 

Some general points on the issue of mod rights and wrongs, as with all generalities there are exceptions but in most cases the general applies and establishing rights and responsibilities must be applicable to most cases.

 

First many mod authors have similar views to these below, giving instructions on their own mods that equal or surpass the rules suggested, including Wrye the creator of Wrye Bash, he wrote a detailed and well explained article article and even created a open source license based on his views and they can be found on his Wrye Musings website.

Wrye Notes: Open Modding

This is the foundation for these musings, but he gave up modding before Skyrim arrived and Nexus Domination. I do not include Steam Workshop as it oversimplifies modding, it is more about controlling modders and modding, more than as being a tool for modders. It is dangerous because it oversimplifies modding, more than any of the bad game breaking reasons usually given, for those new to modding this is the worst aspect. So these are my thoughts not Wrye's he speaks for himself in the page linked.

 

Claiming a mod made by someone else is unjustifiable and nothing in these ideas makes that acceptable. Naming and Shaming publicly is the best method to discourage this.

However exposing a user name, that was probably created for the theft, has no real effect.

Simply require that if theft is proven thes real name and email are made public at least between mod sites to prevent repeat offenders just switching user name or site.

This would require agreement of standards of proof and identity confirnation that can be used by all sites.

 

Now for the real topic Rights and Responsibilities.

Generally Mod Authors have full control of the Mods they create.

With two notable exceptions.

1 Abandonment

 

Currently when an author suddenly ceases to post without any reason given the Mods are in limbo and certainly with Nexus untouchable regardless of the needs or requirements of anything else. A time limit should apply to all mods allowing for the open source access once that time limit is reached.

This would apply to the authors work as a set meaning the author has stopped modding and not just a mod that doesn't require working on.

 

2 No Withdrawals

 

Simply once publicly releasd Mods stay releasd. Mods are never entirely independant, many require other Mods, retextures are common. Old versions for old saves, STEP type guides and crucially community bug fixing support are some of the reasons for this.

The only valid reason for withdrawal is a game breaking bug. When the author can't or won't fix the bug then others should be able to try to do so.

Changing hosts is simply managed by requiring new host follow the same rules and mods are up on new site before old one takes them down.

 

These two exceptions provide reasonable consideration to the communal and interdependent nature of mods while still allowing the author creative control.

Currently authors have rights but no responsibilities even to other authors. Never mind the community as a whole. Without the bug fixing support, all mods would be diminished.

 

This is not targeted at the Nicoroshi specifically but at the general attitude "It's my ball and I'm taking it with me."

That attitude of punish all for the behaviour of one, is likely to encourage ignoring of authors requests as expecting others to behave reasonably while being unreasonable in return will simply never work.

When it happens inevitably the mods are available outside the authors control which will never be regained.

[redirishlord]

It is an MMO... it has to pay the bills, and the main market is the casual players.. hence there will always be pay to win in MMO´s.

 

About wow... the fact that it is still running is not surprising... the fact that it still has a subscription fee is! It is really quite amazing that people want to pay monthly for it...

 

The reason other games like LOL, DOTA, PoE (Path of Exile) can offer their games for free is mainly because the actual cost of running shop and development of the product is quite a bit lower then for an MMO.

 

If ya want a good laugh at times you should try to find some game development forums, and see how many people want to create an MMO that "has crysis graphics, good meaningful RPG gameplay, etc". The responses from developers who have tried the same, or been part of MMO projects... etc. their responses are sometimes quite amusing.

Re- your last paragraph & the subsequent request for an example, check this out (seriously its worth a glance) https://robertsspaceindutries.com/funding-goals

Tour the sites main pages, its pretty amazing that this is an entirely crowd funded game. Really shows where you can go with enough drive and vision, and no AAA publisher. Just think what this model would mean for an epic fantasy RPG title.

[Sakedo]

This is going to bomb badly. I only hope it doesn't take Zenimax with it before they get around to releasing an Elder Scrolls game that isn't based on an ancient fork of Gamebryo. They owe me at least that much.

[Aiyen]

redirishlord:

That is indeed a quite amazing feat. But you have to remember the basis for it.

The person who started it all, is a veteran, not just some new developer out of his/her moms basement.

He has the connections, the knowhow, and most vitally, he actually know what is realistic to go for based on the resources he can call on.

 

My last paragraph was mainly related to people who are trying to get into the industry, they have plenty of ambitious ideas, and mostly the basic knowhow. But they lack the experience when it comes to what is realistic. This is what the example I provided was meant to show.

 

Another point to this specific example is... it is a space sim... the only REAL "competition" is EVE. For any fantasy setup you have to compete with... WoW, and just about every other single MMO out there.

[redirishlord]

@ Aiyen, happy & surprised to see your post (worried I was a little necro with mine).

True, CR is definitely a veteran (and not just for space sims if you remember early 90s computer gaming). As far as realistic & resources he has stated he initially hoped to reach $5mil in crowd funding as a stretch goal (but was prepared to proceed with less).

I think StarCitizen's success will show others what is possible, and change the process going forward (I hope so, I think AAA publishers have created a stifling environment that holds back rather than promotes all the wonderful talent out there - from basements & boardrooms).

Perhaps SC's success ignites additional interest in current crowd funded efforts (Planescape? Nexus modders efforts to break into the "professional" scene - I'm likening them to college or Olympic atheletes going pro). It's a good thing for the entire scene I think.

Another point not to be missed, in the context of this thread or in general, StarCitizen is for the PC, no console support is intended in the design. Therefore PC players aren't being held back by the needs of console users (something I would have loved in TES5, port to console after don't bake it into - nerf - the original design).

As for the apples (space sim) to oranges (mmo/rpg) comparison, admittedly guilty. I think its still possible for a brave visionary to break the WoW mold and redefine the MMO scene for the better, more possible since StarCitizen's funding success. I wish the MMO gamechanger would have been ESO, but it doesn't appear that's the case. Look at that, back to topic ;-)

[WilliamImm]

This is going to bomb badly. I only hope it doesn't take Zenimax with it before they get around to releasing an Elder Scrolls game that isn't based on an ancient fork of Gamebryo. They owe me at least that much.

Eh, while I am seeing this product being a failure, I'm not too worried that this will take out Bethesda along with it. The game's being developed by a seperate wing of Zenimax (Zenimax Online), rather than Bethesda themselves. And Zeni has a good number of other studios under it (including id Software and Tango Gameworks, Shinji Mikami's new studio being two others they have).

[Aiyen]

redirishlord:

We can hope.

 

In light of this thread then I think ESO once more show the real fail of fantasy MMO development. They simply use to many generic things that already exist in MMO #43 of the same genre. The only thing that alters between games is the setting, all mechanics and gameplay is the same.

Which is also why they all end up as FTP and P2W... they are essentially the same game just with new skins.

 

I find it really funny that what made wow really popular initially was that it was actually difficult and rewarded people who put in an effort! Raiding was a time investment that provided you with something everyone else would not be able to get. Sadly casual gamers these days cry to high heaven when ANYTHING is a time investment at all, and they do bring in the majority of the income.

 

In my world then any MMO that has unique content only for the people who actually put in the time and effort are the ones I am going to want to play.

[rootsrat]

I'm only going to say that I am deeply disappointed with ESO after trying it for a couple of hours. There was NOTHING that made the game interesting, apart from the fact that it's set in ESO universe. Before I tried it I already knew I wouldn't play it hard core, but I was planning to get it anyway for some casual MMO time, but now I think I am not even going to buy it.

 

It's generic and boring, that's my bottom line.

[redirishlord]

Star Citizen is going to be my online gaming outlet (I hesitate to call it an MMO as its more of a combat/economic sim) while I continue to play Skyrim & Fallout NewVegas offline. With the advances in modding (specifically ENB & Memory patch 3.0) I should be well entertained until TES6 & FO4 drop.