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How serious are Navmesh conflicts?

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#1 retrok

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Posted 30 May 2014 - 09:40 PM

Hey everyone,

 

I did (and I'm still doing) lots of compatibility patches with TES5Edit for my setup, but I always wondered: How problematic are Navmesh conflicts? 

Especially with Interesting NPCs I get many Navmesh conflicts with some small city mods, player houses and some other mods. Is it enough to load the mod I want to win later in my load order?

How can I fix Navmesh conflicts (and how do I find out if I have to)?

 

If anyone could give me some insight into the seriousness of Navmesh conflicts, I would really appreciate it ;)

 


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#2 Kuldebar

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Posted 30 May 2014 - 11:33 PM

Not serious generally until you start adding other mods that refer to the delted navmeshes, then BAM, game over!

 

Basically, one can get away with it until...you can't...when a new record or quest or script calls on something that relies or refers or includes that deleted object or navmesh record. This is what makes such things so insidious, because people will assume everything is working fine and then get waylaid with stability issues.

 

ITM's are easy to fix, even UDR's, but navmesh deletions are generally just bad modding practice.

 

There's a guide to undeleting navmesh records, but it's not what I consider light reading or something I would choose to do for fun.

 

Skyrim] Fixing Navmesh Deletion Using TES5Edit


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#3 retrok

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Posted 31 May 2014 - 12:02 AM

Not serious generally until you start adding other mods that refer to the delted navmeshes, then BAM, game over!

 

Basically, one can get away with it until...you can't...when a new record or quest or script calls on something that relies or refers or includes that deleted object or navmesh record. This is what makes such things so insidious, because people will assume everything is working fine and then get waylaid with stability issues.

 

ITM's are easy to fix, even UDR's, but navmesh deletions are generally just bad modding practice.

 

There's a guide to undeleting navmesh records, but it's not what I consider light reading or something I would choose to do for fun.

 

Skyrim] Fixing Navmesh Deletion Using TES5Edit

 

Thanks a lot for your quick reply!

 

My question was only related to conflicts, I fixed every deleted Navmesh already (or didn't install that mod in the first place) ;)

 

For example, there is a Navmesh conflict between Dawn of Whiterun, Cutting Room Floor and Interesting NPCs I think.

Which one should I load last? What happens if I get the order wrong (if there is a right one)? Nothing, just some minor weirdness or even CTDs?


Edited by retrok, 31 May 2014 - 12:05 AM.

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#4 EssArrBee

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Posted 31 May 2014 - 12:04 AM

Load Cutting Room Floor last since it adds cut content to the game and probably needs to load last for the additional quests.



#5 Kuldebar

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Posted 31 May 2014 - 12:06 AM

Also, if I'm not mistaken CJ has done REGs patches work to fix navmesh issues involving (some?) those mods.


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#6 phryxolydian

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Posted 31 May 2014 - 12:11 AM

Load Cutting Room Floor last since it adds cut content to the game and probably needs to load last for the additional quests.

:huh:LOOT places CRF directly after the last esm on both of my profiles..


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#7 retrok

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Posted 31 May 2014 - 12:11 AM

Also, if I'm not mistaken CJ has done REGs patches work to fix navmesh issues involving (some?) those mods.

 

Yeah I saw those and it's one of the reasons why I ask. I only use few mods which are in the REGS and so most of the patches don't work with my setup (I think so at least).

That's why I wanted to know what happens whithout those patches with multiple conflicting mods when it comes to Navmeshes.


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#8 EssArrBee

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Posted 31 May 2014 - 12:12 AM

:huh:? LOOT places CRF directly after the last esm on both of my profiles..

Step patches?

#9 phryxolydian

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Posted 31 May 2014 - 12:19 AM

Right. And REGS -CRF. And a bunch of others too...

 

Silly me.


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#10 CJ2311

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Posted 31 May 2014 - 01:19 AM

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If there are conflicts between navmeshes that involve deleted navmeshes, as Kuldebar explained, you'll just get CTD after CTD.

Otherwise, it's just that the NPCs will start being confused and may end up teleporting a bit around the place. However if there are doors (or any teleporters) connected to the conflicting navmeshes, that's when **** hits the fan (and the reason why patches are needed), since the NPCs won't be able to use any new door except for the one linked to the last navmesh loaded. Meaning they can't enter the building which will affect their packages and quests.

An example of that would be that if you use a mod that affects Morthal in addition to the quest mod ORS Morthal Pain, a dremora will be stuck in the pond in morthal, unable to get to oblivion when you first load the game. (Needless to say the rest of the quest goes bonkers as well after that.)


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#11 retrok

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Posted 31 May 2014 - 02:01 AM

If there are conflicts between navmeshes that involve deleted navmeshes, as Kuldebar explained, you'll just get CTD after CTD.

Otherwise, it's just that the NPCs will start being confused and may end up teleporting a bit around the place. However if there are doors (or any teleporters) connected to the conflicting navmeshes, that's when **** hits the fan (and the reason why patches are needed), since the NPCs won't be able to use any new door except for the one linked to the last navmesh loaded. Meaning they can't enter the building which will affect their packages and quests.

An example of that would be that if you use a mod that affects Morthal in addition to the quest mod ORS Morthal Pain, a dremora will be stuck in the pond in morthal, unable to get to oblivion when you first load the game. (Needless to say the rest of the quest goes bonkers as well after that.)

Thanks, that's what I was looking for! As I said, deleted Navmeshes aren't a problem in my load order.

 

Is there any tutorial to make a compatiblity patch for conflicting Navmeshes? I have no idea what to look for when I open the conflicts in TES5Edit.

If not, I guess I just hope for the best, they don't seem to be THAT problematic as long as there are no deleted ones.


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#12 Vulgar1

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Posted 31 May 2014 - 02:08 AM

I am havingI also need to brush up on this. I have issues with Moster Wars (yes I know it's not part of step). After cleaning there are still 4 deleted navmeshs. I found this guide which might be the same as the above posted but here you go https://www.iguanado...S5Edit-511.html


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#13 CJ2311

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Posted 31 May 2014 - 02:09 AM

You can't exactly do it in TES5Edit, you need the Creation Kit to do it properly.


Edited by CJ2311, 31 May 2014 - 02:40 AM.

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#14 Vulgar1

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Posted 31 May 2014 - 02:34 AM

Do you mean "can't", because that's what I figured. It's just that the CK is a little out of my wheel house and I don't really know exactly where to start. My setup is pretty massive and was working flawlessly, then I added some more mods. I think if I can just get Monster Wars working properly I'd be golden. Immersive Patrols with Skyrim Immersive Creatures and the Monster Mod and Monster Wars has created a crazy, awesome, insane, (you name it) game world.


Edited by Vulgar1, 31 May 2014 - 02:35 AM.

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#15 retrok

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Posted 31 May 2014 - 02:36 AM

You can exactly do it in TES5Edit, you need the Creation Kit to do it properly.

Yeah I thought so. Altough I made some smaller mods with the CK, I don't I know enough about Navmeshes and the CK to do this properly. I probably just give my current load order a try. Thanks for every answer!


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