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Master of Disguise (by fireundubh) [Featured by Brodual and G.E.M.S.]

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#16 Aiyen

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Posted 19 August 2014 - 06:19 PM

Well presentation of features is key.. if all you have is something that effectively goes on behind the scenes then nobody is really going to notice it until it is no longer there. 

 

Perhaps adding a "Hey do I know you" or some similar voiced responses as characters are about be discovered or close to it will help. 


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#17 Neovalen

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Posted 19 August 2014 - 06:21 PM

Just play the metal gear detection sound lol... No exclamation points but hey...
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#18 fireundubh

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Posted 19 August 2014 - 07:37 PM

Well presentation of features is key.. if all you have is something that effectively goes on behind the scenes then nobody is really going to notice it until it is no longer there. 

 

Perhaps adding a "Hey do I know you" or some similar voiced responses as characters are about be discovered or close to it will help. 

I tried very early on but I can't figure out how to add vanilla voices to events like that.

 

Just play the metal gear detection sound lol... No exclamation points but hey...

Sadly, this would get me booted from the Nexus so fast. That's the one thing that Nexus does faster than its servers.


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#19 phazer11

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Posted 19 August 2014 - 09:02 PM

What about a poimpk sound. You know which I'm talking about? It shouldn't be too difficult to make. I'm thinking something along the lines of the sound you hear in Mario when the enemies see you. May be a little too cartoony (probably) but it might serve until a fan or something comes up with a better idea (or makes you a new sound).


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#20 redirishlord

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Posted 19 August 2014 - 09:09 PM

I sadly don't have much experience with the Civil War, but is there a standard Charge! or Attack! signal you could leverage?

I notice that my follower produced a war horn and called for a horse with it when I saddle up, maybe that animation and sound could be used by enemies that successfully detect the player (I know Convenient Horses was producing the effect I mention, but maybe the animation is a vanilla asset?).


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#21 phazer11

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Posted 19 August 2014 - 09:18 PM

Finally found the sort of sound. I do think it is too cartoony now I hear it again but it may work for you.

https://youtu.be/WoG...d0k_FR8?t=7m20s


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#22 fireundubh

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Posted 19 August 2014 - 09:46 PM

Finally found the sort of sound. I do think it is too cartoony now I hear it again but it may work for you.

https://youtu.be/WoG...d0k_FR8?t=7m20s

I was thinking of the sound at 0:16 in this track. It's just a matter of simultaneously pressing all of the keys on a piano but it sounds great. Might be too loud for Skyrim though.


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#23 phazer11

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Posted 19 August 2014 - 10:10 PM

Tough choice. I don't know if it's too loud so much as it makes me think I'm about to enter a boss fight.


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#24 redirishlord

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Posted 19 August 2014 - 11:24 PM

As part of my ongoing Forsworn antics I gave the Markarth guard getup a go (armor, helmet, shield & generic guard boots & gloves), it didn't end well.
I entered the Markarth city outskirts keeping a low profile,
Posted Image
alas to no avail. The guards were fooled while I stayed behind them, but their detection range forward seems to be about a bow shot. I was unable to approach within site of the Markarth stables without the gate guard detecting me from on high and challenging me over the price on my head. I'm relatively low level, so my Sneak skill is in the low 40's and my Illusion is the default Breton.


Edited by redirishlord, 19 August 2014 - 11:25 PM.

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#25 Teabag86

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Posted 19 August 2014 - 11:44 PM

As part of my ongoing Forsworn antics I gave the Markarth guard getup a go (armor, helmet, shield & generic guard boots & gloves), it didn't end well. I entered the Markarth city outskirts keeping a low profile

Maybe your horse disguised as a reindeer gave it away! LOL


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#26 redirishlord

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Posted 19 August 2014 - 11:54 PM

I tried on foot as well, walking & running. Staying behind the guards (horsed or not) worked, but detection range made approaching the city gate impossible. I also noticed there are a lot of guards in Markarth (just like I didn't how many motorcycles are on the road before riding one daily), that would make even discreet trips to the city problematic (although this trip would be better termed "screet").

 

Thank Convenient Horses for my pimped out ride (big game hunters tack). I'm wearing Immersive Armors guard collection btw.


Edited by redirishlord, 19 August 2014 - 11:55 PM.

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#27 fireundubh

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 12:09 AM

Were the guards immediately hostile? Or did you see the screen shake before they went hostile?


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#28 kryptopyr

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 06:53 AM

I was thinking of the sound at 0:16 in this track. It's just a matter of simultaneously pressing all of the keys on a piano but it sounds great. Might be too loud for Skyrim though.

I think Dishonored actually uses a sound very similar to that to indicate detection.


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#29 fireundubh

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 04:45 AM

I just watched a Dishonored clip where the player is detected so I could hear that sound.

 

I noticed that the cone of vision was a strict 45 degrees. It's 180 degrees in Master of Disguise, primarily because NPCs can  turn their heads 180 degrees, but I think I'm going to narrow that angle a bit.

 

I also noticed that detection in Dishonored was about time spent in that cone of vision, which makes sense for a game where you're usually sneaking rather than trying to blend in. Still, I liked the fact that you knew what was going to happen if you stayed in that cone of vision. It's all chance in Master of Disguise.

 

I really want to implement detection symbols (they're lightning bolts in Dishonored) that appear around the detecting NPC's head, but I don't think that's possible with Skyrim or SkyUI.

 

I'd probably have to create three mostly transparent meshes and turn them into nonplayable pseudo-"helmets" that get dynamically added to nearby NPCs and which detecting NPCs equip, in sequential order, in an unused slot. I'd also have to reverse engineer EK_RingLimiter so that equipping these "helmets" would be nonintrusive (i.e., actually important things don't get unequipped.)

 

The best I could do is a series of custom shaders, in which case I'd replace the "chance to be detected" dice roll with something that involves colored grades of detection, but I know people hate when mods turn NPCs into different colors. An alternative to shading the whole NPC is to use colored Detect Life effects, which might work but they're a bit slow to fade in/out.

 

Hmm...


Edited by fireundubh, 21 August 2014 - 04:45 AM.

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#30 kryptopyr

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 08:53 AM

I'm not sure the detecting symbols fit Skyrim in the same way they do Dishonored.  I think you'd get a lot of people whinning about the "lack of immersion" and such.  Honestly, though, you'll probably get that even with the sound.  On the other hand, I think having some sort of feedback would probably be useful.

 

I would prefer to see a bit less chance involved in the disguises, though.  I understand the reasoning behind it, but it makes using disguises much less reliable as a strategy and therefore inherently more risky than simply relying on sneak (which certainly isn't guarenteed to be successful, but is at least a fairly consistent mechanic, so you tend to understand and have a pretty good feel for what your character can and cannot get away with).


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