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#76 Gekko64

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 10:14 AM

no combat boundaries is fantastic, thanks for mentioning it. check out this one also :) https://www.nexusmod...im/mods/50902/?


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#77 Garfink

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 12:08 PM

Diary of 1/May/2014

 

1:00am

 

Tested out populated forts and it was definitely a serious challenge, I was level 25 and after dying about 4 times, I manage to kill all the bandits and checked their stats and noted 6 level 25 bandits and 3 level 19 bandits and 1 level 1 bandit.  Most of the bandits were from populated forts.

 

The open spaces make it possible to win, had to use fury to turn them against each other, there were a couple of dual wielders that could one shot me and an archer that can as well.  

 

If I can get the drop on any one of them with my dual wield, I can two to three shot most of them as well.  sort of a fair fight, apart from the fact they out numbered me and my follower and my summon.  Fun.  I then went into a small inn like building and there were 2 in there and a brave stupid rush in there swords swinging got me killed very quickly, but a calculated fight won easily.  Seems good so far... A random fort fight was EPIC.  I am a little concerned that there were at least 3 bandits that could one-shot me...  could be a problem.  Noted that all NPC from Populated forts were level 25.

 

1:30am

 

Problem:  Enter the prison of the fort (dunstead) and got murdered, one shot by a dual wielder that I had NO chance against, especally in a tight space, it was a level 25 bandit, same level as me.  Game is still too difficult.  More adjustments needed.

 

2:30am

 

Here is my fix for the problem, seems to be just right to prevent frustration.  Install SkyTweak and change the difficult settings of Novice.  The default setting of HLE hardcore is:

 

Damage Dealt 1.00  Damage Taken 1.00

 

Change this to:  DD 1.25 and DT 0.75   (A simple fix that just works)

 

While you are at it:  Go to NPC and change Follower Catch Up to 1.0.  

This will increase the speed your follow will catch up when they fall behind.  This is to make up for the stupid AI pathing that often occurs.  As a conjurer, this makes your reanimate undead almost useless as they are never there when you need them.

 

3:30am

 

Good news played another hour and settings seems good.  Not too hard and far from easy and the battles seem realistically deadly.  I will do more testing tomorrow.  Then I will adjust the dragons.  Need to see more different types of enemies before making final judgement.

 

9:40am

 

Just installed Northern Encounters and Extras, its a mod I've always like the sound of and just never got around to it, while I was fighting CTDs.  Also installed the NPC water AI mod, no boundary and the horse stamina mod (I merged these together.)

 

3:00PM

 

Many hours later and at level 29, I have since increased the Damage Taken and Damage Dealt back to 1 and 1.  I have discovered the difficult problem I was having was due to Resplendent Racials, it would give certain races superpowers and the NPCs can close the distance that would normally take 5 secs in an instant!  Redguard have this whirling blade skill that make dual wielders deadly, this may actually stack with something else as well... I am not sure...  but in any case by deactivating NPC resplendent racial powers, I am able bring the level back to 1:1 fairness. 

 

I am finding having no ASIS increase spawns means small mobs and that is making it slightly easy, I will probably increase chances of 1 extra spawn now and see if that makes it a little tougher.

 

5:00pm

 

Found and fixed a bug with the asis ini for perks, noticed that the game is well balance except for dual wielders seem to have SUPER speed, takes them an instant to complete a whirling power attack which is silly, so I added a perk mod exclusion to prevent it.  The problem is with the dual flurry perk, just add flurry to the ASIS perk exclusion to fix it.  Appears the flurry perks stack and is additive.

 

5:30pm

 

Uninstalled that no boundary mod, I have discovered that it breaks quests that require you to kill bandit chiefs, IF the bandit chief or even other NPCs follows you OUTSIDE where they are suppose to die, the area is not considered cleared.  Stupid but true.  oh well.  Why is it I am the one to have to find these things out the hard way!  Also noted that the horse stamina mod looses its MCM menu when merged with other esps, but appears to work fine otherwise.  


Edited by Garfink, 01 May 2014 - 05:44 AM.

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#78 thommaal

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 01:05 PM

This isn't final by any stretch.  Lets call this:

 

Garfink's Skyrim Rebalance Project (GSRP) V 0.6 Beta

Thanks for all the added info.

 

SkyTweaks is a great addition to any mod list. And it looks like its mod tracking does indeed work as intended. So far, every change to other mods was correctly identified and added to the settings. Very nice. The morrowloot/scarcity/trade & barter economy is a tough one; good for game-play but it puts some additional strain on my suspension of disbelief when I take away too many goods from vendors and up the prices so high that no one but a select few should be able to afford anything at all beyond the basics.

 

The law of supply and demand has never been relevant in Skyrim, of course, but I don't want to break it too much, which means: scarcity of loot is key while the vendors still need enough quality items to make it plausible that they offer relatively little in return. But too little loot leads to a game-play that focuses more on production of goods -- which isn't exciting at all, most of the times. I'd rather go out in the woods than kneel before a tanning rack all day. Ah, the devil in the details.

 

no combat boundaries is fantastic, thanks for mentioning it. check out this one also :) https://www.nexusmod...im/mods/50902/?

Interesting. That mod gives AI adversaries another advantage when Frostfall is installed, since they don't have to deal with the repercussions of getting wet in icy conditions. I am definitely going to try it out to see what the law of unintended consequences will do to my game. Skytest ... yes, hmmm. I like the idea (after all, my game-play is a combination of combat and wilderness survival) but it adds lots of spawn points and plenty of ever active scripts. I have already cut out the STEP/SRLE effect mods and the result during the few skirmishes I faced since then is positive: the game has been rock solid. But I agree that the vanilla animals are disappointing and a script-light mod that improves behaviour without adding spawn points would be welcome.

 

Diary of 1/May/2014

(..)

Problem:  Enter the prison of the fort (dunstead) and got murdered, one shot by a dual wielder that I had NO chance against, especally in a tight space, it was a level 25 bandit, same level as me.  Game is still too difficult.  More adjustments needed.

I hear you.

 


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#79 Gekko64

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 06:08 PM

actually I'm pretty sure skytest does not add any scripts. it does add lots of spawns which are of course taxing on the CPU, but there's a lite version without them if you want called Realistic Animal Behaviour. I've used it for a good while and it works great, I'd certainly recommend it if you want smarter fauna but are worried about too many spawns :)


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#80 Garfink

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 08:27 PM

Thanks for all the added info.

 

The morrowloot/scarcity/trade & barter economy is a tough one; good for game-play but it puts some additional strain on my suspension of disbelief when I take away too many goods from vendors and up the prices so high that no one but a select few should be able to afford anything at all beyond the basics.

 

The law of supply and demand has never been relevant in Skyrim, of course, but I don't want to break it too much, which means: scarcity of loot is key while the vendors still need enough quality items to make it plausible that they offer relatively little in return. But too little loot leads to a game-play that focuses more on production of goods -- which isn't exciting at all, most of the times. I'd rather go out in the woods than kneel before a tanning rack all day. Ah, the devil in the details.

 

Interesting. That mod gives AI adversaries another advantage when Frostfall is installed, since they don't have to deal with the repercussions of getting wet in icy conditions. I am definitely going to try it out to see what the law of unintended consequences will do to my game. Skytest ... yes, hmmm. I like the idea (after all, my game-play is a combination of combat and wilderness survival) but it adds lots of spawn points and plenty of ever active scripts. I have already cut out the STEP/SRLE effect mods and the result during the few skirmishes I faced since then is positive: the game has been rock solid. But I agree that the vanilla animals are disappointing and a script-light mod that improves behaviour without adding spawn points would be welcome.

 

I hear you.

There is still a bit more balancing with the loot mods BUT I beg to differ, you will find that once you have completed quests, join factions the prices actually drop markedly for the player with the setup.  A Spell that was 1100 gp can be gotten at 700 gp.  Rewards for questing.  You just need to stick with it a little.  The economy does and must circle around the player as a focus or else its broke.  You can keep the merchants the same as vanilla and kept the vendor scacity to 0 or 2x so they are better stocked.  Morrowloot is essential as the delevel loot system unlike the delevel encounter system works as intended, the only problem is mod support.  

 

I disagree with your point about the game now focuses on enchantment and smithing.  The changes actually make those skills worthwhile.  Also has the side effect of increasing the difficult of the game because you are less likely to find uber equipment everywhere.  The point was to even the playing field between you the hero and the monsters and whilst you still have better equipment overall (as you should being the dragonborn hero adventurer), you aren't miles above the NPCs now.  It also means rare loot finds are SO much more satisfying.  You need to get out of what you are used to with the vanilla loot system, we were all spoiled!

 

actually I'm pretty sure skytest does not add any scripts. it does add lots of spawns which are of course taxing on the CPU, but there's a lite version without them if you want called Realistic Animal Behaviour. I've used it for a good while and it works great, I'd certainly recommend it if you want smarter fauna but are worried about too many spawns :)

That's an interesting mod, may well give it a try!  Wonder if it supports SIC animals given its age and lack of development?   I have used Skytest for the longest time, and it has always been one of the first mods I uninstall when I am searching for CTD reasons... probably unfairly.  As all my other spawn and non-scripted AI mods are working fine.  Probably will install it again once my testing is near completion as there is a Skytest-SIC compatibility mod.


Edited by Garfink, 30 April 2014 - 08:46 PM.

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#81 Gekko64

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 07:33 AM

skytest integration project has a sic patch available for realisticanimalbehaviour, it's the one called "SIC patch for skytest lite" https://www.nexusmod...yrim/mods/46495 :)


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#82 Garfink

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 12:12 PM

I think I have figured out something with ASIS perks and SkyRe compatibility. I have discovered that Dual Flurry when given to NPCs via ASIS perks is BROKEN, it some how stacks making the NPC's dual wield SUPER fast, making them much much faster than you the player at the same level. Inhumanly fast. 
 
So I added dual flurry PERK blocks in ASIS and that fixed that problem. Great, BUT after further playtesting, I noticed some more in-game oddities. 
 
There were bandits that wielded just ONE weapon in one hand that were one shoting everything, same with some archers. A quick examine of them reveal they weren't using any special gear, I had better equipment and couldn't do the things they could do..... THEN I had a light bulb moment!!!!!
 
It appears SOME if not ALL the perks that you can invest 2 or more perk points in are STACKING somehow when you run ASIS PERKS, making these perks much more powerful than intended! NOT just Dual Flurry which was most obvious because it involved an animation that I could SEE!!
 
Disabling ASIS perks fixes ALL the issues! 
 
Now now... I don't want all the perks disabled! As even with a partial perks given to NPCs they are still much improved. So I am going to edit the ASIS AutomaticPerks.ini file so that it excludes all the problem perks and see if it works.
 
BUT then I noticed in Tes5edit that there are like a million perks that has stacking perks! Not sure how it works and if all the perks that require 2 perk points stack like dual flurry!
 
I am no programmer, so I am not sure what I am looking at or what the problem is. Maybe someone better can look into how SkyRe_Main.esp interacts with ASIS? I know for sure Dual Flurry is being applied to NPCs incorrectly, so that is the clue to begin with, but I suspect its a problem with more of the other perks.
 
I have made this issue known to Dienes.  
 
For now I recommend disabling ASIS perks if you are using Skyrim Redone.  (I guess you are STUFF-ed which ever perk overhaul you use, as SPERG is the same...)  Without ASIS PERKS I am going to have to rebalance EVERYTHING!  ARGGGHHHH.  Oh well, just means more playing I guess.

Edited by Garfink, 01 May 2014 - 12:43 PM.

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#83 Gekko64

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 12:41 PM

nice find mate, I'm sure Dienes will fix that as soon as possible :)


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#84 thaiusmle

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 12:51 PM

If I install full SR:LE with this pack, is there any major conflicts that you guys aware of?
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#85 Garfink

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 04:35 PM

nice find mate, I'm sure Dienes will fix that as soon as possible :)

I am extremely surprised that it wasn't found sooner!  Considering how long ASIS and SkyRe has been out, with many "guides" (even on this site) that recommend combining the two mods!  Goes to show... modders like modding more than playtesting!  

 

I must say, without ASIS perks (and OBIS) the enemies, especially the bandits seem so ... vanilla...

 

I am currently test the game with the following difficulty settings:

 

HLE Hardcore : Gameplay setting Apprentice (equivalent to Expert in vanilla)

Immersive Creatures : Expert and all stats/armor/damage extended

Random Encounters : Hard with stats extended

ASIS increase spawns : 0 spawns 100, 1 spawn 50, 2 spawn 10

 

(ASIS AI, Spells, Apocalypse Spells, Revenge of the Enemies, SkyRe combat module with SkyRe, Resplendent Racials (which is working perfectly))

 

Its near the ballpark... in terms of enemy heal and damage dealing.  BUT you can tell that even with even level enemies, they are missing perks to match you.  Aside from the foremention bugs I am seriously missing ASIS perks.)

 

I might install Duel V7, maybe it will make the combat a little more deadly, especially the archers.  Not sure what effects will uninstalling SkyRe Combat will have on my Save though.  BUT given the mod changes during this character's life, she really needs a new start once I get everything a little more settled.   I am even considering Locational Damage... except it doesn't work very well with melee characters really.   Any suggestions?

 

Its harder to test now that I am level 29 and dual wielding Dawnbreaker with the Pale Blade and wearing Glass Armor, I kill that Thalmor that walks around at Dragon bridge from the Fight against the Thalmor IV and got his Glass Armor which was nicely enchanted, very un-morrowloot like.

 

My short review of Fight against the Thalmor IV:

 

Don't bother.  The level design was long and boring, there is way too much loot even compared with the vanilla game!  it isn't difficult if you don't count the bugs and the fight against monotony.  Story was boring and weak to the point of pointless.  The best part of the mod is the South Dragon Bridge area looks good.  Compared to Moon & Stars there is no comparison!  That quest mod was awesome.  In my next play through and forever, I will be uninstall these 4 mods.  Terribly unpolished. 


Edited by Garfink, 01 May 2014 - 04:58 PM.

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#86 Garfink

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 05:52 PM

Another hour of testing.   Added Duel V7 did the trick.  Pretty close to perfect balance (for level 29 at least.)  I am pretty UBER, dual wield fury with illusions and conjuration and alteration.  Jaree and Capt Haran just murdered me in Broken Oar Grotto in a close fight.  

 

Garfink's Skyrim Rebalanced Project (GSRP) V0.65 Beta

 

Goal: A tighter and more challenging Skyrim, with more diverse options of character building.  Increasing difficulty of combat without making the monsters health-sinks, evening the playing field between the Dragonborn and the NPCs, making the economy and loot much tighter by deleveling loot without making you a beggar.

 

HLE Hardcore : Gameplay setting Apprentice (equivalent to Expert in vanilla)

Immersive Creatures : Expert and all stats/armor/damage extended

Random Encounters : Hard with stats extended

ASIS increase spawns : 0 spawns 100, 1 spawn 50, 2 spawn 5

ASIS AI & Spells & Potions (use the Improved ASIS inis and add draugr to NPC exclusion for spells.)

Apocalypse Spells

Resplendent Racials

Thunderchild - Epic Shouts Package (type: set xxxSPEShoutExpBase to 0

set TC_ExpMultiplier_Global to 4 after character creation)

SkyRe Main Module + Reproccer + Pre/Post Reproccer Fix + custom xml option

SkyRe Standing Stones

Duel Combat V7 

Morrowloot

Scarcity 2x Merchant 6x Loot Rarity

NPC Enchantment Fix

Reduced Gold Rewards of Quest

Deadly Dragon (expert, keep project essential NPCs OFF and use NPCs Protected Redux instead, turn off stagger)

Dragon Combat Overhaul

Complete Crafting Overhaul Remade (load after Morrowloot & remove relev/delev tags)

Revenge of the Enemies

High Level Enemies (non-scaling version, I am using the SIC version but the regular version should work same)

Traps are Dangerous

Trade & Barter -40 buying price  fbartermin 3.5 fbartermax 7.5

Endgame NPC Overhaul

Populated Dungeons Caves Ruins

Populated Forts Towers Places

Radiance

Realistic Room Rentals Lite (use the lite version so it doesn't mess with the tavern lights to ensure compatibility with things like ELE & Relighting Skyrim, these are what I am using)

Better Fast Travel

Extended Encounters

Improved Sneak Detection

Northern Encounters and Extras (load after Random Encounters)

Uncapper

No Level Limit

 

Must create a bash patch

 

Mods NOT to use:  OBIS, aMidian Content Addon, no boundaries (breaks quests).  Armor/weapon mods are okay, install only crafting option and not the options that add it to the level lists.  Low level Armor/weapon mods like those with steel, leather, iron stats, shouldn't break the balance too much, but higher tier items will like glass, orc, daedric & dragon.  So becareful what you install.  Less is MORE.  SkyRe already adds some lore-friendly gear, so there is no need to add more really.  If you don't use SkyRe the loot will even be tighter.  Try not to use more than 1 follower like default, or you will nerf certain perks like Summoning and controlling 2 reanimates and don't use Dual Wield Block either.  I am using simple multiple followers as a follower management tool and maximum compatibility, especially if you're planning to use Interesting NPCs.

 

Quest Mods are okay BUT some mods like Fight for the Thalmor quests will break the economy by providing too much loot.  So when doing non-vanilla quests be judicious and just don't pick up every thing in sight and concentrate on the storyline and the ultimate reward.

 

For those concerned about loot rarity, don't worry about it.  There is still tonnes of it and money though tighter, is still not a major issue and shouldn't bog you down.

 

I use Realistic Needs and Diseases but  you can use iNeeds if you want, I just found RN&D more compatible with everything.  I usually set Frostfall on Hardcore AND increase the rate of getting cold to 1.5.  (I feel that at 1.0, the cold is an irritant but rarely deadly.)  I don't like inventory management, so I just leave the player carry weight to default and even use bandoliers, knapsacks to carry even more.  But if you want a more hardcore RPG experience, then feel free to adjust it.  I recommend SkyTweaks to make all these types of adjustments.

 

If you want an even more hardcore RPG time, I recommend using Hunterborn in combination with Professions.   In the latter mod, adjust the time spent smithing/cooking/tanning etc. much lower than default or you will starve.  These mods that add time to these activities will offset the ease with which food can be found.

 

There are many character builds that may challenge even my mod choices, so to increase difficulty:  adjust ASIS spawns up a little:  0-200 1-100 2-50 reduced indoor spawns selected.  This will make it a lot harder, maybe too hard.  Adjust to your liking.

 

Future:  Further refining (need more playtesting at all levels to fine-tune the game) and updating.  Especially if and when Diene updates ASIS perks to work better with SkyRe.  You can still use the perk module now, but you must add "flurry" "wind" to the PerkExclusionContains in the respective ini file.  Careful there are still some uber bandits even with these additions.

 

If anyone knows how to make compatibility patches, I am all ears.


Edited by Garfink, 01 May 2014 - 06:36 PM.

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#87 Gekko64

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 06:58 PM

thanks for the tip about which perks to exclude! care to explain why you added draugrs to spellexclusions? btw some guy had a question for you on the asis nexus page :D


Edited by Gekko64, 01 May 2014 - 07:08 PM.

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#88 Garfink

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 07:07 PM

Draugr wights just stand there armed with spells they can't cast. No fix as yet, so recommended to exclude them for now.
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#89 Gekko64

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 07:32 PM

good to know. did you already notify the guy who's making the improved inis? seems like something he should add in his next update. 


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#90 dreadflopp

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 12:01 AM

@garfink I'll start adding mods in a few days and make patches where needed. Great work!

If I install full SR:LE with this pack, is there any major conflicts that you guys aware of?

Install only the main file of ELFX if you plan to use REGS. OBIS isn't compatible with morrowloot. Nothing more I can think of but haven't tried.
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