SKYRIMLE Atlas Map Markers with Dragonborn Dawnguard and Blackreach Addons (by Kronixx)

[Neovalen]

I think he means shortcut door that requires a key, but I could be wrong.

[kryptopyr]

Unfortunately, I don't think the MCM menu is going to happen.  I had contacted Kronixx a while ago and offered to help him set up the MCM.  Since then, he's decided that it would take too much work to implement the MCM.  Also, the preliminary script I worked up had some pretty severe lag when setting the various options.  This isn't noticeable when the book menus run, but was very apparent when using the MCM controls.

 

 

 

As for the entrance to the Ragged Flagon, the note about it for the new 1.7 update says "Keyed shortcut into the Ragged Flagon that bypasses one load screen" - I'm not clear what that means: adding a hot-key that can be pressed to change the entrance?

The mod adds a sewer grate in the back alley of Riften which provides an alternate method for entering and leaving the Flagon (it connects to the small bedroom).  Basically, it allows the player to skip going through the cemetery entrance into the cistern first.

[keithinhanoi]

Unfortunately, I don't think the MCM menu is going to happen.  I had contacted Kronixx a while ago and offered to help him set up the MCM.  Since then, he's decided that it would take too much work to implement the MCM.  Also, the preliminary script I worked up had some pretty severe lag when setting the various options.  This isn't noticeable when the book menus run, but was very apparent when using the MCM controls.

Well, that's a shame - though it was really kind of you to offer that assistance!With the book setup, it does take a bit of time to set up the options, though it flashes messages so you don't start worrying something has stopped working.Perhaps another way to go would be to equip the player with a duplicate set of the books in their inventory from the start of the game? I imagine that's been suggested already, and there must be some reason it can't / shouldn't be done.

The mod adds a sewer grate in the back alley of Riften which provides an alternate method for entering and leaving the Flagon (it connects to the small bedroom).  Basically, it allows the player to skip going through the cemetery entrance into the cistern first.

So is that a graceful enough solution to make the STEP folks happy?

[rootsrat]

So is that a graceful enough solution to make the STEP folks happy?

IMHO - purely from STEP Mandate point of view - I don't think so. The extra door is purely for convenience. It's not a bug fix or an improvement. It's not justified by lore or by any logic either (it's the secret base of Thieves Guild - they'd rather have one entrance that would take some effort to be found. A trapdoor in a back alley would be too obvious). 

[Vulgar1]

Actually you can't use the door or access the Ragged Flaggon without going through the Rataway the first time, if that makes a difference. You cannot access the door until after you can access the moselium door anyway. And even then you don't end up using it because all the main scenes take place in the cistern. The only time it comes in handy is if you are doing the radiant quests from the Ragged Flaggon. In which case it is actually convenient because it cuts down on extra loading screens, which makes ILS and CTD less likley, which makes it a fix, which makes it fit the STEP mandate. IPSO FACTO.

 

Not to mention lots of mods included in STEP techically allow you to cheat and it is left up to user discression whether or not they use them. Basically every mod with and MCM menu allows you to cheat or at the very least is simply for convenience. i.e. Nausica's Tweaker and The Theives Guild Requirments and others. So if use of those is left up to those is left to user discression can be left to the user why not a simple door. Though my original point stands that it is actually a fix and does not really affect the game in any way accept cutting down on extra load screens from either way you would enter or exit the Ragged Flaggon normally.

 

The books are the located in Riverwood the only logical way of getting them earliar would be to place them in Helgen Keep or maybe the Hunter's Camp by the Guardian Stones. Neither of thse options make sense. It makes sense for them to be available in a store. Though maybe it would be better if they were in the six main stores of the six main holds and they cost a bit of coin. Also it should be noted that there are two copies of each in the Riverwood Trader, so you can take one and leave the other. That way if you ever lose it there will be another copy.

Edited June 1, 2014 by Vulgar1

[DoubleYou]

I think we shouldn't blow up on the alternate thieves guild entrance. We should be able to disable it in the STEP Patches if necessary. I've been away from this mod for awhile but I want to test this again. I do know I never used the full version, relegating it merely to Dawnguard and Blackreach, which were either lacking all map markers or a lot of them.

[kryptopyr]

Even if you look past, or welcome, it as a cheat.  The position of the sewer entrance is spatially inaccurate - to a degree that is very noticeable (it's located diametrically opposite of where it should be).  Yes, the vanilla game has a lot of mismatches between the exterior and interior space, but I'm not aware of any that are as blatantly incorrect as this one.  If it were vanilla, it would be considered a bug, so no I don't think it can be considered a fix.  Also, there are several scene and/or quest stages along the Thieves Guild quest line that are triggered when the player enters through the regular Flagon door.  A player who didn't know better and who had gotten use to entering and leaving through the sewer door might encounter problems with some of the quests due to this.

 

I wouldn't vote against the mod for STEP due to the door (it is a wonderful mod after all), but I would suggest disabling via the STEP patch.  The problem with doing this is that the STEP patch is essentially breaking the mod.  If the STEP patch is going to be changing mods and not just forwarding/merging conflicting records, then this really needs to be advertised more and a list of changes provided (maybe there's already a list somewhere, but I don't remember seeing one).  For the rare people who actually read the mod descriptions, not having certain features of the mods work would be troubling.

[EssArrBee]

Well, I did make a really detailed list of records that touch here, here, and here. The list of records are pretty much complete, but the descriptions could use some work. Oh, and those pages only do the 2.2.9 patches, since I don't want to go back and stuff from old version, no time for that.

 

Anyways, I don't think I want to remove things from people's mods to make a mod compatible because some users do not use the STEP Patches (stupid weirdos    ). Plus, I would have to get permission to that and I've not had the best luck dealing with modders who aren't STEP members. I would like to just keep it as a patch/merged plugin for lowering plugin count. If I do some kind of big compilation type thing *hint, hint*, then I'd consider it for that.

[Vulgar1]

"A player who didn't know better and who had gotten use to entering and leaving through the sewer door might encounter problems with some of the quests due to this."

That's a good point. Of course there could be a note of warning in the guide. Maybe even just a simple warning would suffice and you could forgo the patching.

Heeyyy! I'm not a stupid weirdo . On the number of plug-ins note, if it is installed as legendary without the compass tweaks it uses only one .esp, which is another benefeit.

Jeez why am I pressing this so hard. I'm not a member of the STEP team. Who do I think I am for crying out loud!?!? Just shut up Vulgar jeeeez.

[Neovalen]

Personally I find the compass tweaks to be a good plus, they declutter the interface which is important with so many map markers.

[kryptopyr]

I heard back from Kronixx: 

 

The Ragged Flagon entrance does have the option to remove it, it's on the Places menu. But it wouldn't be that hard to make it an Option instead of a Place.

 

So it turns out that there is a way to remove the Flagon door, it's just buried in the menus a bit.

 

I also proposed creating a simplified MCM to reduce the amount of work it would take to create.  My idea is to allow the user to toggle the settings for the various groups of markers, but only at the group level.  A button could also be added to the MCM that would bring up the existing menus, through which the player could control the markers at an individual level if they wished.  Kronixx thought that sounded good, and gave me the go ahead to design an MCM for this mod.

 

For those of you who use this mod, would having MCM controls at the group level, but not for the individual markers, be a sufficient compromise?  Again, the individual markers will still be toggleable via the existing menu scripts, just not through the MCM interface.  I should, however, be able to add a toggle to disable the Flagon door (and if Kronixx will allow me to, I'll probably have it disabled by default).  Also, if there are any specific settings that STEP would prefer, I could maybe add a STEP preset to the MCM that would automatically adjust the settings to use the STEP recommendations (again, assuming Kronixx approves).

[keithinhanoi]

With the books, I always set almost all of the markers up in groups, as enabled but undiscovered, which makes all of the added secondary / special work the same as in the vanilla game - you don't see it on the map until you've gone there.

 

However, I don't use any of the markers designed to help you find things that would be considered a "cheat", such as the markers for the paper note treasure map locations.

 

I should have remembered the Flagon door option - now that you mention it kryptopyr, I do recall seeing it.

[DoubleYou]

Sounds good, kryptopyr.

[redirishlord]

I heard back from Kronixx: 

...

 

For those of you who use this mod, would having MCM controls at the group level, but not for the individual markers, be a sufficient compromise? 

...  I should, however, be able to add a toggle to disable the Flagon door (and if Kronixx will allow me to, I'll probably have it disabled by default)...

  Also, if there are any specific settings that STEP would prefer, I could maybe add a STEP preset to the MCM that would automatically adjust the settings to use the STEP recommendations (again, assuming Kronixx approves).

Brilliant.

Really brilliant.

Also absolutely brilliant.

 

Thanks Krypto for your work on this, and to Vulgar for fanning the enbers of the thread. I had dismissed this mod previously, but the new attention (and possible "MCM & options" attention fromyou) has me downloading it now.

[keithinhanoi]

Whoops - I see that my previous comment got posted without my last bit of text - the part that says...

 

Thanks a bunch for your (krypto) offer to help with an MCM menu.

 

Oh, and yes, if he's agreeable, some kind of global option to set presets would be really great.