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#46 thommaal

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Posted 26 April 2014 - 04:51 AM

(..) I don't see those conflicts you are talking about? All conflicts SHOULD be taken care of but if you spot any please let me know. Some script conflicts exists between some mods but these are the brawl bug patch and doesn't matter. Haven't tried LOOT but I agree, growing tired of BOSS. I have a lot BOSS masterlist overrides.

When I built my compatibility patch, I saw that some effects were changed by more than one of the mods you suggested. But I need to take another look into TES5Edit to see if "conflict" is an appropriate description. Btw, I shamelessly stole a couple of your patches to cut some work. And, stupidly, I didn't document a couple of additional changes that might interest you. Oh well, I'm only experimenting anyway at the moment. Give LOOT a try. I was sceptical at first but the results are promising and already better than BOSS almost every time.

 

 

ADDED: Since I am using your recommendations with this profile, a sneaky character seemed appropriate. But now, I am displeased with the ENBs that are usually in my focus: Seasons of Skyrim and Skylight are much too .. friendly and nice; Vividian's vanilla colour scheme is better but still ..

 

 

ADDED 2: Sigh, a question: Is it possible to drop ERSO's deleveler onto an ongoing game? I want to take a look at some of the areas that are starting points for Another Life with a character that isn't killed by a bored skeever.


Edited by thommaal, 26 April 2014 - 05:24 AM.

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#47 dreadflopp

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Posted 26 April 2014 - 09:17 AM

I am using vividian atm. Skyfall is also very good I think. Very vanilla with fixed lighting. It should be ok to drop the deleveler. I guess creatures already spawned will still be around.
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#48 MadWizard25

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Posted 26 April 2014 - 11:27 AM

I am using vividian atm. Skyfall is also very good I think. Very vanilla with fixed lighting. It should be ok to drop the deleveler. I guess creatures already spawned will still be around.

 

You can always wait 31 days in a decoupled interior like a player house or testing hall.

 

If you use SIC there is also an option to reset cells/ spawns.


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#49 thommaal

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Posted 26 April 2014 - 02:15 PM

I am using vividian atm. (..)

I want to try out some ENBs I had dismissed earlier in favour of the CoT-adapted ones. "Natural Lighting and Atmospherics for ENB" looks great, for example. But I have a surprisingly hard time to let go of "Gameplay Performance ENB"; it improves the visuals vanilla-style while keeping the game smooth even in demanding situations. Its name is NOT false advertising. And it looks like Scrabbulor is willing to work on it some more.  

 

You can always wait 31 days in a decoupled interior like a player house or testing hall.

 

If you use SIC there is also an option to reset cells/ spawns.

True. And since I am doing this for some tests there is no reason to hesitate beyond the ingrained "never change a running system" - which I don't adhere to strictly anyway.

 

Edited to add the correct links.


Edited by thommaal, 26 April 2014 - 04:11 PM.

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#50 dreadflopp

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 02:19 PM

Updated patches because of Consistent older people and Expanded towns and cities updates. Some USKP forwarding. Following patches are updated:

Morrowloot - ERSO 09 patch.esp
ERSO 09 protected USKP - STEP patch.esp
ERSO 09 protected USKP - REGS patch.esp

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#51 dreadflopp

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Posted 27 April 2014 - 02:50 PM

A quick post about the deleveled ancounter zones. There are problems and benefits from both a leveled skyrim and an unleveled skyrim. Some discussion about that here: https://forum.step-p...recommendation/

If you feel that you do not want a deleveled skyrim but still want to use this pack there is no problem with that, just leave out ERSO 8 to have the encounter zones leveled. Leave out ERSO 8.1 and ERSO 8.2 to have dragonborn and dawnguard bosses leveled. Leave out ERSO 9 to have all NPC's and enemies leveled.


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#52 Garfink

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 02:13 AM

Just an update on my own modding endeavors that maybe relevant to your pack dreadflopp.  Since I am too in love with the SkyRe Perk Tree, I don't know if I can migrate to SPERG anytime soon.  (you can sell me on it though!).  I think this is very relevant to your pack, as you aren't relying on Requiem for every change.

 

So here it goes:

 

As you know I am trying out HLE hardcore module.  I have discovered something awful last night...  I run asis with a relative low spawn rate, 0-50 1-200 2-50 3-10 and I have the "reduce indoor spawns" turned on in the MCM.  I also have random encounter running and that adds spawn points and I left that at default settings.  Well... its still TOO many spawns with HLE hardcore.  First thing:  Had to set it at Novice difficulty (equivalent to adept in vanilla), with ASIS AI, Perk, Spells, revenge of the enemy, NPC Enchantment Fix, HLE hardcore, the game has indeed become an even playing field.  Monsters are tough, but not unbeatable... unless you get totally swamped in a tight space.  Trust me, I play pretty darn well.  ASIS and random encounters seem to interact making it harder to adjust spawn rates.  

 

In Sarthaal, admittedly my current illusionist character isn't well equip against undead (most of the illusion spells just don't work on them), I kept coming up against very large >5-10 draugr mods, some below, some at my level and some higher, I can see HLE hardcore at work, the average enemy level is level closer to the character now and I like it.  But >5-10 draugr in room after room that are so high level is just too much!  Even 2-3 is a tough fight even with a follower and summons.  Very nice.  

 

My recommendation with this setup is to turn off ASIS increase spawn in the MCM and leave the extra spawning to Random Encounter.  

What happens I think is ASIS works for EVERY spawn point and in Random Encounter you can set the number of spawns per Random Encounter added Spawn point.  So if ASIS spawns 2 extra spawns, in a room with 3 spawning draugr (pretty usual), you could end up with 6 draugr and if Random Encounter has a spawn point in that room and was set to spawn 3 draugr to, you can get another 6 draugr with asis running in the background too....  that is potentially 12 draugr with an average of 6!!  I haven't even started to talk about draugr in adjacent rooms being alerted to your battle!!  Way too much!!  

 

So I recommend users to disable ASIS Spawns altogether and adjust Random Encounters to spawn ONLY 1 or maximum 2 of any single creature type.  Outdoor creatures can be adjusted to more to your liking.  You could dispense with Random Encounters of course, but I like the extra spawn points around Skyrim, makes the world less empty and monsters where you don't expect them to be.

 

Having said all this, HLE Hardcore is a welcome addition to my game, in combo with the other mods I mention that even the AI-player playing field, there is less need for huge mobs to balance the game or increasing in-game difficulty turning the monsters in to health-sinks.  The game makes sense now, an arrow from a even level creature can take you down to your knees and a couple of unprotected swipes from a draugr can bring you close to death.  The draugr that are higher level to you will kill you very quick if you are complacent.

 

I forgot to mention that I have Apocalypse spells installed so the monsters are armed with these spells as well.  Just to round off:  I also have SIC and OBIS and Scarcity (loot 8x merchant 6x) and Morrowloot and many of the usual armor/weapon mods installed.

 

Like our other conversation:  After playing more I am finding Scarcity and Morrowloot combined is SUPER, I don't think the other armor and weapon mods added to the level list (contaminating Morrowloot's) is a real problem in game.  I have discovered a super tight economy.  Loot is super Scarce and you'll need to find Morrowloot's loot to make things work.  I am still using some dumb Fire Enchanted Cyrodillic shortsword and an unenchanted elven longsword I found at around level 15 for God sakes!  At level 24 with a slow uncapper ini progression (which means I have had more time to acquire loot), I have acquired less than 10000 gp, which is NOTHING in the new economy.  With my Trade and Barter Settings and being Thane of Whiterun, things are reasonably priced (cheap actually) in Whiterun, but everywhere else its terrible and you'll need them barter potions.  BUT the economy isn't so bad that I can't afford a house and a horse,  I am able to buy all the illusion/conjuration spells I wanted so it isn't silly and deviate too far from vanilla.  I would probably increase Merchant loot rarity to 4x, as the merchants have so very little sell it is funny.  I have more stuff to sell than they do!  

 

Hope that helps, I would love to be accredited for anything Skyrim...  as I can't write a mod or make a pack of my own for my life!  Ask any questions you like and suggestions to try out for testing.  


Edited by Garfink, 29 April 2014 - 02:28 AM.

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#53 dreadflopp

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 03:20 AM

I too think its relevant. Having some plans but it'll have to wait a few days. Real life stuff. I also updated MO and messed up my install order (user error) so that'll have to be fixed first.

For the guide, I'm thinking of ditching ACE just to have fewer patches to make and neither I or Nicopad uses it. Haven't heard from Nicopad in a while so I don't know how active he is. I'm sure he'll be back soon. Either way, he's the one that uses SPERG. I don't. SPERG don't need any patches though so either way we'll keep it as an option. I use TTR Skill Overhaul https://sites.google...-skill-overhaul which is like a fixed/extended vanilla. I really like it. I also use kryptopyrs mods but they are not better, just different. TTR has one sneak aspect that I like over kryptopyrs, it has a perk that buffs the backstab multiplier for knifes further than the one for 1h weapons.

 

When all is sorted out I'll try the mods you recommended. I'll take a closer look at revenge of the enemy. Nicopad recommended this for me too. I just want to make sure that all new perks/abilities for enemies are good and not immersion-breaking. High level enemies looks good if you don't use unleveled encounter zones. I'm thinking of playing without that too but keeping it in the guide as it is modular/optional without any patching. Isn't it better to play HLE without the harcore module if you have to play the game on easier difficulty levels? Will check radiance, think it looks good. ASIS may be an alternative to ERSO 9 (the NPC mod of ERSO). ERSO 9 is the least compatible part of ERSO and needs much patching. Will check NPC enhancement fix, don't know what it does. Will probably make a morrowloot patch for HLE. Is the SIC version needed? As for OBIS, I'd like to use it but not unpatched as it is now.

For the economy I just have to trust you in this since I don't have time to play as myuch as I'd want too but it looks good with scarcity, will probably use it.

Is random encounters better than increased encounters with ASIS? Whats the difference?

I'm very thankfull for you wanting to test mods since I don't have time for it atm. Thanks!


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#54 Garfink

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 05:10 AM

HLE Hardcore is my answer to the alternative to deleveling, you can of course use it whilst using an encounter delevel mod.  I think the vanilla adept setting where you do 100% damage and so do the enemy (i.e fair) is WAY too easy, especially when NPCs spawn on average lower level than you.  I can win with any character and most fights are just a walk in the park.  Hardcore doesn't change anything but just make the "leveling" fair for the monsters and makes every dungeon so much more fun.  I think it should be about fun.  Too easy is no fun.  You can use SkyTweak to set the difficulty slider back to default so people can choose a real Novice level if they want to, so that shouldn't be of any concern.  You can of course patch it too back to default difficulty scaling I guess.

 

NPC enchantment fix simply allow NPCs to use all the enchanted gear they happen to have on them.  In vanilla only certain enchantments work for the NPCs, so it isn't fair.  This just fixes it.  No patching required so this is a no brainer insertion.

 

Radiance is sort of like Skyrim Cutting Room, adds encounters to the outside world, pretty seemlessly and without scripts.  I've been using it for the longest time.  Extended Encounters does something similar, but I am not so sure about some of the encounters, there is ONE encounter that has the Vigilants fighting off some Daedras, you can't loot the armor so its not bad (you can harvest their hearts though, but since daedra hearts are almost impossible come by for alchemists, in super scarce world, its not game changing.), but it can happen a touch too often to suspend disbelief.

 

SIC version is needed if you use SIC!  SIC already adds so much more variety to the creatures at all levels but with HLE support its even better.  Very lore friendly.  I like it.

 

As for the economy, I will keep you up to date with any further findings and adjustments I make.  So far so good, I think it still probably needs some minor tweaks like increasing merchant items for sale and maybe some minor trade & barter tweaks, like how much gold the vendors should have, but my suggestion so far is very close to the correct ball park.  I am just concerned that its a little too Scarce.  But we'll see.

 

Random encounter is different from ASIS, it adds spawn points all over Skyrim, these function like vanilla spawn points so ASIS will affect it.  BUT:  Random encounter (RE) can control its own spawn point spawning rates and is customizible via MCM, changing the spawn rates within the RE MCM doesn't affect vanilla spawn points though, so you need ASIS for that.  So far I have found with the increase AI fairness, there is no need for extra spawns of ASIS, just a few smattering of spawns from RE is enough to add more without adding too much more.  Another reason for installing SIC is it too installs its own unique spawn points and this will further encounters, without needing all these other encounter mods like populated series.  

 

I highly recommend you read this https://sites.google...ecreatures/home to get a handle on all the options for SIC and HLE.  Its too bad not all the MCM options are documented in much detail, like the difficult settings.  I currently have extended stats and armor, I might turn off the armor as it could be making the enemies a little too resistant to damage, currently I am needing 3-5 power dual-wield attacks to take down an even/slightly higher level spawn and I think that is a little to much, 2.5 should be enough, so I will be trying that out tonight.  With HLE hardcore you don't need extended damage, as you will get knocked about enough as it is.

 

The next adjustment is dragons... I don't like the expert setting in deadly dragon, dragons have a touch too much health compared to vanilla.  So I will be manually adjusting these settings as I go.  I am using dragon combat overhaul also.  

 

(BTW, I don't use much of REG, only all the bits that don't need patches, I am not a huge fan of ETaC myself, its a good implementation and I see why people like it, like dawn of series, but I am not in for adding bits (especially such large bits) to Skyrim that serves no function but aesthetics, like the market stalls outside whiterun, you'll never buy anything from them but they just take up space, they serve no quest function either, but the quests I like very much, BUT for example since I don't use the patches I can't use Aurora Village with Moon and Star say... no biggie.  Moon and Star is so much better anyway.  )


Edited by Garfink, 29 April 2014 - 05:52 AM.

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#55 dreadflopp

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 06:15 AM

That makes sense about HLE hardcore module. Thanks for the link. Eyed through it. I currently use SIC. Since it already adds spawn points maybe random encounters isn't needed? About the sic version of HLE. I asked because the HLE installer said its already compatible with sic and that the HLE:sic version is only needed for an armor added by sic. Do you know anything about that? More reports about spawns etc is appreciated ☺ As for dragons we choose enhanced mighty dragons over deadly dragon just because it has an unleveled option. But I know DD is more popular and it might be better? I know it has an option that only alters vanilla dragons and doesn't add any new, if one prefers that. About DCO, I read that it is script heavy and haven't tried it for that reason. Do you have any issues? Another question, do you use any combat mod, like duel? You should check out the new uncapper .ini I did a few days ago, it is in the pack. Feedback appreciated. You should also check ERSO 18 and 29. Link to Erkeils ERSO page in the pack. Manual install of ERSO is recommended if you updated Mod organizer.
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#56 Garfink

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 07:07 AM

I have tried all 3 dragon mods, Deadly Dragon is great because you can adjust the vanilla dragons, all the other monster mods don't touch the dragons because of its existence, so if you want to make adjustments, this is the mod to go to.  I have been using DCO for a long time, I've had no issues with the scripts, apart from that "stalking" dead dragon after you kill one.  Oddly if you install ALL three mods DD, DCO and ERSO one, these dragons disappear.  Just an observation.

 

I love the dragons introduced in DCO, they are better than the ERSO ones and are more scaled to your level, with ERSO, they are either too easy or too tough depending which nightmare level you choose.  I found that I have to install progressively tougher dragons as I level up, which is a little disturbing.  Never had an issue with DCO, feels vanilla, apart from all the awesome powers the dragons have.  

 

You can use DD with either/or/both, so you can adjust things.  Also the protect essentials option in DD is nice sub-mod to have running.

 

Speaking of scripts....  DCO with wet-cold, frostfall, EBT, footprint, DSI, Duel V7 etc. (script heavy mods), might cause issues.  Now that I have uninstalled 3 of these, I am having NO issues ANYWHERE.  But could be a problem with people using STEP or Extended Step and definitely SR.  

 

I have used Duel for the LONGEST time.  I love both Duel 5 and Duel 7 (not the latest one with the questionable archery changes), they make the use of the stamina bar of all the combat mods.  I am currently using SkyRe Combat module, just because I haven't used for awhile and I was trying to flesh out my final scripting load issues and it is OKAY, just a little too easy on the stamina in my opinion.  It isn't very often I run out and only in long long fights.   In duel its a real concern, especially if you power attack and block.  Duel 7 is a lot more "real" or "less forgiving" in my estimation, Duel 5 is great too.  

 

Now that all my CTDs are gone, I will definitely go back to Duel in my next play thru.

 

I will check out you uncapper.ini too.  Standby there.

 

As for HLE, probably best to ask the horse that wrote the mod, I have used both and there weren't obvious differences.  I just noted that the SIC version is newer and since I use SIC I use that, but it only comes in one version so it maybe an issue and also its unlikely to be updated any time soon either, but neither is SIC I guess.  

 

I am pretty sure SIC introduced spawn points are different and under its own control, and so is random encounters, so there is no overlap.  I say use both.  I like that random encounters allow you to make a lot of changes on the fly and the difficult adjustments (the specific ones) apply to ALL spawns.  Its ASIS spawns I can live with out.


Edited by Garfink, 29 April 2014 - 07:10 AM.

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#57 thommaal

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 08:45 AM

Garfink, No Combat Boundaries and Unofficial Encounter Zone Patch might add even more spice to your settings.

 

Do you, by any chance, know if the radiance.esp included in ERSO differs from the original one in any serious way?

 

Concerning spawn points by ASIS and Random Encounters: I sometimes had freezes with the ASIS spawns and they vanished when I used RE instead.


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#58 dreadflopp

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 08:48 AM

Random encounters+sic without asis spawns sounds good. And deadly dragons over mighty dragons. I'll try leveled worlds as you suggested in my next playthrough. Thinking of how to reflect this in the guide. I don't think nicopad likes the idea of a leveled world so I believe we will have two paths in the guide. Of course you will get credit for your work. It'll take some time for me to add this to the guide. As for scripts I removed ebt and footprints.
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#59 dreadflopp

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 09:01 AM

Garfink, No Combat Boundaries and Unofficial Encounter Zone Patch might add even more spice to your settings.

There is also a plugin from yash that removes combat boundaries. Yash is in the guide but the no combat boundaries plugin is not compatible with unleveled encounter zones. This can easily be fixed with an automated script which adds the no combat boundaries flag to the unleveled encounter plugin. I haven't succeeded yet though...otherwise this would be in the guide. CJ is the one that told me about this script (and even sent me a "combined" plugin) so I should probably ask him about how to do it.

Edited by dreadflopp, 29 April 2014 - 09:03 AM.

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#60 thommaal

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Posted 29 April 2014 - 09:05 AM

That question was asked in a post and the author of the mod, fireundubh, added this script as an answer:

{  New script template, only shows processed records  Assigning any nonzero value to Result will terminate script}unit userscript;function Initialize: integer;begin  Result := 0;end;// called for every record selected in xEditfunction Process(e: IInterface): integer;begin  Result := 0;  // comment this out if you don't want those messages  AddMessage('Processing: ' + FullPath(e));  // processing code goes here  SetElementNativeValues(e, 'DATAFlags', GetElementNativeValues(e, 'DATAFlags') or 4);end;// Called after processing// You can remove it if script doesn't require finalization codefunction Finalize: integer;begin  Result := 0;end;end.

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