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Sluggish cell loading when running about outdoors

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#1 7hr08ik

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 08:54 AM

Hey guys, getting really REALLY annoyed with my PC.

Ive recently reinstalled my PC upto win 8.1.

I have 2 SSD's, one with windows (60GB M4) and one with all my games on (250GB M500). Skyrim has had a full reinstall, but my mods i left as they were.

My PC

i5 2500K @ 4 GHz

8GB Dominator RAM

ASUS GTX 670 4GB

 

For some reason, since updating to windows 8.1 my game is getting some really sluggish loading ingame.....You knwo when you do a stress test....player.setav speedmult 500.....and you run arounbd for ages the world starts to take a while to catchup with you.....takes a few seconds before the grass/trees and sometimes if you run stupidly fast buildings and rocks to appear. I am using SKSE 1.7a, everything has been cleaned etc.

I just want to make clear, that this was not an issue when i was on windows 7. I was even running more mods than i am now.

Well im getting that when running at normal speed, from the bridge at the meaqdery, to the Western Watchtower. I mean REALLY bad. By the time im at the tower.....there are no trees, no grass, only LODS. And your talking 30 seconds or more before things BEGIN to load up.

I've loaded my game up through Mod Organizer on vanilla. No mods at all, and my game runs perfectly well. I can sprint at speedmult 1200 without issue. This leads me to decide that it's either one fo my mods, or something else.

I have gone through my mod list and removed a fair few mods. I've taken out as many texture mods as i can. I even loaded my game up with no texture mods at all and it still happened. All i had loaded were gameplay mods. So im thinking that its just the sheer amount of mods i have are taking a while to load up. but then why wasnt it an issue on windows 7?

I have also noticed that on windows 7, with the new SKSE, my RAM usage would hit abour 5-6GB in game, but now it never goes above 4GB. (again the onloy thing that hass changed is windows, teh PC is still the same, the mods are actually less)

Is there something about windows 8.1 thats causing my SSD to load slowly? I have all my drivers/firmwares updated.

This is just getting rediculous, i cant run 100yrds without cell load stutter.

This is not an ENB problem. I load my game with ENB off and i still get it

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#2 MadWizard25

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 03:54 PM

Could you check your performance with Skyrim Performance Monitor? That way we can see resource utilization, even though im inclined to say with your hardware i doubt it.

 

Which leaves perhaps the issue of script lag. You can use Convenient Horses script lag tool to measure it. But having such script issues that you lag so badly is also unlikely.

 

Which leaves you with hardware issues. Its possible that some of your components are faulty. Try playing with normal clock speeds for GPU/ CPU/ RAM. Stress test and check your hardware for issues.

 

Finally, it may just be Win8, as you already pointed out. Its entirely likely that Skyrim may not like win 8 architecture. Ive never heard of issues, but then again the number of people how play heavily modded set ups on 8.1 is probably quite low compared to win 7. I know Win 8 has problems with some games. Ill soon be upgrading to 8.1 from 7, so this is of extreme interest to me once i start modding again.


Edited by MadWizard25, 17 March 2014 - 03:55 PM.

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#3 7hr08ik

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 04:48 PM

I really hope it isnt Win 8.1. I really dont wanna downgrade, but if i cant play games then i might have too. Windows 8 hasn't been too bad. once i figure out you need to set most programs to run as admin. I have all of the Skyrim tools/progs running as admin anyway.

 

Tommorrow im gonna try a few things......reset everything to stock values.... and im going to try a lil "i cant defrag a dam SSD trick".....namely copy the entire drive....reformat it and copy everything back.

 

It.s not a script issue, as far as i can tell.....my papyrus logs dont have VM freezing. I can see exactly whats happening....after a few minutes of play....the game begins to twitch when new items are popping in at the edge of the ugrids.....then the game freezes and stutters as they load in and it continues this way...off and on...The grass just doesnt load up in new cells and can take upto a minute to reappear. I used to get similar effects when i was more heavily modded on a plain old HDD but when i upgraded to my SSD it fixed all that.

 

My thinking is that with the all the installing.upgrading, deleting, and general usage my SSD is past the point that it NEEDS a defrag, but as they cant be defrag'd im gonna copy everything off it....reformat the drive thoroughly....and copy everything back on. Its a linux trick for ext3/4 partitions, but im hoping it might work for the SSD.

 

I will have a check with the ConHorses script delay tool, and have a quick run with Skyrim PerfMon, and post the results up.


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#4 7hr08ik

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 07:24 AM

Well....

 

I have reset my entire PC to stock values. Ran Skyrim PerfMon, copied my SSD contents reformated it, and put everything back on. But still no luck.

I have been running the Convienient horses script latency test, and im getting 40~70ms average latencys. The min and max go from about 10 upto 300ms when the game stutters. But the average figures seem OK.

 

However!!!

 

I've messed about with a few more mods.....as this issue only happens to me outside i have done the following...

Removed -

- Dramatic Clouds

- Etherial Auroras

- HQLODS

- Footprints

 

Replaced -

SFO Regular for SFO Basic

 

Doing this has helped ALOT!!! The grass loads up as it is needed, all textures load quickly and responsively. I still get the odd split second twitch every now and then but thats expected with such a large mod list. (Most likely just huge level lists and all the extra NPC's added.

The games latency has increased alot too.....as there are no longer any stutters and just a couple of twtches....the max values are only about 150ms. Still a tad high i know....but the averages are all 30~50ms.

 

I suppose i could still do with removing a few mods. Over 400 in mod organizer and over 300 esp's inc. the patches (That get merged before gameplay) only 210 active.

Im inclined to say that it was probably Dramatic clouds that was causing my issue. Because -

 

- It only happened outdoors

- It was not a script issue

- The problem was not hardware related

- It was simply the game taking too long to load textures after LODs. LODs were visible, but when getting closer the game would take far far FAR too long to update with the correct texture files...resulting in non-existent grass, and other textures being just LODs even when stood right next to the object.


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#5 FamousDeadGuy

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 09:48 PM

Well....

 

I have reset my entire PC to stock values. Ran Skyrim PerfMon, copied my SSD contents reformated it, and put everything back on. But still no luck.

I have been running the Convienient horses script latency test, and im getting 40~70ms average latencys. The min and max go from about 10 upto 300ms when the game stutters. But the average figures seem OK.

 

However!!!

 

I've messed about with a few more mods.....as this issue only happens to me outside i have done the following...

Removed -

- Dramatic Clouds

- Etherial Auroras

- HQLODS

- Footprints

 

Replaced -

SFO Regular for SFO Basic

 

Doing this has helped ALOT!!! The grass loads up as it is needed, all textures load quickly and responsively. I still get the odd split second twitch every now and then but thats expected with such a large mod list. (Most likely just huge level lists and all the extra NPC's added.

The games latency has increased alot too.....as there are no longer any stutters and just a couple of twtches....the max values are only about 150ms. Still a tad high i know....but the averages are all 30~50ms.

 

I suppose i could still do with removing a few mods. Over 400 in mod organizer and over 300 esp's inc. the patches (That get merged before gameplay) only 210 active.

Im inclined to say that it was probably Dramatic clouds that was causing my issue. Because -

 

- It only happened outdoors

- It was not a script issue

- The problem was not hardware related

- It was simply the game taking too long to load textures after LODs. LODs were visible, but when getting closer the game would take far far FAR too long to update with the correct texture files...resulting in non-existent grass, and other textures being just LODs even when stood right next to the object.

What did you do with footprints? I have a similar issue.


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#6 7hr08ik

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 03:08 AM

I removed footprints.....deleted it.

 

But as it turns out, i was wrong, after a good hour of actual gameplay i started getting the issue right back...From what i can tell its just a windows 8.1 issue.

 

From what i can gather windows 8.1 has either a problem, or a feature with memory managment. This causes the game to stutter when its trying to allocate new memory blocks. This explains why the game runs perfectly in vanilla but struggles in modded. The vanilla game, very rarely needs to use extra memory blocks above the standard 2GB. But a modded skyrim continuously needs extra RAM, hence the need for the new SKSE patch.

 

When i wass running a more heavily modded game under windows 7, i was using between 3.5~4.5GB RAM. And it would frequently jump to atleast 6GB. But under windows 8.1, the game never goes above 4GB, hardly every goes above 3GB. So in my mind, when the game is trying to allocate more memory blocks, windows isn't handling that very well at all. And hence the stuttering, even though script latency as awesome, and framrates couldn't be better.

 

HOWEVER

 

The upcomming Windows 8.1 Update 1, is apparently going to fix ALOT fo the memory issues and bring Win8.1 to the top of the pedistal when it comes to OS speed and performance. It's not officially released until april 8th, but there is a leak of the official patch here - https://forums.mydig...ll=1#post882751

 

It was pu tup onto microsoft servers for dev's, but the comunity got a hold of it, and copied it to MEGA. So im going to try and install that. See wheat happens. If not im going to have to Re-install windows 7.


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#7 7hr08ik

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 04:02 AM

Nope!!!!

 

Still nto working. I'm gonna have to revert to windows 7


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#8 phazer11

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 08:11 PM

Or maybe just plain Windows 8...



#9 Neovalen

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 12:25 PM

I'm running 8.1 and no issues... hrm. Was a clean 8.1 install from DVD though. Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
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#10 7hr08ik

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 03:18 PM

I've Installed Windows 8.1 from the DVD 3 times.

 

And everytime, i get issues. I cant explain why, but it happens......According to microsoft compatibility site Skyrim isnt actually officially supported..So im guessing it must be driver thing.....THats the only reason why some people have problems and some dont.

 

Anyways, im back on Win 7 now. I might go back to Win 8 in a few months, after the update 1 has been released. But i just couldnt figure t out. My system is more than capable, my mod order was reduced by about 20% and i just got continuous load stutter....in and outdoors


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#11 7hr08ik

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 04:33 PM

@Neo

I dont suppose in all of your mod testing and playing you've come accross any mods that increase load times? Most of my load order is from SR:LE but im using a few extra's aswell. If i can i'd love to get it sorted out so i can go back to Win 8.1. I actually quite like it, but Skyrim is a game changer for me.

 

I've already tried lowering the number of texture mods im using. Tweaking the SKSE mem settings more. Taking out population mods. But none seem to work. Perhaps one of the script heavy mods? But which one?


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#12 7hr08ik

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 05:18 PM

OK Not impressed....

 

After spending all day re-installing windows 7. I am still getting the problem. Not as bad but it is still there!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

So i might aswell go back to windows 8.1. And start running through my mods. If Neo is not having any issues with Win 8.1 then its fair to say that the mods from SR:LE are safe to use. So i need to start the long process of going through the mods i have added ontop of that and finnd out which ones are causing my load lag.


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#13 7hr08ik

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 02:34 PM

I GOT IT WOKRING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

From sheer strength of will and outright autistic determination i managed to get everything working beautifully well under windows 8.1.

 

Firstly i realised that i hadn't actually installed the accidentally released "Update 1" i had installed the early released BETA for update 1. But microsoft cocked up again this week and "accidentally" put the update 1 on their servers again. I maged to get hold of it. Installed it and my entire PC runs ALOT smoother now. It really is great.

 

Anyway.....Skyrim.....I ran my game and everything is going amazingly well.....no stutters at all. My RAM usage is less than on windows 7 but higher than it was when i was getting cock ups. Avg 4.5~5GB, and ~45fps. Im running most of SR:LE and a few extra mods that add more more more NPCs.

 

I also removed the Timescale tweak in wryebash. We know its bad to go below 10 as it causes script mess, and quest mishmashes. I figure with my extensive mod list, going below vanilla has probably caused a few issues.

 

I am still getting sluggish loading of items/trees/grass outdoors when i speedmult test it, but when running about at normal speeds it seems to be ok. The only other thing to do is spend weeks reinstalling ALL mods and games and progs, and testing all manner of combinations. Im not going to do that.

 

Anyways, to summerize-

 

-Timescale is on vanilla

-Windows 8.1 works! Just dont use BETA updates, and install SLOWLY.


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#14 MadWizard25

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Posted 22 March 2014 - 10:56 AM

Glad to hear you solved the problem. I just clean installed windows 8.1, so thank you very much about the update 1 info. Had no idea. Now i have it installed as well :)


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