DDSopt Vanilla Optimization

[e4stw00t]

I was able to follow the guide pretty much to the very end but there I got a bit lost. I end up with 6 individual 7 zip files (having Dawnguard and Dragonborn DLCs) in the working folder I created (which is outside of the Skyrim directory). As I read the instruction I should now move these 6 archives to the skyrim data folder and remove from there in my case 6 bsa files (HighResPacks 1-3, Skyrim - Textures, Dawnguard and Dragonborn).

 

Probably I got something about these last activities required wrong since when I start the (otherwise unmodified) Skyrim now, it crashes at the title screen.

[PlanetExp]

Are you using Mod Organizer? The archives should installed as mods through MO for best compability. MO unzip those archives into loose files. The loose files overwrite the BSA files and that's why you can remove them. If I understand correctly you are placing 7zip archives in the data folder and this is probably why it crashes, skyrim can't read those and you removed the BSAs. You can unzip the folders into /data as loose files but just let MO handle it. It's much cleaner.

 

 

Thanks

Fred

[e4stw00t]

Thank you for the support! I think I am getting closer and get at least the basics now.

 

After installing the files via MO I can see them showing up in the data section - the plugins and archives are unchanged. Now oddly enough the system still crashes for as long as I don't deselect both the Dawnguard.esm and Dragonborn.esm. Is this supposed to work like that?

 

One final question, do I need to activate the 3 HighResTexturePack ESPs in the MO's Plugin section in addition or do the optimized texture mods now to the job without it?

[PlanetExp]

woa.. well it's not odd at all if it's crashing if your fiddling with the plugin list :)

 

It's perhaps a bit confusing at first but a mods assets BSA/ESP/ESM/loose files are all handled differently. When you optimized the vanilla textures you just replace the textures and meshes while the plugins (esp/esm) stay the same. So plugins (esp/esm) should be remain ticked in the plugin list of MO (right pane), while you can safely remove the original BSA files from the actual /data folder (since you overwrite them 100% with your optimized files, which are now stored in Mod Organizers virtual file system).

 

So leave the plugins checked, otherwise you deny Skyrim to load the vanilla assets, which will obviously crash the game. The exception to this is the HRDLC mods which ONLY contain textures which the vanilla ESMs are already loading. Mod Organizer helps you with this by letting skyrim virtually access them from it's own mod folder.

 

Don't know if it made anything clearer but here's some help on MO.

[Kelmych]

Some summary installation instructions for the optimized texture archive files for both Mod Organizer and Wrye Bash were added to the DDSopt guide today. If there are questions or comments please let us know. Hopefully these additions answer some of the questions in the posts in this thread.

[pStyl3]

Hey there, first post here.    I have some previous experience with Optimizer Textures, but as I completely reinstalled Skyrim, switched from NMM to MO (i am using the latest Beta), revampt my modlist & loadorder (using LOOT), cleaned the official master files and certain mod plugins .. I wanted to go the "last" step aswell, and that is to try out DDSopt for certain texture optimization.

 

So as a first step I read through the Chapter about optimizing the vanilla textures in Neovalens Skyrim Revisited Guide and followed it's orders; of course I created a DDSopt.ini and made sure, that DDSopt was initialized correctly .. I only changed one setting, and that was under the Constraints tab the resolution limit, which I set to 2048x2048 (while processing *_n.dds and *_msn.dds of course 1024x1024). Because I have Win7 x64 Ultimate I used DDSopt x64.exe (administrator mode).

 

My left pane in MO currently looks like this:

Image 1

 

1. Question

Am I correct, that the optimized vanilla texture "mods" should be placed at the very top of the installation order (left pane)?

 

 

So I went ahead and made a few tests with Skyrim Performance Monitor. Therefore I always walked the exact same path, first through Whiterun, then in the direction of Markath, and once I reached a certain point I fast travaled to Riften Stables, walked around a bit more .. and then ended the test.

 

To mention is, that I have not optimized any mod plugins textures from other mods as of yet .. that will come later.

 

 

Test a - Normal Vanilla Textures - No ENBoost

Image 2

 

Test b - Optimized Vanilla Textures - No ENBoost

Image 3

 

Test c - Optimized Vanilla Textures - With ENBoost (ENBoost 5.0, ENBSeries v0254, InjectorVersion)

Image 4

 

 

 

Now you will recognize, that first, my VRAM is maxed out in the beginning (inside of Whiterun) and second, that my overall FPS rate could be more stable. Yes, indeed, those are the exact reasons why I am in the need of optimizing textures.

 

Anyway, you will also recognize, that there is really not a great difference between Test a and Test b .. and that brings me to my next question:

 

2. Question

Shouldn't optimizing the vanilla textures free up at least a small amount of ram/vram, so that it actually can be monitored (e.g. through SPM)?

 

I mean, I did not expect that Skyrim runs two times faster, but "no change at all"? My DDSopt .log files actually say that DDSopt did the job it is supposed to do .. see this:

 

Final report "D:SpieleModding0_ProgrammeMod_Organizer_SkyrimmodsVanilla Optimized": processed files: 18580 modified textures: 18524 skipped textures: 17 fixed textures: 0 fixed files: 0 broken files: 0 (0 without fixed ones) planar (1x1) textures: 3320 changed texture formats: 3531 i/o delta: -170438811 bytes tex delta: -170438811 bytes z delta: -1370665455 bytes

Final report "D:SpieleModding0_ProgrammeMod_Organizer_SkyrimmodsDawnguard Optimized": processed files: 3122 modified textures: 3108 skipped textures: 17 fixed textures: 0 fixed files: 0 broken files: 0 (0 without fixed ones) planar (1x1) textures: 934 changed texture formats: 936 i/o delta: -41013456 bytes tex delta: -41013456 bytes z delta: -445064752 bytes

Final report "D:SpieleModding0_ProgrammeMod_Organizer_SkyrimmodsHearthfire Optimized": processed files: 143 modified textures: 143 skipped textures: 17 fixed textures: 0 fixed files: 0 broken files: 0 (0 without fixed ones) planar (1x1) textures: 26 changed texture formats: 29 i/o delta: -1311864 bytes tex delta: -1311864 bytes z delta: -22385928 bytes

Final report "D:SpieleModding0_ProgrammeMod_Organizer_SkyrimmodsDragonborn Optimized": processed files: 9241 modified textures: 9238 skipped textures: 17 fixed textures: 0 fixed files: 0 broken files: 0 (0 without fixed ones) planar (1x1) textures: 2027 changed texture formats: 2045 i/o delta: -90558674 bytes tex delta: -90558674 bytes z delta: -704946040 bytes

Final report "D:SpieleModding0_ProgrammeMod_Organizer_SkyrimmodsHRDLC1 Optimized": processed files: 454 modified textures: 454 skipped textures: 0 fixed textures: 0 fixed files: 0 broken files: 0 (0 without fixed ones) planar (1x1) textures: 0 changed texture formats: 0 i/o delta: -809500800 bytes tex delta: -809500800 bytes z delta: -997998771 bytes

Final report "D:SpieleModding0_ProgrammeMod_Organizer_SkyrimmodsHRDLC2 Optimized": processed files: 6129 modified textures: 6129 skipped textures: 1 fixed textures: 0 fixed files: 0 broken files: 0 (0 without fixed ones) planar (1x1) textures: 2585 changed texture formats: 5176 i/o delta: -1481147384 bytes tex delta: -1481147384 bytes z delta: -1163113780 bytes

Final report "D:SpieleModding0_ProgrammeMod_Organizer_SkyrimmodsHRDLC3 Optimized": processed files: 369 modified textures: 369 skipped textures: 1 fixed textures: 0 fixed files: 0 broken files: 0 (0 without fixed ones) planar (1x1) textures: 0 changed texture formats: 21 i/o delta: -471160740 bytes tex delta: -471160740 bytes z delta: -667050522 bytes

I found that a bit confusing that I couldn't notice a change whatsoever. And that also brings me to my last point. Please look at this:

 

Skyrim - Textures.bsa - 1.29 GB

Vanilla Optimized - 2.04 GB

 

Dawnguard.bsa - 1.10 GB

Dawnguard Optimized - 385 MB

 

HearthFires.bsa - 133 MB

Hearthfire Optimized - 20 MB

 

Dragonborn.bsa - 1.67 GB

Dragonborn Optimized - 585 MB

 

HighResTexturePack01.bsa - 1.52 GB

HRDLC1 Optimized - 1.76 GB

 

HighResTexturePack02.bsa - 1.74 GB

HRDLC2 Optimized - 2.32 GB

 

HighResTexturePack03.bsa - 1.11 GB

HRDLC3 Optimized - 1.29 GB

 

 

3. Question

Do you get the same result in file sizes for the optimized texture "mods"? And why do you think do the file sizes actually increase for Skyrim - Textures.bsa and the 3 HiRes DLCs?

 

 

 

Final Note

Thanks for reading my little essay here. I would really appreciate it if someone can tell me his opinion on the whole matter. Thanks.

Edited October 28, 2014 by pStyl3

[EssArrBee]

The order of mods and optimized textures is going to change soon. The next MO beta will address dlc differently so you can order everything properly. For now the order is fine but maybe interlace the UPPs and optimized files. Optimized vanilla->USKP->optimized DG->UDGP->.... Then hrdlc and UHRP after the vanilla stuff and patches.

[pStyl3]

Thank you for the reply regarding my first question. I have read through the thread Ramifications of BSA Extraction in Mod Organizer and understand now what changes the next version of MO will bring.

 

I will interlace the "Optimized Vanilla Texture Mods" between the official DLCs, as you suggested it. If someone could comment on my second and third question I would appreciate it.

[Kelmych]

2. Question

Shouldn't optimizing the vanilla textures free up at least a small amount of ram/vram, so that it actually can be monitored (e.g. through SPM)?

 

I mean, I did not expect that Skyrim runs two times faster, but "no change at all"? My DDSopt .log files actually say that DDSopt did the job it is supposed to do .. 

 

I found that a bit confusing that I couldn't notice a change whatsoever. And that also brings me to my last point. Please look at this:

 

Skyrim - Textures.bsa - 1.29 GB

Vanilla Optimized - 2.04 GB

 

Dawnguard.bsa - 1.10 GB

Dawnguard Optimized - 385 MB

 

HearthFires.bsa - 133 MB

Hearthfire Optimized - 20 MB

 

Dragonborn.bsa - 1.67 GB

Dragonborn Optimized - 585 MB

 

HighResTexturePack01.bsa - 1.52 GB

HRDLC1 Optimized - 1.76 GB

 

HighResTexturePack02.bsa - 1.74 GB

HRDLC2 Optimized - 2.32 GB

 

HighResTexturePack03.bsa - 1.11 GB

HRDLC3 Optimized - 1.29 GB

 

 

3. Question

Do you get the same result in file sizes for the optimized texture "mods"? And why do you think do the file sizes actually increase for Skyrim - Textures.bsa and the 3 HiRes DLCs?

 

 

 

Final Note

Thanks for reading my little essay here. I would really appreciate it if someone can tell me his opinion on the whole matter. Thanks.

You can find some representative values for folder sizes of the optimized vanilla textures. Look at the file tree screenshot in the figure "Working Folder Directory Tree after Completion of Vanilla Texture Optimization" in the DDSopt guide .  Your values you have are consistent with these. A BSA is a compressed archive so the size of a BSA is typically less than the size of a folder with the individual files. The difference between loose files and BSAs won't have much effect on VRAM use since only a small portion of the textures are loaded at any time, and because Skyrim needs to extract any texture files being used from the BSA since the GPU doesn't use BSAs. There are some posts that describe the effect of optimizing the vanilla textures; these generally show some noticeable and useful VRAM use reduction, and less volatility in VRAM use.

 

You might also want to try running the standard STEP benchmark using the cart ride at the beginning of the game to get an idea of the differences. This would allow comparing your results with others who have optimized the textures.

 

ENBoost does not reduce VRAM use and may increase it a little, but it reduces the CTDs and other problems that all too often happen when VRAM use is close to the total VRAM available on the graphics card.

[pStyl3]

Thanks for the explanation. I will use the cart ride in my next testruns, which I will have done in a few days.

 

So I have updated to MO 1.2.5 now and interlaced the Patches and Optimized Textures between the DLCs like this:

 

- Vanilla Optimized

- USKP

- Dawnguard

- Dawnguard Optimized

- UDGP

- HearthFires

- Hearthfire Optimized

- UHFP

- Dragonborn

- Dragonborn Optimized

- UDBP

- HighResTexturePack01

- HRDLC1 Optimized

- HighResTexturePack02

- HRDLC2 Optimized

- HighResTexturePack03

- HRDLC3 Optimized

- UHRP

 

 

Would this be the recommended way, or should I change something? Just want to be absolutely sure about this.

Edited October 28, 2014 by pStyl3

[Neovalen]

That is correct.

[EssArrBee]

If you use Distant Decal Fix then it goes before USKP.

[pStyl3]

Excellent. And I don't use Distant Decal Fix, but thank you nonetheless! I will post my results once I'm through with testing.

[pStyl3]

23 days have passed since I made the first three testruns with Skyrim Performance Monitor, since then the following changes have been made:

• Updated SPM from v3.53 to v3.6
• Updated LOOT 0.5.0 to 0.6.0 RC1
• Updated MO to v1.2.9 and rearranged the install order like this
• Updated the following mods to their latest versions: iNeed, Run For Your Lives, iHUD, RaceMenu, Skyrim Immersive Creatures, Complete Crafting Overhaul Remade, Weapons and Armor Fixes Remade, Heljarchen Farm, Sofia, Unique Uniques (all mods are up2date)
• Remade Bashed Patch, Run the ReProccer

My current loadorder: Pastebin 1

My current (active) modlist: Pastebin 2

 

 

Test d - Cart Ride - Normal Vanilla Textures - No ENBoost

Image 5

 

Test e - Cart Ride - Optimized Vanilla Textures - No ENBoost

Image 6

 

On this heavily modded setup I can now see a significant change through optimizing the vanilla textures! First you can see, that in Test d at the end of the cart ride the VRAM is nearly maxed out... in Test e this looks better, the amount of VRAM was lowered.

 

Looking at the numbers I come to the following results. Through optimizing the textures, ...

• the average Memory decreased from 1417 MB to 1355 MB, resulting in a difference of -62 MB, or -4,375 %
• the maximum Memory decreased from 1799 MB to 1608 MB, resulting in a difference of -191 MB, or -10,617 %
• the average VRAM decreased from 940 MB to 910 MB, resulting in a difference of -30 MB, or -3,191 %
• the maximum VRAM decreased from 1274 MB to 1206 MB, resulting in a difference of -68 MB, or -5,338 %
• the average FPS increased from 52 fps to 53 fps, resulting in a difference of +1 fps, or +1,923 %
• the maximum FPS was the same (60 fps)

Looks great. Edited October 28, 2014 by pStyl3

[pStyl3]

I'm wondering .. would it be recomendable to manually delete certain files from e.g. "Vanilla Optimized", if the same file is provided from another Optimized mod that has a higher priority number? So as an example ..
../textures/weapons/torch/torch_n.dds
 
This file is provided by both Vanilla Optimized and HRDLC1 Optimized .. wouldn't it make sense to manually delete the file from Vanilla Optimized? Doing that with all the conflicts between the optimized mods should in theory enhance MOs startup speed, shouldn't it (as MO would have to manage fewer files)?

Edited October 28, 2014 by pStyl3

[z929669]

Probably will have no effect. The BSAs still all need to be extracted and assets overlayed with all others.

 

Reducing the sizes of the BSAs would conceivably increase performance, but probably not by any detectible amount. The DDSopt batch script removes the redundancies, so you might consider using that to clean up the vanilla textures before optimizing.