Jump to content


Photo

Anti-Aliasing/Anisotropic Filtering not working properly


  • Please log in to reply
109 replies to this topic

#16 torminater

torminater

    Dragon Prince

  • Contributors
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,222 posts

Posted 07 July 2012 - 06:01 AM

Never heard of that. Maybe it's the exception, since Skyrim doesn't offer any settings for TrSSAA but only an ini-setting for TrMSAA... Ok, let's try sth. You start a new game and run through all the stupid opening scene stuff. After you exit the Helgen Dungeon go to the standing stones (should be clear/bright/sunny then) and look at the reflections of the sun on the standing stones and tell me they're not shimmering with your settings...
  • 0

#17 LeetMiniWheat

LeetMiniWheat

    Commander

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 252 posts

Posted 07 July 2012 - 06:16 AM

yes the details shimmer/flicker a bit only when moving. BUT... if you go outside to the grassy area with trees, take a screenshot with TrSSAA on 4x and then with none. even on application controlled there's a HUUUUGE difference. I think this is just one of those games where certain textures don't get MSAA/TrSSAA'd properly. probably the bump mapping is what isn't getting done, because I notice the flickering/shimmering/aliasing on detailed doors too. Edit: in fact, with no transparency supersampling on you can see every single tree leaf and grass blade flicker with aliasing all over, it's horrible. so TrSSAA+App controlled definitely works. but I don't think we're gonna get it perfect.
  • 0

#18 torminater

torminater

    Dragon Prince

  • Contributors
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,222 posts

Posted 07 July 2012 - 06:23 AM

Well that's what I thought. You know I might get paranoid one of these days but there is just no way I'm going to live with artifacting in one of my favorite games when it is absolutely a software issue by it's developpers they could fix if they would put some effort to it.
  • 0

#19 LeetMiniWheat

LeetMiniWheat

    Commander

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 252 posts

Posted 07 July 2012 - 06:32 AM

meh, I wouldn't stress over it too much. It could still be WAY worse. the z-fighting issue is much worse (though I think I have them mostly fixed) on that note, *relaxes with fudge sundae and all problems melt away*
  • 0

#20 torminater

torminater

    Dragon Prince

  • Contributors
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,222 posts

Posted 07 July 2012 - 06:34 AM

oh, how did you fix z-fighting? just curious... ;-)
  • 0

#21 LeetMiniWheat

LeetMiniWheat

    Commander

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 252 posts

Posted 07 July 2012 - 06:54 AM

well, not a *real* fix, just workarounds. I'm mostly using the fix from madwizard's .ini files which are probably the fixes you posted in the other thread, lol it's still annoying bumping into objects and having them go transparent though. (I might test that one setting at 18000 or something instead of 25000)
  • 0

#22 torminater

torminater

    Dragon Prince

  • Contributors
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,222 posts

Posted 07 July 2012 - 07:08 AM

I put everything I know about in this guide here:
https://wiki.step-pr...rlapping_planes
  • 0

#23 LeetMiniWheat

LeetMiniWheat

    Commander

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 252 posts

Posted 07 July 2012 - 07:43 AM

yeah i saw that. BTW I just tried 4x4 supersampling. it does absolutely nothing from what I can tell. and if it did, my fps would probably be like <30, with a lot of games this setting just gets ignored. but sometimes 2x2 or 3x3 works. (didn't test it in Skyrim) Edit1: if you *really* want full screen supersampling, we'd need a different antialiasing compatibility flag. but this will really tank the fps down a lot, i doubt anything higher than 2x2 would be playable at decent framerate Edit2: but if we did somehow get it working, it would probably eliminate the shimmering/flickering on bump mapping. but at great cost to playability
  • 0

#24 stoppingby4now

stoppingby4now

    Sleepy

  • Site Founders
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,281 posts

Posted 07 July 2012 - 05:51 PM

Wow, HDR gets disabled in SLi? WTF?!? do you have a link for that?

and why are you running 4x4 supersampling? that's gonna VERY quickly eat up your VRAM since it has to render the entire screen 4 times your resolution. like for 1080p it has to render at 4320p, which I don't even think SLi can render that far without hitting the pixel clock limit so it might be disabling it altogether when you start the game. and especially if you're using TrSSAA or SGSSAA you shouldn't need anything quite that insane, regular MSAA should catch the stuff that TrSSAA doesn't. (also, SGSSAA adds a full screen blur to everything).

I agree, SSAA + SGSSAA is overkill. SGSSAA is already applying to the entire scene post process, so MSAA is sufficient for AA for some initial cleanup of polygon edges.

However, SGSSAA does not cause blurring of a scene by itself. It always comes down to the game and whether its post processing effects aren't compatible. Skyrim today is very compatible, and I get absolutely no blurring whatsoever.

I also read somewhere that it's best to match MSAA with TrSSAA because TrSSAA gets it's data from the MSAA. so 4x with 4x or 8x with 8x, etc etc. but it's still possible to use more MSAA, just that the TrSSAA won't be quite as accurate at finding the nearest neighboring pixels and such.

Correction. TrSSAA needs to be used with SSAA, and TrMSAA needs to be used with MSAA. That is where they each rely on their repsective data, and using anything than those pairings will not provide the quality you are expecting. But you are right, they should be matched in power.
  • 0

#25 LeetMiniWheat

LeetMiniWheat

    Commander

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 252 posts

Posted 07 July 2012 - 07:33 PM

Please keep in mind that whenever you use SGSSAA you should always match the number of MSAA samples used to the number of SGSSAA samples used. 8xMSAA + 4xSGSSAA will usually have lower quality than 4xMSAA + 4xSGSSAA. This is because SGSSAA gets its sample coordinates from the MSAA samples. So if you have more MSAA samples than SGSSAA samples the SGSSAA samples will not be placed in the ideal locations. Also you cannot have more SGSSAA samples than MSAA samples for the same reason (SGSSAA uses the MSAA sample coordinates).  Even though it uses MSAA sample coordinates using additional coverage samples will reduce the effectiveness of SGSSAA by changing the grid pattern so that the MSAA samples are placed closer to the center of the pixel (which is a less ideal location). This is why I advised 4xMSAA + 4xSGSSAA and not 16xCSAA (4xMSAA + 12 extra coverage samples) + 4xSGSSAA.


there's also settings for LOD Bias depending on TrSSAA/SGSSAA/OGSSAA.

so you may be right about TrSSAA getting it's samples from SSAA, but it looks like SGSSAA uses MSAA for it's samples

Source
  • 0

#26 LeetMiniWheat

LeetMiniWheat

    Commander

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 252 posts

Posted 07 July 2012 - 07:50 PM

BTW I just tested SGSSAA vs TrSSAA, and you're right the SGSSAA doesn't blur in skyrim. and SGSSAA seemed to do a better job, it even reduced the shimmering on bump mapped textures (like the little ring-like things around the blessing stone thingies)
  • 0

#27 stoppingby4now

stoppingby4now

    Sleepy

  • Site Founders
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,281 posts

Posted 07 July 2012 - 08:55 PM

LOD adjustment is also being mis-represented on a lot of websites. You do not always have to adjust it, particularly when using SGSSAA. A lot of it comes down to the compatibility bits being used. Lowering also tends to introduce more texture shimmering. I'm using the Skryim bits provided by the latest drivers, LOD set to 0, and I have an outstanding picture with no texture shimmering.
  • 0

#28 stoppingby4now

stoppingby4now

    Sleepy

  • Site Founders
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,281 posts

Posted 07 July 2012 - 09:07 PM

BTW I just tested SGSSAA vs TrSSAA and you're right the SGSSAA doesn't blur in skyrim. and SGSSAA seemed to do a better job, it even reduced the shimmering on bump mapped textures (like the little ring-like things around the blessing stone thingies)

The thing to keep in mind is that SGSSAA is a form of SSAA, and is applied to the full screen post process, but also doesn't incur the performance hit that pure SSAA does. TrSSAA only works on alphatextures.


  • 0

#29 torminater

torminater

    Dragon Prince

  • Contributors
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,222 posts

Posted 08 July 2012 - 10:05 AM

LOD adjustment is also being mis-represented on a lot of websites. You do not always have to adjust it, particularly when using SGSSAA. A lot of it comes down to the compatibility bits being used. Lowering also tends to introduce more texture shimmering. I'm using the Skryim bits provided by the latest drivers, LOD set to 0, and I have an outstanding picture with no texture shimmering. 

So you don't use any other settings in Nvidia Inspector? Just standard NVidia provided bits?
  • 0

#30 LeetMiniWheat

LeetMiniWheat

    Commander

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 252 posts

Posted 08 July 2012 - 10:48 AM

Definitely notice a big improvement with SGSSAA vs TRSSAA. for example the leather helmet textures and algorian (sp?) Doesn't flicker/shimmer/alias nearly as much Edit: probably butchered the name, but I meant the lizard race. Anyways, I think 8x SGSSAA would fully get rid of ALL aliasing/shimmering (even on the stones and doors) but at a huge performance cost.
  • 0


0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users